Superman vs Odin (with stipulations)

Originally posted by Avlon
On top of this, Supes trip to the sun was shown, he pauses in there briefly (shown by the thought capsules as he barely spoke sentences) where he flies right back through warworld and starts on Brainiac drones.

If you want to go for scans, that's fine, I have the book in front of me now.

Fighting Odin, he'd be in the sun or on it for a longer period of time powering up than he was in it in OWAW.

Originally posted by Avlon
As for constant and cumlative, do you think the drones just stopped firing? You still see Braniac drones attacking and purple energy afterwards. It's still the same energy by the way if you've read the book. Braniac himself says it.

You cannot prove anything about SS and Thanos blasts. It's even silly that such detail has to be gone over for essentially the same situation.

Odin's battle against Thanos involved none of the shenanigans that people would like it to and it was pretty much energy blasts with a bit of physical stuff thrown in.

And this is the very next page so that no doubt can be left as to whether or not the Braniac drone blasts were cumulative. As can be plainly seen here, in the very next page, there is only one Braniac drone left. That Braniac drone isn't even blasting him anymore. So yes, in direct answer to your question before, "The Braniac drones did stop firing at Superman. They were apparently destroyed in the backlash and this particular one stopped firing on-panel." You characterize Superman's feat as shrugging off constant and cumulative entropic blasts that is just as good a feat as shrugging off an actual Imperiex Prime personal blast:

Originally posted by Avlon
All the blasts come from powerful sources. Were the drones as powerful as a single imperiex blast? No...but the fact that they were constant and cummulative and Supes wasn't defending against them is just as good.

P.S. I don't mean to spam at all... but I don't have an imageshack account and I couldn't find these scans in the respect threads. So please forgive me. I'm limited by the attach image file to one image per post...

Hmm, I was about to ding you on posting spam, but if that is the only way you know how to post images....

As for your six pages. Supes flies to the sun, pauses briefly (as in the scan) and runs right back into battle. If you had said he was in the fetal position for 6 pages, that is different. However, that is not the case... that is him going, pausing, and coming back for Brainiac.

The scan that you posted of captain marvel is still BEFORE Steel mentions that Brainiac has powered the conduits a HUNDREDFOLD, so I believe you are mistaken...and it's before Supes Sundips.

Do you think the drones stopped shooting at Supes? Does the color of the blasts somehow change that it's the same energy (as stated earlier by Brainy in the same comic) blasting Superman hellbent on stopping him from moving warlworld. In the 2nd scan second panel there is still a drone trying to attack him and pretty much seeng how futile it is.

I mean if you really want to keep going on that it was a brief attack...fine. However, my point still stands...he got hit with some powerful blasts just like Odin did without even defending himself. You can't quantify how powerful the blasts are on odins end which is fine, but the 2 feats are very similar.

I'm not going to keep on going about this. It's a ton of work for something so basic. Plus, the super long multiple posts don't keep my attention for long.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
P.S. I don't mean to spam at all... but I don't have an imageshack account and I couldn't find these scans in the respect threads. So please forgive me. I'm limited by the attach image file to one image per post...

cartman.

I'm reading through more of 'Our Worlds At War.' I have all the pertinent issues, and guess what? I'm finding even more evidence against Braniac drones utlizing entropic blasts then before. But first, let's counter what arguments you're making...

Originally posted by Avlon
As for your six pages. Supes flies to the sun, pauses briefly (as in the scan) and runs right back into battle. If you had said he was in the fetal position for 6 pages, that is different. However, that is not the case... that is him going, pausing, and coming back for Brainiac.

The scan that you posted of captain marvel is still BEFORE Steel mentions that Brainiac has powered the conduits a HUNDREDFOLD, so I believe you are mistaken...and it's before Supes Sundips.

Originally posted by Avlon

Do you think the drones stopped shooting at Supes? Does the color of the blasts somehow change that it's the same energy (as stated earlier by Brainy in the same comic) blasting Superman hellbent on stopping him from moving warlworld. In the 2nd scan second panel there is still a drone trying to attack him and pretty much seeng how futile it is.

Originally posted by Avlon
I mean if you really want to keep going on that it was a brief attack...fine. However, my point still stands...he got hit with some powerful blasts just like Odin did without even defending himself. You can't quantify how powerful the blasts are on odins end which is fine, but the 2 feats are very similar.

I'm not going to keep on going about this. It's a ton of work for something so basic. Plus, the super long multiple posts don't keep my attention for long.

In Adventure sof Superman #595, Braniac-13 blasts Earth and Lex describes it as an "electromagnetic pulse" on-panel. That is different from entropic energy. This is proof that Braniac-13 was utilizing Imperiex Prime's energy and not necessarily every blast that he or Warworld emitted was entropic energy. In Man Of Steel #117, Superman describes Braniac-13's energy tendrils as "hard-light" on-panel. So even the energy tendrils that were being used were not entropic energy. And what were the blasts that Braniac drones were using against sun-dipped Superman? Never described on-panel. AND they were purple instead of blue.

