Originally posted by Phantom ZoneBecause a stage magician would be terrible at even palming apples and bottles of hydrogen peroxide?
Im not arguing that he can't do it im arguing he can't do it without attracting attention to himself.
Hell if you know where to look you can sneak into a hospital and find cleaning supplies that can make Chlorine gas (Ia highly lethal toxin) from ammonia and bleach. Or Any school will do because they also have cleaning chemicals.
You're not arguing what's logical or likely you're arguing what you WANT to happen.. just as you ALWAYS do.
If you want I could go on about the simple chemicals that can be found in commonly acquired goods.
Fertilizer can be used to make bombs...
Originally posted by Starscream M
They each have a week to kill each other. Who will succeed?Location: NYC
vs
thats NYC, not marvel nyc, or dc nyc, just nyc...
claiming otherwise is trolling.
joker has long been shown to be able to cobble together whatever amount of joker venom he needs with whatever resources are available, so i really doubt he's going to have much trouble.
also, drawing joker out? seriously, if thats all frank can come up with, he wont be very successful...
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because a stage magician would be terrible at even palming apples and bottles of hydrogen peroxide?Hell if you know where to look you can sneak into a hospital and find cleaning supplies that can make Chlorine gas (Ia highly lethal toxin) from ammonia and bleach. Or Any school will do because they also have cleaning chemicals.
You're not arguing what's logical or likely you're arguing what you WANT to happen.. just as you ALWAYS do.
If you want I could go on about the simple chemicals that can be found in commonly acquired goods.
Fertilizer can be used to make bombs...
If hes going to posion the whole city hes going to need manpower and alot of resources. That puts Joker on the Radar.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWhy would he?
If hes going to posion the whole city hes going to need manpower and alot of resources. That puts Joker on the Radar.
I've already told you about some of the easy to acquire items.
Aluminum comes from cans, Zinc can be retrieved from batteries, fertilizer provides the Potassium Sulphate.
Batteries, aluminum cans, and fertilizer are not going to put him on the radar.
And again why would he need manpower?
Stop setting up limits on the character that doesn't exist.. Go read the damned comics. Peaches, hydrogen peroxide,
Hair dye contains lead acetate...
Is hair dye going to put him on the radar?
By the time he's "on the radar" It'll be too late.
And it looks like the mod ruling has handicapped Punisher as well. Its true people just assumed it was Marvel's NYC, but it doesn't say that it is.. Could be our own world then.
All of Punisher's resources have dried up as well. Level playing field.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotWhat a letdown. So Joker afflicts a small population now instead of what you casually and confidently asserted a few pages earlier... holding the entire city hostage or poisoning the entire NYC water supply. I mean... so they're decoys now. What then? Punisher walks out unawares to each one while Joker waits in an alley to shoot him from the dark? That's about as stupid as what you accuse Punisher fanboys of asserting. Why the hell wouldn't Frank investigate from afar whether it was truly Joker through simple surveillance? Bah. I give up. And apparently, so did you.
I was simply pointing out an instance whereby through random chemicals Joker generated Joker Venom enough to infect the inmates of Arkham's Slab. Indicating it's not exactly difficult for Joker to find what he needs to make it.Meanwhile you're blatantly trolling, to a comment that wasn't even directed to you.
Your manner makes it seem rather pointless. None of those everyday scenarios I mentioned were things intended for the Joker to do, pretty blatantly obviously.I would presumably steal requisite chemicals from school or university labs. Generate enough Joker Venom to afflict a small but effective population of people, use them as "goons" or simply as decoys. Or depending on the potency of the Joker Venom, and thus the requisite volume, disseminate it into the water supply without "goons."
But then I'm not the Joker.
If Tom Brady could dodge like you, Pats woulda won the Superbowl.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotWhat random chemicals? Even accounting for your quotation of Creshock's assertions... Since when can hydrogen cyanide be reproduced from hydrogen peroxide and peach pits/apple seed without proper equipment? Hell I even googled this garbage at occultdestroyer's request and that stuff is made through highly complicated processes. Simply because peach pits and apple seeds contain cyanide doesn't mean they contain enough cyanide to replicate the known processes for hydrogen cyanide production:
Which Joker appears to be able to simply formulate out of random chemicals at hand.
