Originally posted by OneDumbG0Where exactly did I say he was going to use his base amount of Joker Venom into a school sprinkler (notwithstanding I said mall sprinkler.) Why do we propose that Joker is incapable of making something he's shown himself well capable of? What on earth did your second paragraph have anything to do with anything I wrote? Not being any situation I've written and thus a strawman?
So Joker manages to dilute his sole flower's supply of venom into a school sprinkler system... which could possibly (but not probably) contain enough potency to cause a preschool full of children to go crazy... and then what?Joker waits in a nearby building waiting for Punisher to walk through the school's front door so he he can shoot him unawares? If Joker has already played his trump-card, why exactly does Punisher needlessly step out into the open for? The thread didn't specify braindead Punisher. Your scenario leads to nothing more concrete than any of the pro-Punisher situations you've ridiculed yourself.
You only cited one instance of Joker using random chemicals. And that included an Arkham collar. Pretty sure he's not going to find Arkham collars in neutral New York City. Occultdestroyer asked me to google Joker Venom and one of the components isn't even real! Either way, I'd like to hear you support that Joker could simply hold the entire city hostage or poison NYC's entire water supply with no resources, inaccurate city geography knowledge, no hideouts, no reputation. Remember? You started out by saying he'd go to a tanning salon first. *grabs popcorn again* AND... ACTION!
I have access to hydrogen cyanide and rat poison, ergo strychnine.
I put forward traps that Joker could set, or things he could do. I didn't say that Punisher would necessarily fall for them all. Things to provoke Punisher into potentially dangerous situations, without having to reveal oneself. I'm sure that whatever the Joker would do would be more creative, deadly and ingenious than anything I can conjure.
At this point you're not reading what I'm writing anyway and I don't particularly feel like being talked down to by someone who thinks opaque reflective metal eyes can suffer normal human lens abnormalities to prevent them properly focusing light. Or that it'll be a piece of cake to find one genius supervillain among 8 million people, if he doesn't want to be found.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Either way, I'd like to hear you support that Joker could simply hold the entire city hostage or poison NYC's entire water supply with no resources, inaccurate city geography knowledge, no hideouts, no reputation.
Originally posted by Raoul
thats NYC, not marvel nyc, or dc nyc, just nyc...
this is the truth ^, and they both get there standard equipment, so theres Punishers Munitions, Joker gets his too.
Now all Joker has to do is Shoot punisher unawares, i mean, this is a KMC battle right, these guys have no super powers and whats the best and most efficient way to kill another human? Trauma, Guns or knife, i mean yeah yeah , Joker Venom great, but he has to make SURE he gets the kill right?
Everyone talking about how hard it will be to find Joker or draw him out, with the stipulations set as they are, why the hell wouldnt it be JOKER having a hard time finding Punisher? In this NYC that is not familiar to either of them, a face off is the only way to ensure a kill. They have no allies, no connections in THIS city, and any Joker makes in a week, i'll bet Frank can make some too. Joker killing innocents, sure, very likely..Joker killing Frank is quite somthing else. This isnt a thread about who can survive the longest, its about who can kill who the FASTEST, first bullet wins, and i just believe Franks gun hand faster.
But i cant prove it. So Joker poison kills half the population...great.
what does that have to do with HIM killing Frank?
Joker and Frank are trasported to NYC other ends of town, 7 day count down begins. Joker doesnt see frank again
Frank doesnt see Joker again.
Joker goes underground, makes poison..great, punisher doesnt even know about it. Meh? People die, nothing he can do about a threat he doesnt know about is there? Joker HAS to face him..and that will be when Frank Guns him down.
Originally posted by Juk3nI believe a few hundred or thousand people running around Jokerized, KILLING innocents, would certainly make Punisher want to bust some caps and thus give himself up.
this is the truth ^, and they both get there standard equipment, so theres Punishers Munitions, Joker gets his too.Now all Joker has to do is Shoot punisher unawares, i mean, this is a KMC battle right, these guys have no super powers and whats the best and most efficient way to kill another human? Trauma, Guns or knife, i mean yeah yeah , Joker Venom great, but he has to make SURE he gets the kill right?