I have no problem assuming they were entropic blasts. Considering that's what was amping Warworld, why not use entropic blasts? But they were nowhere near the scale that Imperiex Prime used on H/P Doomsday. And it's just as arguable that Braniac-13 was utilizing good ole force blasts since the only times his energy blasts/tendrils were actually described, were forms of energy OTHER than entropy.

P.S. Galan007, how do you do that? I don't even know how to make the links I show as images. For some reason, the hypertext doesn't work for me...

Great debate taking place here between yall.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Great debate taking place here between yall.

I was about to say the same thing. This is one of the better debates we've had on the forum in some time. Very impressive on the part of all parties.

Originally posted by illadelph12

I was about to say the same thing.
This is one of the better debates we've had on the forum in some time.
Very impressive on the part of all parties.

I've decided to start letting it be known,
when I see something sweet like this,
the posters will know I'm appreciating their efforts,
true debaters should be encouraged more often,
a simple acknowledgement motivates the continuation
of comprehensive discussions such as this.

Sometimes one can put so much energy/time into a dialogue with visual references,
and if only the person one is wrangling with is openly recognizing one's point of view,
one can possibly think no one else is looking/reading or paying attention,
which imo, can lead to a mindset that whispers:
"what's the point of presenting/sharing all this knowledge,
when no one but the person involved in the discourse
is discerning what I'm saying"

For me, it's enough, but that's because I'm simple and I impress myself. 😂

So fellas, some of us are saluting your work, let it be known. 🙂

Yes, definitely good debate going on here..

Left me w/ more question dough in regards to O.W.A.W.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]I'm reading through more of 'Our Worlds At War.' I have all the pertinent issues, and guess what? I'm finding even more evidence against Braniac drones utlizing entropic blasts then before. But first, let's counter what arguments you're making...
So you agree he paused inside the Sun for the duration of all those conversations? Ok. Good. You agree that he didn't just zip through the sun. That's all I needed to hear.

You're right, he didn't zip through the sun, BUT he also wasn't in there for a long time either as you implied. Point that I made still stands. Every second that Odin is in the sun with Supes...he's getting EXPONENTIALLY stronger/faster/more powerful.

Removed of basic weaknesses. That poses a true problem on Odins end of things.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]Oh I see what you're saying about a subsequent amp to those mechanical tendrils... But there is still a problem with what you posited. Superman never destroyed any mechanical tendrils after Entropy Aegis Steel noted they were magnified a hundredfold. So your point is moot. Sorry.

Actually, I've just said tendrils. Never said anything about simply mechanical as even you have admitted that there are both mechanical AND energy tendrils...and Steel admits after a point that they have increased a hundredfold in strength.

A Steel that can still slag Doomsday with a gesture, and Superman was shown above him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]The panel where Entropy Aegis Steel states that is on the page immediately preceding these followings scans. And nowhere are mechanical tendrils being ripped apart:
Um. Yes, I do think the drones stopped firing at Superman since the second scan up above shows that only one Braniac drone is left and he isn't even shooting Superman anymore. Do you see any instance where Braniac drones are shooting Superman AFTER the first scan? I don't. I'm pretty sure other people don't either. Braniac NEVER stated that the blasts he was using were entropic blasts. In the second scan, the Braniac drone isn't blasting at all and only trying to plead with Superman. So what we have, on-panel, is Braniac drones blasting at him in one panel. And most of them were missing even.
Now. I don't know how strong those blasts were as compared to the ones Odin was taking. I never, ever, once commented on their strength relative to each other. The only thing I took exception to is the characterization that amped Superman was taking entropic blasts on the level that Imperiex Prime himself used on H/P Doomsday. It appears we both agree now that is not the case. But just in case you don't, and just in case others wish to belabor the point, here's some evidence that Braniac-13 could have been using energy different from entropic energy:

Look at the panels again. See how much energy Superman is outputting by that point? The drones have probably been destroyed (considering how many started out attacking Supes) or were not visible due to all that energy. And this was just energy being exerted with Superman pushing Warworld. Imagine he had actually been focusing on attacking the drones themselves.

You have admitted a few times that you don't know how powerful the blasts that were used on Odin were...which reverts back to my point even before we got into a tangled debate on the specifics of OWAW.

We can agree that all the blasts taken by our opponents were powerful. The point that a brainiac drone blasts isn't as powerful as an Imperiex Prime blast is moot. Neither the drones nor Thanos/Surfer should equal the blast. Both Odin and Supes took their respective blasts downright well without flinching.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]In Adventure sof Superman #595, Braniac-13 blasts Earth and Lex describes it as an "electromagnetic pulse" on-panel. That is different from entropic energy. This is proof that Braniac-13 was utilizing Imperiex Prime's energy and not necessarily every blast that he or Warworld emitted was entropic energy. In Man Of Steel #117, Superman describes Braniac-13's energy tendrils as "hard-light" on-panel. So even the energy tendrils that were being used were not entropic energy. And what were the blasts that Braniac drones were using against sun-dipped Superman? Never described on-panel. AND they were purple instead of blue.

