Originally posted by Avlon
Performing independent actions simultaneously in 2 different cities easily proves that Supes is a lot faster than Carver gives him credit for.http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff144/KMCSuperman/c16.jpg
wasnt this during the time that he said that he couldnt go light speed.
By the way, its not only just superman that I talk about when it come to combat speed. I say the same thing against gladiator who could be hit by hulk, wonder woman, martian manhunter (unless he use his other ability), hyperion, mimic. All of these characters isnt running circles around anyone because again they have been hit by far less characters then lets say juggernaut and hulk. Just go to the wonder woman vs hulk thread, everything that I have said about superman I have also said about her. Go to the martian manhunter vs Juggernaut thread, I have said the same thing about him also. Go to the wolverine vs mimic thread you would see the same words. I have no hate for superman or any other character that I say this about, I just go by on panel showings in which you all throw out the window and on each of these characters they get beaten by far less bricks that you pit them against. I agree, they have displayed some combat speed but them being beaten up and hit by bricks outweighs there speed showings.
Just my opinion though, I can post my arguments but you dont have to agree.
Originally posted by Avlon
This is afterwards.And when he referred to lightspeed...he was referring to a Zeta beam, which is far, far faster than standard light.
Agree with the zeta beam statement but that wasnt how he put it. He said that the beam goes the speed of light and I think that he said that he goes nowhere near that speed. I have the comic at home, Ill look at it because you could be right.
Originally posted by carver9
By the way, its not only just superman that I talk about when it come to combat speed. I say the same thing against gladiator who could be hit by hulk, wonder woman, martian manhunter (unless he use his other ability), hyperion, mimic. All of these characters isnt running circles around anyone because again they have been hit by far less characters then lets say juggernaut and hulk. Just go to the wonder woman vs hulk thread, everything that I have said about superman I have also said about her. Go to the martian manhunter vs Juggernaut thread, I have said the same thing about him also. Go to the wolverine vs mimic thread you would see the same words. I have no hate for superman or any other character that I say this about, I just go by on panel showings in which you all throw out the window and on each of these characters they get beaten by far less bricks that you pit them against. I agree, they have displayed some combat speed but them being beaten up and hit by bricks outweighs there speed showings.Just my opinion though, I can post my arguments but you dont have to agree.
I agree that charcters like Wonderwoman and MM dont really have battle speed. Heck i hve asked for scans displaying such and instead i got scans of her flying across the planet lol. Howver i dont think the same applies for superman who ive seen on a few occassions display good battle speed when he really lets go.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
I agree that charcters like Wonderwoman and MM dont really have battle speed. Heck i hve asked for scans displaying such and instead i got scans of her flying across the planet lol. Howver i dont think the same applies for superman who ive seen on a few occassions display good battle speed when he really lets go.
You do realize that wonder woman and superman are equals, you cant give credit to one without giving credit to the other and that still dont get rid of the fact that Superman along with the rest have been downed by bricks. Hell superman entire rogue gallery almost consist of nothing but bricks.
The only way things could possibly be convincing is if you had some kind of on panel proof showing that superman purposely let Kalibak down him, or he purposely let Konvikt one shot him, or he purposely let darksied physically out fight him (please dont say that darksied has combat speed, it has already been proven otherwise), or you could prove that he purposely let shaggy man physically almost beat him and step on his head. Wonderwoman has some amazing speed feats like jumping around the world and actually tagging the flash and zoom, along with deflecting bullet etc.. but I think that hulk or juggernaut would crush her. She has shown along with superman that they are capable of being hit by bricks. The best combat speed feat that I can think of with superman was when he was creating sonic booms with his punches but the thing about that was that his entire body was visible.
The best combat feat that I can find with gladiator is when he fought sam and he punched so fast and hard that it was going to send sam to the center of the earth but his body was still visible. Good showings for both but again all of there showings against bricks throws that out of the window.