Everyone talking about how hard it will be to find Joker or draw him out, with the stipulations set as they are, why the hell wouldnt it be JOKER having a hard time finding Punisher? In this NYC that is not familiar to either of them, a face off is the only way to ensure a kill. They have no allies, no connections in THIS city, and any Joker makes in a week, i'll bet Frank can make some too. Joker killing innocents, sure, very likely..Joker killing Frank is quite somthing else. This isnt a thread about who can survive the longest, its about who can kill who the FASTEST, first bullet wins, and i just believe Franks gun hand faster.
But i cant prove it. So Joker poison kills half the population...great.
what does that have to do with HIM killing Frank?Joker and Frank are trasported to NYC other ends of town, 7 day count down begins. Joker doesnt see frank again
Frank doesnt see Joker again.Joker goes underground, makes poison..great, punisher doesnt even know about it. Meh? People die, nothing he can do about a threat he doesnt know about is there? Joker HAS to face him..and that will be when Frank Guns him down.
And as I said earlier, Joker is a crackshot assassin. His gunhand is fast too.
Originally posted by Juntai
I believe a few hundred or thousand people running around Jokerized, KILLING innocents, would certainly make Punisher want to bust some caps and thus give himself up.And as I said earlier, Joker is a crackshot assassin. His gunhand is fast too.
So you're saying Joker "jokerizes" some people to Flush out Punisher?
oki, i can except that as an example, (1) i might respond by saying in this foreign NYC, Punisher might be smart enough to KNOW he's being flushed out, and inturn might only come out to play when he is certain of a chance at a face off with Joker.? Im sure you'll agree Frank Castle seeing through a trap is not too unreasonable.
UNLESS of course, (2) Joker is NOT trying to Flush out Frank, and thus just killing for fun..well then i must ask, again, what that has to do with Killing Frank himself?
but in response yo the points you made i would go with (1)
Originally posted by Juk3nIt wasn't my example, I believe that's what they were alluding to... but you think Frank would just let just a bunch of crazies run around killing and maining endlessly?
So you're saying Joker "jokerizes" some people to Flush out Punisher?oki, i can except that as an example, (1) i might respond by saying in this foreign NYC, Punisher might be smart enough to KNOW he's being flushed out, and inturn might only come out to play when he is certain of a chance at a face off with Joker.? Im sure you'll agree Frank Castle seeing through a trap is not too unreasonable.
UNLESS of course, (2) Joker is NOT trying to Flush out Frank, and thus just killing for fun..well then i must ask, again, what that has to do with Killing Frank himself?
but in response yo the points you made i would go with (1)
Originally posted by Juntai
I believe a few hundred or thousand people running around Jokerized, KILLING innocents, would certainly make Punisher want to bust some caps and thus give himself up.And as I said earlier, Joker is a crackshot assassin. His gunhand is fast too.
Frank has been able to spot traps and snipers through his training. 😬
Originally posted by xmarksthespotBecause we're starting in a city that has no Joker hideouts or stashes for which he can simply draw from. Other than his flower, he has to make it from scratch. Joker Venom is made from highly specific chemicals and from everything I've seen or researched, the most prevalent form of producing hydrogen cyanide requires stuff like 1000 degree temperatures and platinum. It's a restricted chemical in and of itself according to weapons conventions and must be reported.
Where exactly did I say he was going to use his base amount of Joker Venom into a school sprinkler (notwithstanding I said mall sprinkler.) Why do we propose that Joker is incapable of making something he's shown himself well capable of? What on earth did your second paragraph have anything to do with anything I wrote? Not being any situation I've written and thus a strawman?I have access to hydrogen cyanide and rat poison, ergo strychnine.
Strychnodide isn't even real so it's not lying around. So somehow Joker has to not only obtain strychnine but also derive strychnodide from this strychnine. What kind of equipment is required for this distillation? Is this equipment readily accessible in some New York University lab room?