Brainiac had complete control over Imperiex's entropic energy. Even if you take the route that he wasn't using any kind of entropic energy...there is no reason to assume the blasts were any less powerful. Luthor's beam was also purple and it utilized B13 energy.

As stated earlier...as a comparison to how Supes took the blasts along with Odin...it stands just fine on it's own.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B]I have no problem assuming they were entropic blasts. Considering that's what was amping Warworld, why not use entropic blasts? But they were nowhere near the scale that Imperiex Prime used on H/P Doomsday. And it's just as arguable that Braniac-13 was utilizing good ole force blasts since the only times his energy blasts/tendrils were actually described, were forms of energy OTHER than entropy.

I think you got mixed up somewhere. I spoke of the Entropy Aegis, not of Imperiex Prime. As stated before, it makes little difference in this debate though. My original points still stand fine.

P.S. Just because you are debating with me, it doesn't mean I can't help you with posting scans if you needed help. Even if we don't agree, there is no reason that we can't keep a friendly attitude. Don't miss out on things just because you are so focused on "winning" a debate.

Originally posted by kevdude
hes usually pretty good about being open minded enough to actually read what other ppl say and not just keep going on and on about what he wants.

Not really there were scans of a Manhunter bringing Henshaw back to life on a panel but according to him thats not what they were doing.

Tells me that Henshaws lifeforce cant be sensed but in one of the scans provided High-Father was able to sense Henshaw.

Had a scan where he said that Superman lifted a ship the size of the moon. When I actually read the scan it said the size of a small moon.

Said that Superman beat Dominus but failed to realise that Superman spent time boosting his powers and therefor cannot be used as evidence that Superman can beat abstract beings.

Nah mate he twists things around all the time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really there were scans of a Manhunter bringing Henshaw back to life on a panel but according to him thats not what they were doing.

Tells me that Henshaws lifeforce cant be sensed but in one of the scans provided High-Father was able to sense Henshaw.

Had a scan where he said that Superman lifted a ship the size of the moon. When I actually read the scan it said the size of a small moon.

Said that Superman beat Dominus but failed to realise that Superman spent time boosting his powers and therefor cannot be used as evidence that Superman can beat abstract beings.

Nah mate he twists things around all the time.

Nah, you simply have your own view of things and obviously have coping issues letting things go. Adding to the sillyness even more is that you haven't read a lot of the material you "debate" for.

I believe you were warned. Best to let your silly internet hate go. Especially since a mod warned you already.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really there were scans of a Manhunter bringing Henshaw back to life on a panel but according to him thats not what they were doing.

Tells me that Henshaws lifeforce cant be sensed but in one of the scans provided High-Father was able to sense Henshaw.

Had a scan where he said that Superman lifted a ship the size of the moon. When I actually read the scan it said the size of a small moon.

Said that Superman beat Dominus but failed to realise that Superman spent time boosting his powers and therefor cannot be used as evidence that Superman can beat abstract beings.

Nah mate he twists things around all the time.

The entropy also became a power source for Brainiac, doesn't mean he has to use it to that exact end.

Surfer has power cosmic, but he can just as easily use that source of power, to make an Electromagnetic blast. Doesn't mean it isn't powered by his vast cosmic energy.

Originally posted by Avlon
Nah, you simply have your own view of things and obviously have coping issues letting things go. Adding to the sillyness even more is that you haven't read a lot of the material you "debate" for.

I believe you were warned. Best to let your silly internet hate go. Especially since a mod warned you already.

No I dont read alot of the material when it mainly comes to DC but you cant read the comics that you own properly. I also dont hate you I think you twist stuff around but at least you're not rude about it.

Hey im done I think......get back to the debate.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No I dont read alot of the material when it mainly comes to DC

That much is obvious.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
but you cant read the comics that you own properly.

At the very least, my claims on anything are debatable. They are logical and true to the character. You seem to deny and accept things based on feelings.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I also dont hate you I think you twist stuff around but at least you're not rude about it.

This place is full of more twists and turns than a car wreck. The fact is, on all the claims that you have an issue with, I know more about the characters and even what happened. Your example of highfather was even incorrect.

But yes. Stay on topic and avoid the silly thread trolling to try and smear my good screen name. 🙂

Originally posted by Avlon
That much is obvious.

At the very least, my claims on anything are debatable. They are logical and true to the character. You seem to deny and accept things based on feelings.

This place is full of more twists and turns than a car wreck. The fact is, on all the claims that you have an issue with, I know more about the characters and even what happened. Your example of highfather was even incorrect.

But yes. Stay on topic and avoid the silly thread trolling to try and smear my good screen name. 🙂

Actually im not sure about that. They actually knew that Henshaw was on the source wall.

Odin would be capable of surviving Superman's onslaught until Clark explodes or the pain becomes too much.

Originally posted by llagrok
Odin would be capable of surviving Superman's onslaught until Clark explodes or the pain becomes too much.

You're just biased. 😛