Originally posted by MindsetIt's pretty ambiguous, however, but it's been mentioned before, so I'll sum up what the posters are getting at when they say that....
What?
Superman was never shown with a motherbox in that story, however Batman was mentioned as having one at one point, and pretty obviously Barda did too. The scene of Superman fighting Darkseid was after an incalculable but seemingly good amount of time had passed after returning to Earth, Barda[the one with the New God tech] had already left the party, then they take off and hang out in the Fortress and he gives Supergirl a new costume, [it also passed from day, to night, to day again in this span, on panel, from the time Supergirl wakes up from an uncertain amount of KO-age.], and then takes her to the Kent Farm.
But Superman grabbed Darkseid and flew to the sun, defeated him, and flew off into space with Darkseid and then a noticable BOOM, and they were at the Source Wall.
Superman was never depicted in the story with a motherbox, and certainly why would he have one days later?
We all forgot the main point.A thread made with stipulation knowing that otherwise Superman would get the crap beaten outta his kryptonian ribs.Going by stipulations any character with power level under another one can pull out a decent fight or "perhaps" a victory.
Why don't we depower Supes speed and reflexes to peak human/slightly superhuman, strength to Class 30, subsonic flight speed, and enhanced human durability and gave Wolverine kryptonite Claws and subsonic superspeed.I mean come on....
Re: Superman vs Odin (with stipulations)
Originally posted by Mr Master
Take away Superman's known weaknesses (Magic/red-R/Kryptonite)
place both of them on the Sun, or in the Sun (you choose)
the Sun can not be destroyed (that way his source is not cut off)
and no bfr, no matter manipulation on Supes person.vs Odin ...
Who wins?
I choose to place Supes in a red giant, he wont lose strength as per the rules, but he wont gain any. 🙂
Originally posted by MindsetCould be, but as I said, not only was he never depicted getting a motherbox or using one in the story, but the event happened at good amount of time, from at least a day, to several days after their trip to Apokalips, why would he still be carrying it?
writer mistake?
Some think because of this he 'flew' and sort of teleported, others think he actually had a motherbox. Though besides the idea of motherbox usually being needed to make Boom Tubes[besides times Darkseid and such has created them at will], it the latter can't be proven on panel for reasons above.
You're talking about Superman putting DS in the Source Wall, right?Yep.
I've never heard of someone flying fast enough to cause boomtubes, has it ever happened any other time?Not to my knowledge.
Originally posted by kevdudeFirst off, the panel of him doing whatever to Darkseid, both characters are completely blacked out, you can't see for better or worse what he did there... and if he attached it to Darkseid for the feat .. . how did he Boomtube back several panels later?
Superman never created a boomtube, not even in OWAW was he powerful enough to create a boomtube and fly to the Fourth World without a motherbox and he had one on Darkseid after he slammed it on his arm, thats how Superman was able to do what he did to DS...When did fg and quan get banned?
He just happened to be carrying 2 of them to see his mom, days after the trip to Apokalips?
And Quan needed banned a long time ago.
It probably reattached itself to Superman after DS was put on the wall, after all it is alive and in the story they do have a motherbox, you can clearly see Motherbox bubbles working on DS, although they usually are depicted as being afraid of Darkseid and this Motherbox was not which is a very rare and extreme, writers really stretched that out pretty far. Gotta agree about Quan he was warned enough.
Originally posted by kevdudeLoeb really sucked up that part of the story[overall I loved it though], but as I said when I first started describing it, it's really ambiguous, nothing in that whole section of the story is really all that clear. It's too many maybe's and could haves.
It probably reattached itself to Superman after DS was put on the wall, after all it is alive and in the story they do have a motherbox, you can clearly see Motherbox bubbles working on DS, although they usually are depicted as being afraid of Darkseid and this Motherbox was not which is a very rare and extreme, writers really stretched that out pretty far. Gotta agree about Quan he was warned enough.
Batman and Barda were the ones shown with motherboxes on panel, Batman borrowing his from Barda obviously.
After returning to Earth, not only has at the very -least- a day passed, but the person who the motherboxes belonged to left the story.[I doubt she passes them out like candy and lets people keep them]
Why would Superman not only be carrying a motherbox on a trip to his moms, but how does he BOOM back after possibly attaching one to Darkseid, and never retrieving it?
Too much left unanswered.
Nah Loeb did alright, Superman, Batman, WW and Barda actually set Darkseid up for that to happen and told Supergirl to fly around the Earth KNOWING Darkseid on Apokolips would be watching Supergirl and would get his ego hurt and would come to Earth himself to do something, they didn't know what he would do but they counted on him doing something so they was prepared. Remember in Superman/Batman 42 Superman talks about putting DS back on the Wall and DS leaves before being manipulated by them again and leaving them to die or get stuck on the wall themselves. After that we see DS hatching a plan of revenge on all of them, say FC? 😄
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWarned for bashing.
My God you have got to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum. Hank Henshaw was revived on a panel by a manhunter and somehow you managed not see it that way (Yes im still going on about it). You also have a habit of reading too much into feats.You are basically a terrible debator and you need to get a grip.
Originally posted by AvlonWhich version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?