Originally posted by carver9
You do realize that wonder woman and superman are equals, you cant give credit to one without giving credit to the other and that still dont get rid of the fact that Superman along with the rest have been downed by bricks. Hell superman entire rogue gallery almost consist of nothing but bricks.The only way things could possibly be convincing is if you had some kind of on panel proof showing that superman purposely let Kalibak down him, or he purposely let Konvikt one shot him, or he purposely let darksied physically out fight him (please dont say that darksied has combat speed, it has already been proven otherwise), or you could prove that he purposely let shaggy man physically almost beat him and step on his head. Wonderwoman has some amazing speed feats like jumping around the world and actually tagging the flash and zoom, along with deflecting bullet etc.. but I think that hulk or juggernaut would crush her. She has shown along with superman that they are capable of being hit by bricks. The best combat speed feat that I can think of with superman was when he was creating sonic booms with his punches but the thing about that was that his entire body was visible.
The best combat feat that I can find with gladiator is when he fought sam and he punched so fast and hard that it was going to send sam to the center of the earth but his body was still visible. Good showings for both but again all of there showings against bricks throws that out of the window.
Wonderwoman and superman IMO are certainly not equals. Using feats, supes is superior. And actually it was the sonic boom feat that convinced me that supes had battle speed. Why supes does not use it all the time i dont really know but i think it has to do with plot mostly. As for wonderwoman i dont evn want to get started with that as ive seen almost no proof of her speed in sustained physical combat.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
WW and Supes are NOT equals.
Supes can just break her lasso anytime he wants to.
And we are talking about Superman-Prime here, the strongest form of Superman, much stronger than Tangent Superman.SMP has NO weaknesses. He'll soon break free from the the entrapment of the Green Lantern Corps.
So superman can break her lasso, do you have any proof of this. Hell I think WWH is one of the strongest being out there (next to gladiator) but I have yet to imagine him breaking ww lasso. 🙁
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Wonderwoman and superman IMO are certainly not equals. Using feats, supes is superior. And actually it was the sonic boom feat that convinced me that supes had battle speed. Why supes does not use it all the time i dont really know but i think it has to do with plot mostly. As for wonderwoman i dont evn want to get started with that as ive seen almost no proof of her speed in sustained physical combat.
Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed. I agree he can punch very fast, hell the guy can catch bullets and you cant deny that wonder woman dont have incredible punching speed either. So if your using punching speed for superman then you cant say that wonder woman dont have any combat speed because her hands move in blurs all the time. 🙁
And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.
Originally posted by carver9
Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed.
It specifically said he was moving so fast that he was crating sonic booms, not punching. Superman wasn't even shown punching anyone in that panel.
Originally posted by carver9
And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.
Good. Then you should have no problem providing me with a source where a DC Comics employee says Superman and Wonder Woman are equals.
Originally posted by carver9
Agree with the zeta beam statement but that wasnt how he put it. He said that the beam goes the speed of light and I think that he said that he goes nowhere near that speed. I have the comic at home, Ill look at it because you could be right.
No, he just said he wasn’t faster than light, when Adam Strange asked him to outrace the Zeta Beam. He didn’t say anything about not being able to move anywhere near that speed.
Originally posted by carver9
Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed. I agree he can punch very fast, hell the guy can catch bullets and you cant deny that wonder woman dont have incredible punching speed either. So if your using punching speed for superman then you cant say that wonder woman dont have any combat speed because her hands move in blurs all the time. 🙁And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.
That is sort of true. Wonderwoman howver i hve yet to see her display this her punching speed in sustained physical combat against another being. And i hve also seen scans on this forum of superman attacking an opponet at superspeed. Though not that definitive cuz no speed or anythin could be determined i took it as proof enough that he can attack with at least some degree of speed. And as for wonderwoman and supes being equal, if DC wants to make them, equal they should give wonderwoman more feats on par with supermans.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
That is sort of true. Wonderwoman howver i hve yet to see her display this her punching speed in sustained physical combat against another being. And i hve also seen scans on this forum of superman attacking an opponet at superspeed. Though not that definitive cuz no speed or anythin could be determined i took it as proof enough that he can attack with at least some degree of speed. And as for wonderwoman and supes being equal, if DC wants to make them, equal they should give wonderwoman more feats on par with supermans.
I totally agree, I think that superman could attack an opponent at super speed, I agree that everyone on the list can attack everyone at super speed but having the ability to continously do it during combat, I have yet to witness that. I have yet to see any of them do a continous speed blitz and just disappear from the opponents site but hey I havent read every hero/villian comic book out there so they might have done it.
Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back. That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal and then she stalemated doomsday, something that even superman couldnt do.