Did Joker make hydrogen cyanide from peach pits or apple seeds on-panel somewhere that I don't know about? Strychnodide isn't even real! How is it found in laxatives? Is this from some Batman comic that I didn't read? Sources please! Don't give me some deus ex machina "He'd find a way" cop-out explanation.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If hes going to posion the whole city hes going to need manpower and alot of resources. That puts Joker on the Radar.
You know, there are other methods of poisoning the whole city besides air raid.
He can infiltrate the city's water supply storage, or spread them by simple dispersement in gas form in an alley or somewhere secluded.
There are countless possibilities The Joker can devise for the toxin to spread. And with a mind as twisted as his, I'm quite sure he can come up with a "non-standard" tactic.
PS: Don't bring up the Batman BS. Everyone knows that Joker's favorite plaything is Batman, therefore he won't do anything serious against him.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What a letdown. So Joker afflicts a small population now instead of what you casually and confidently asserted a few pages earlier... holding the entire city hostage or poisoning the entire NYC water supply. I mean... so they're decoys now. What then? Punisher walks out unawares to each one while Joker waits in an alley to shoot him from the dark? That's about as stupid as what you accuse Punisher fanboys of asserting. Why the hell wouldn't Frank investigate from afar whether it was truly Joker through simple surveillance? Bah. I give up. And apparently, so did you.If Tom Brady could dodge like you, Pats woulda won the Superbowl.What random chemicals? Even accounting for your quotation of Creshock's assertions... Since when can hydrogen cyanide be reproduced from hydrogen peroxide and peach pits/apple seed without proper equipment? Hell I even googled this garbage at occultdestroyer's request and that stuff is made through highly complicated processes. Simply because peach pits and apple seeds contain cyanide doesn't mean they contain enough cyanide to replicate the known processes for hydrogen cyanide production:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanideDid Joker make hydrogen cyanide from peach pits or apple seeds on-panel somewhere that I don't know about? Strychnodide isn't even real! How is it found in laxatives? Is this from some Batman comic that I didn't read? Sources please! Don't give me some deus ex machina "He'd find a way" cop-out explanation.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/15/wikipedia_can_damage_your_grades/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS261US263&q=wikipedia+fails+students
Originally posted by RaoulSo Frank doesn't even get his guns, hideouts or his own personal resources. Lovely. I sent a PM to the thread starter. He can clear this up. Til then, I absolutely disagree that Joker can cobble together Joker Venom on the fly. Show me scans or refer me to instances/issues and I'll change my mind. The best we've got so far is using something that was contained in an Arkham collar. Until then, it's unsupported speculation. And I have every right to ask for sources.
thats NYC, not marvel nyc, or dc nyc, just nyc...claiming otherwise is trolling.
joker has long been shown to be able to cobble together whatever amount of joker venom he needs with whatever resources are available, so i really doubt he's going to have much trouble.
also, drawing joker out? seriously, if thats all frank can come up with, he wont be very successful...
Originally posted by occultdestroyerI'm not interested in the other ways. Xmarksthespot said Joker could simply hold the entire city hostage or poison NYC's entire water supply. I'd like to know how he can say this so casually when he's dropped into either Marvel NYC or a facsimile of NYC where neither Frank nor Joker have any resources whatsoever and are stranded.
You know, there are other methods of poisoning the whole city besides air raid.He can infiltrate the city's water supply storage, or spread them by simple dispersement in gas form in an alley or somewhere secluded.
There are countless possibilities The Joker can devise for the toxin to spread. And with a mind as twisted as his, I'm quite sure he can come up with a "non-standard" tactic.