Apokolips now. That very same armor turned DD to slag with ease...and it's not just simply an armor fashioned together from drones... at least not as DS designed it.Especially since as per your point, drones were getting slaughtered by DD and yet the AE took him out with such ease.
Superman was shown to be above this in OWAW.
If as certain posters like to do we go by the writers explanation or intent... then Supes was unstoppable. 🙂
Originally posted by AvlonI never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Read my last response again. How can you quantify the strength of the energy used by Surfers and Thanos blasts vs Odin? The double standards employed in this place are ridiculous.All the blasts come from powerful sources. Were the drones as powerful as a single imperiex blast? No...but the fact that they were constant and cummulative and Supes wasn't defending against them is just as good.
As for Braniacs use with the imperiex energy. He was shown as taking over the universe with it had Superman not stopped him. Before his sundip, Braniacs tendrils cut Supes with little effort.
Originally posted by AvlonChrist. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.
He flew through the heart of the sun. In this fight, he will be on or in the sun while battling...As for time stop...how often has Odin used it? Superman has probably used T-vo more often (which would negate it anyway.)
Originally posted by JuntaiThis Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.
But Superman grabbed Darkseid and flew to the sun, defeated him, and flew off into space with Darkseid and then a noticable BOOM, and they were at the Source Wall.Superman was never depicted in the story with a motherbox, and certainly why would he have one days later?
Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Fair enough, good explanation. Still the plot is full of holes, though. But that's because Jeph Loeb sucks, lol.
1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations.
Originally posted by kevdude🤘
Nah Loeb did alright, Superman, Batman, WW and Barda actually set Darkseid up for that to happen and told Supergirl to fly around the Earth KNOWING Darkseid on Apokolips would be watching Supergirl and would get his ego hurt and would come to Earth himself to do something, they didn't know what he would do but they counted on him doing something so they was prepared. Remember in Superman/Batman 42 Superman talks about putting DS back on the Wall and DS leaves before being manipulated by them again and leaving them to die or get stuck on the wall themselves. After that we see DS hatching a plan of revenge on all of them, say FC? 😄
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?
I never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Christ. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.
This Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations.
Did you know that before or after I said it? Don't matter though, nice post Onedumb 🙂 btw Alvon knows his stuff and if he don't hes usually pretty good about being open minded enough to actually read what other ppl say and not just keep going on and on about what he wants.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?
This DD is between Rex and Gog Wars and it the original. Quite a feat to so easily beat him. Have you read Apokolips now?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Christ. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.
The same tendrils were not destroyed by anyone after that. Steel mentions that they are powered up a hundredfold after Supes flies through the sun. The same powered up Superman was taking blasts from the very same power that created those and earlier cut through his skin without much effort.
On top of this, Supes trip to the sun was shown, he pauses in there briefly (shown by the thought capsules as he barely spoke sentences) where he flies right back through warworld and starts on Brainiac drones.
If you want to go for scans, that's fine, I have the book in front of me now.
Fighting Odin, he'd be in the sun or on it for a longer period of time powering up than he was in it in OWAW.
As for constant and cumlative, do you think the drones just stopped firing? You still see Braniac drones attacking and purple energy afterwards. It's still the same energy by the way if you've read the book. Braniac himself says it.
You cannot prove anything about SS and Thanos blasts. It's even silly that such detail has to be gone over for essentially the same situation.
Odin's battle against Thanos involved none of the shenanigans that people would like it to and it was pretty much energy blasts with a bit of physical stuff thrown in.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.
This sounds viable. I'll even add to it. A motherbox can activate a boomtube by itself if needed. I'm still concerned about it not being shown. Something like that is usually made crystal clear.
Originally posted by AvlonHave I placed the comics in my hands and read them? No. I hear about 'Apokolips Now' through third-hand accounts. Usually in regards to Superman and Darkseid. I'll have to read it. Of course, you could just post scans and save me time, money and effort. But Doomsday Rex was borne from the skeleton of H/P Doomsday after Imperiex Prime fried him and was regenerated by Lex Luthor and Darkseid with Kryptonian DNA from Superman. He may be borne from the original, but he is not the original completely. To be honest, he appears weaker than H/P Doomsday. And while I hate to lean on the majority as evidence, I believe most people believe Doomsday Rex to be much weaker than H/P Doomsday. Relying on on-panel evidence, he can't adapt to the kryptonite weakness. In my humble opinion, I still believe that H/P Doomsday is much much stronger than Doomsday Rex.
This DD is between Rex and Gog Wars and it the original. Quite a feat to so easily beat him. Have you read Apokolips now?
So I am not surprised that Entropy Aegis Steel could kick the crap out of a Doomsday that is between Rex and Gog Wars. I sincerely doubt Entropy Aegis Steel's ability to destroy H/P Doomsday however.
Originally posted by AvlonHere is where I believe Captain Atom is destroying a Braniac tendril. And I don't see Superman getting cut up by them. Other people can judge from this scene what's going on. This is AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman went for his sun-dip:
The same tendrils were not destroyed by anyone after that. Steel mentions that they are powered up a hundredfold after Supes flies through the sun. The same powered up Superman was taking blasts from the very same power that created those and earlier cut through his skin without much effort.