You don't have to answer these questions directly. If you can, great! But there's probably no way to answer them. All I need to see in lieu of this is Joker concocting this Joker venom using normal chemicals without any need for special equipment from Batman comics. You referenced him making Joker Venom out of an Arkham collar. That's close, but there are no Arkham collars in this neutral New York City.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotI am not avoiding what you're writing at all. You're the one that's dodging my questions. "A few pages ago, you said Joker could simply hold the city for ransom or poison NYC's entire water supply. Ok, how does he do it?" If you've backed away from such conclusory suggestions, then say so and I'll drop it. You haven't done so yet and have merely dodged, so I'm still asking the same question. Moving past that and even assuming he could poison hundreds or thousands of children or innocents, "Do you really expect Punisher to walk out into the open and contain the chaos of a bomb that's already set off so Joker can take an easy clean shot at him?" Because that's what you were suggesting in your toned down scenario. Indeed, even Juntai seems to suggest it.
I put forward traps that Joker could set, or things he could do. I didn't say that Punisher would necessarily fall for them all. Things to provoke Punisher into potentially dangerous situations, without having to reveal oneself. I'm sure that whatever the Joker would do would be more creative, deadly and ingenious than anything I can conjure.At this point you're not reading what I'm writing anyway and I don't particularly feel like being talked down to by someone who thinks opaque reflective metal eyes can suffer normal human lens abnormalities to prevent them properly focusing light. Or that it'll be a piece of cake to find one genius supervillain among 8 million people, if he doesn't want to be found.
You've ridiculed other posters' assertions that Punisher would somehow magically find Joker in his sniper rifle's crosshairs and shoot him. But how is your toned down scenario any different? Punisher magically loses all reason and jumps out into the open amongst hundreds of Jokerized citizens he can't hope to cure anyway? I'm not avoiding your post at all. I'm attacking the reasoning that underlies it. Answer the questions.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Why would he?I've already told you about some of the easy to acquire items.
Aluminum comes from cans, Zinc can be retrieved from batteries, fertilizer provides the Potassium Sulphate.
Batteries, aluminum cans, and fertilizer are not going to put him on the radar.
And again why would he need manpower?
Stop setting up limits on the character that doesn't exist.. Go read the damned comics. Peaches, hydrogen peroxide,
Hair dye contains lead acetate...
Is hair dye going to put him on the radar?
By the time he's "on the radar" It'll be too late.
And it looks like the mod ruling has handicapped Punisher as well. Its true people just assumed it was Marvel's NYC, but it doesn't say that it is.. Could be our own world then.
All of Punisher's resources have dried up as well. Level playing field.
What you have shown me is that everyday chemical can be used to create dangerous substances. That does not prove that he doesnt need alot to take down the whole city.
The Joker does not bother to cover his face and is going to ahve to cimmit alot of crimes in a week to posion the city. The more crime he commits the more likely hes going to give himself away.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0You've ridiculed other posters' assertions that Punisher would somehow magically find Joker in his sniper rifle's crosshairs and shoot him. But how is your toned down scenario any different? Punisher magically loses all reason and jumps out into the open amongst hundreds of Jokerized citizens he can't hope to cure anyway? I'm not avoiding your post at all. I'm attacking the reasoning that underlies it. Answer the questions.
😄 Agreed.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
I doubt that his training involves the mindset of the Joker.
LOl hes spotted the same traps Joker has used. Hell Juntai said Joker was good with guns, what was he implying...sniper. Punisher has spotted snipers many a time.
Originally posted by Juk3n
[B]this is the truth ^, and they both get there standard equipment, so theres Punishers Munitions, Joker gets his too./B]
Nope. Joker gets the shirt on his back and Punisher gets all the resources he has in NYC.
Originally posted by Phantom Zonehttp://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15bp4.jpg
What
The Joker does not bother to cover his face
Originally posted by llagrok
Where was this stated?
Its based in NYC doesnt Punsiher have bases in NYC
Originally posted by Juntai
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15bp4.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16ed7.jpg
http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17jv0.jpg
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Joker didnt bother to cover his face when he kidnapped the mayor.
Joker didnt bother to cover his face when dealing aith nuclear arms.
As far as im awar Jokernever disguised himself the whole No Mans Land arc. 😐