She displays punching speed everytime she deflected bullets that are coming at her. She has to be moving pretty fast to perform that feat.
Originally posted by carver9
So superman can break her lasso, do you have any proof of this. Hell I think WWH is one of the strongest being out there (next to gladiator) but I have yet to imagine him breaking ww lasso. 🙁
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10745996
If a nobody can break her lasso, Supes sure as hell can
Originally posted by carver9
Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back.
He was only near the sun for a few seconds, whatever amp he got wasn't all that significant. She was only holding back when she attacked him on Earth, after she had taken advantage of his super-hearing. That's when it was stated she was holding back, for that assualt.
Originally posted by carver9
That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal
No, this proved that she could survive against a Superman that wanted to make her suffer before he killer her. She was getting her ass kicked for most the fight, and was tryiing to buy enough time to either get the lasso around Superman or get to Max Lord.
Originally posted by carver9
she stalemated doomsday something that even superman couldnt do.
Right, Superman only defeated Doomsday right after OWAW. Stalemating him would be so much better. Oh, and Wonder Woman didn't stalemate the real Doomsday. When she did fight a legitimate version of Doomsday she was beaten. As far as I know she hasn't beaten a real version of Doomsday, only clones, and people transformed into Doomsday like beings.
Originally posted by carver9
I totally agree, I think that superman could attack an opponent at super speed, I agree that everyone on the list can attack everyone at super speed but having the ability to continously do it during combat, I have yet to witness that. I have yet to see any of them do a continous speed blitz and just disappear from the opponents site but hey I havent read every hero/villian comic book out there so they might have done it.Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back. That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal and then she stalemated doomsday, something that even superman couldnt do.
She displays punching speed everytime she deflected bullets that are coming at her. She has to be moving pretty fast to perform that feat.
I just relooked at that sonic boom scan and saw that supes actually did show battle speed and not punching speed. And as i said wonderwoman has yet to show such speed againt a person in sustained physical combat. Im not talking about blocking bullets.
Originally posted by Rorschach
He was only near the sun for a few seconds, whatever amp he got wasn't all that significant. She was only holding back when she attacked him on Earth, after she had taken advantage of his super-hearing. That's when it was stated she was holding back, for that assualt.No, this proved that she could survive against a Superman that wanted to make her suffer before he killer her. She was getting her ass kicked for most the fight, and was tryiing to buy enough time to either get the lasso around Superman or get to Max Lord.
Right, Superman only defeated Doomsday right after OWAW. Stalemating him would be so much better. Oh, and Wonder Woman didn't stalemate the real Doomsday. When she did fight a legitimate version of Doomsday she was beaten. As far as I know she hasn't beaten a real version of Doomsday, only clones, and people transformed into Doomsday like beings.
How do you know it was a few seconds and even if it was it was still a amp. And how do you think she got that ear tag, did he let her, no she used skill and it never said that she was holding back due to him being hit in the ear she stated that she was holding back which could have meant the entire fight.
She wasnt getting her assed kicked, he blitzed her and she basically struggled to get out of a hold that she had on him but once they got on earth the tides changed.
why the hell am I arguing over who is better out of the two anyway, it dont matter, I like both of the characters. Just forget I ever brought her up.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
I just relooked at that sonic boom scan and saw that supes actually did show battle speed and not punching speed. And as i said wonderwoman has yet to show such speed againt a person in sustained physical combat. Im not talking about blocking bullets.
How do you explain the people that he was fighting still being able to see him. I guess they move at super sonic speed also. Can you show me the scan again, I had the comic but lost it.
Wonderwoman tagging zoom and flash proves that she has punching speed. If she was to fight quicksilver, do you think that she would be able to tag him.
Just want to know because even though him and her use there speed in a totally different way I still think that she has the ability to hit him.
Originally posted by carver9
How do you explain the people that he was fighting still being able to see him. I guess they move at super sonic speed also. Can you show me the scan again, I had the comic but lost it.Wonderwoman tagging zoom and flash proves that she has punching speed. If she was to fight quicksilver, do you think that she would be able to tag him.
Just want to know because even though him and her use there speed in a totally different way I still think that she has the ability to hit him.
Tagging someone does not mean u can engage in sustained physical combat at high speeds with that person. Tagging a person is not an indicator of battle speed. Obviously i think she would be able to hit him but not go head to head with him at superspeed.
