Here, I'm fairly sure he'd be convicted of murder, or at least manslaughter. The fact that there's a recorded conversation in which he declared that he fully intends to kill both men, will definitely go against him a lot.
What we also have to remember, is that this was not his house being burgled. He left his house against advice, then shot and killed two men. Whether one of them ran at him seems quite irrelevant at this point, given the fact that he'd already voiced his intent before leaving the house.
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Here, I'm fairly sure he'd be convicted of murder, or at least manslaughter. The fact that there's a recorded conversation in which he declared that he fully intends to kill both men, will definitely go against him a lot.What we also have to remember, is that this was not his house being burgled. He left his house against advice, then shot and killed two men. Whether one of them ran at him seems quite irrelevant at this point, given the fact that he'd already voiced his intent before leaving the house.
I agree. Wasn't there a man in the UK that got convicted of murder for shooting a burglar in the back in his own GD home?
Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree. Wasn't there a man in the UK that got convicted of murder for shooting a burglar in the back in his own GD home?
Yeah, there was, I believe he was mentioned a lot earlier in the thread. I was pretty young when that happened, but I remember there being a lot of public outcry over it.
Here is another link:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3880630
Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.
The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.
Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.
On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.
Horn: Move, you're dead.
Seems to me he went outside looking to kill, committed murder, and got away with it........he WALKED.
Originally posted by chillmeistergenHarris County jury cleared him of all charges......you believe that shit? 😕
Here, I'm fairly sure he'd be convicted of murder, or at least manslaughter. The fact that there's a recorded conversation in which he declared that he fully intends to kill both men, will definitely go against him a lot.What we also have to remember, is that this was not his house being burgled. He left his house against advice, then shot and killed two men. Whether one of them ran at him seems quite irrelevant at this point, given the fact that he'd already voiced his intent before leaving the house.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Harris County jury cleared him of all charges......you believe that shit? 😕
I don't really know enough about U.S law to have an opinion on the decision. The whole business of state laws and federal laws, and the ways in which they differ and apply really is a confusing state of affairs.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here is another link:http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3880630
Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.
[b]The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.
Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.
On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.
Horn: Move, you're dead.
Seems to me he went outside looking to kill, committed murder, and got away with it........he WALKED. [/B]
In light of that, I agree with you RJ
that is pretty unmistakable criminal intent, regardless of the actions of the other people. He said explicitly he was not just trying to stop them, but kill them
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here is another link:http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3880630
Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.
[b]The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.
Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.
On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.
Horn: Move, you're dead.
Seems to me he went outside looking to kill, committed murder, and got away with it........he WALKED. [/B]
As I said earlier that phone conversation does count against him and for your side, but I wouldn't go on to be so convinced he did kill them in cold blood, he might actually had to defend himself. A sceptic approach seems the most reasonable.
Originally posted by Bardock42
As I said earlier that phone conversation does count against him and for your side, but I wouldn't go on to be so convinced he did kill them in cold blood, he might actually had to defend himself. A sceptic approach seems the most reasonable.
its attempted murder as soon as he exits the house.
If anything, the criminals have the "self defense" defense
Originally posted by inimalist
its attempted murder as soon as he exits the house.If anything, the criminals have the "self defense" defense
Well, the Texan law seems to disagree.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
15 pages in..... still, two criminals will no longer be committing crimes against law abiding citizens. yay.
Possibly another some more though.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, the Texan law seems to disagree.
indeed, pretent that everything I say is qualified with: "In my opinion..."
however, I fail to see how saying "I'm going outside to kill these people, not just stop them" then going outside and killing them does not translate into criminal intent. But hey, I'm not a lawyer.
Originally posted by inimalist
indeed, pretent that everything I say is qualified with: "In my opinion..."however, I fail to see how saying "I'm going outside to kill these people, not just stop them" then going outside and killing them does not translate into criminal intent. But hey, I'm not a lawyer.
I think it does look pretty bad for intent. But what he actually did (also as heard on the tape) is tell them to stop, as they were in the middle of breaking into someone's house. From the point of view of the victims they couldn't know he intended to kill them (if he did at all)...and they charged someone that protected his neighbours house (that act alone should at least not be criminalized).
As you can see from my post I flip flop from one point of view to the other...c-cause I think we have way too little to go on to form a reasonable opinion of what actually happened.
no, totally, I don't feel there is any worth in debating the standoff, as there is likely no evidence to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, either is "guilty".
As good as CSIs are, they never had to prove that the shooter was defending himself, just that there is some chance that he had been charged, or more specifically, that there wasn't enough evidence to say without a doubt that the robber hadn't charged. Its way more convoluted than I want to comment on, especially with no court records.
And ya, if there was no specific evidence where he lays out the fact that he both intends to kill them and has no intention of just preventing the crime, I'd say he was within his rghts to defend his neighbour's house. Not shoot a fleeing victim though
Originally posted by Bardock42If only there were witnesses...
As I said earlier that phone conversation does count against him and for your side, but I wouldn't go on to be so convinced he did kill them in cold blood, he might actually had to defend himself. A sceptic approach seems the most reasonable.