PS: Don't bring up the Batman BS. Everyone knows that Joker's favorite plaything is Batman, therefore he won't do anything serious against him.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So Frank doesn't even get his guns, hideouts or his own personal resources. Lovely. I sent a PM to the thread starter. He can clear this up. Til then, I absolutely disagree that Joker can cobble together Joker Venom on the fly. Show me scans or refer me to instances/issues and I'll change my mind. The best we've got so far is using something that was contained in an Arkham collar. Until then, it's unsupported speculation. And I have every right to ask for sources.
nobody's saying you haven't the right. ask trick when he gets on, he has plenty of joker scans, i'd upload some but my HD is at home...
bruce waited far too long, i'm not about to let him ruin a thread after 34 pages...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0What I described could be accomplished relatively easily by the average person given the chemical aptitude, to gain the Joker Venom or goons that Joker apparently needs. A school or university isn't exactly the Pentagon. One could infect the sprinkler system of a large shopping mall and light a cigarette and have several hundreds to thousands of Jokerized civilians running amok. One could hold a preschool full of children hostage as noted by someone else, to provoke response from Punisher and end up not really even being there revealing a class full of Jokerized children and an exploding jack in the box filled with shrapnel. My mind is reasonably sane, I don't know what the Joker would be fully capable of.
What a letdown. So Joker afflicts a small population now instead of what you casually and confidently asserted a few pages earlier... holding the entire city hostage or poisoning the entire NYC water supply. I mean... so they're decoys now. What then? Punisher walks out unawares to each one while Joker waits in an alley to shoot him from the dark? That's about as stupid as what you accuse Punisher fanboys of asserting. Why the hell wouldn't Frank investigate from afar whether it was truly Joker through simple surveillance? Bah. I give up. And apparently, so did you.If Tom Brady could dodge like you, Pats woulda won the Superbowl.What random chemicals? Even accounting for your quotation of Creshock's assertions... Since when can hydrogen cyanide be reproduced from hydrogen peroxide and peach pits/apple seed without proper equipment? Hell I even googled this garbage at occultdestroyer's request and that stuff is made through highly complicated processes. Simply because peach pits and apple seeds contain cyanide doesn't mean they contain enough cyanide to replicate the known processes for hydrogen cyanide production:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanideDid Joker make hydrogen cyanide from peach pits or apple seeds on-panel somewhere that I don't know about? Strychnodide isn't even real! How is it found in laxatives? Is this from some Batman comic that I didn't read? Sources please! Don't give me some deus ex machina "He'd find a way" cop-out explanation.
Random chemicals as in the instance I cited where random chemicals generated Joker Venom.
Originally posted by redhotrashHe also has no resources.
Punisher wins this because a lot of Joker's advantage is psychological. Frank has nothing to lose and wont play along.
Where will he get major munitions in New York City now?
Bare in mind Joker uses chemical weapons, which have components that are fairly easily gotten to.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotSo Joker manages to dilute his sole flower's supply of venom into a school sprinkler system... which could possibly (but not probably) contain enough potency to cause a preschool full of children to go crazy... and then what?
What I described could be accomplished relatively easily by the average person given the chemical aptitude, to gain the Joker Venom or goons that Joker apparently needs. One could infect the sprinkler system of a large shopping mall and light a cigarette and have several hundreds to thousands of Jokerized civilians running amok. One could hold a preschool full of children hostage as noted by someone else, to provoke response from Punisher and end up not really even being there. My mind is reasonably sane, I don't know what the Joker would be fully capable of.Random chemicals as in the instance I cited where random chemicals generated Joker Venom.
Joker waits in a nearby building waiting for Punisher to walk through the school's front door so he he can shoot him unawares? If Joker has already played his trump-card, why exactly does Punisher needlessly step out into the open for? The thread didn't specify braindead Punisher. Your scenario leads to nothing more concrete than any of the pro-Punisher situations you've ridiculed yourself.
You only cited one instance of Joker using random chemicals. And that included an Arkham collar. Pretty sure he's not going to find Arkham collars in neutral New York City. Occultdestroyer asked me to google Joker Venom and one of the components isn't even real! Either way, I'd like to hear you support that Joker could simply hold the entire city hostage or poison NYC's entire water supply with no resources, inaccurate city geography knowledge, no hideouts, no reputation. Remember? You started out by saying he'd go to a tanning salon first. *grabs popcorn again* AND... ACTION!