Trion Juggernaut vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool now let me ask you this, what kind of control was Trion showing when he was jumping around? Was he actually selecting his destinations or was it all pretty much random?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Traveling to a different universe is still different than time travel. If Surfer sends Jugg's to the future and Jugg's punches his way into another universe, he's still BFR'd. Thor was still teleporting to things like other dimensions long after he lost his ability to actually travel through time.

Ah, I got my versions of Jugg's mixed up, my bad. So since it's oblivious that the details of the Trion ordeal are a bit hazy in my mind, who DID Trion Jugg's one shot? Punching through dimensional barriers is an undoubtedly impressive feat(just as it is for Superboy Prime), but unquantifiable feats of it's kind are in no way unheard of. That single feat isn't enough to convince me that Trion one shot's someone with Surfer's level of durability.

And you're welcome to that opinion, but the Forum Rules don't support it.

I understand about the time travel but if he can do all of this easily then he should be able to time travel.

Superboy prime feat and trion feat is totally different. Superman prime hands appeared to be leaning towards something physical, so his punches was basically hitting something on a physical plane (the feat is still impressive) whereas trion was punching through thin air.

I agree with that being my opinion thats why when I post things about bricks hitting surfer etc... my last remarks is "that my opinion though".

Originally posted by carver9
I understand about the time travel but if he can do all of this easily then he should be able to time travel.

Originally posted by carver9
Superboy prime feat and trion feat is totally different. Superman prime hands appeared to be leaning towards something physical, so his punches was basically hitting something on a physical plane (the feat is still impressive) whereas trion was punching through thin air.

Tell you what, you think Jugg's feat was uber impressive because he was able to pierce space/time through strength alone right? Well Surfer's been able to tear holes in space/time through speed alone for years now. So what makes you think Jugg's will be able to withstand a bullrush from Surfer at full-speed?

Originally posted by Galan007
That's more or less what I was getting at. It's obvious that Juggs could have time traveled, based on what was shown/stated. But the fact is, he never showed us enough control over those abilities to say it's a feasible option for him in a vs. battle [in a 'reasonible' amount of time, of course]. He simply busted wildly through dimensional planes, without a care as to where he ended up.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But as Galan just pointed out, Jugg's never showed any control in regards to his ability to jump around. You're basically wagering that out of the infinite number of possible dimensions/timeline's Jugg's jumps to after he's BFR'd, he'll just HAPPEN to make it back to the battlefield.

The feats are different, but they're still comparable. Trion's method of delivery was more impressive, but the effects of SBP's punches was greater. Unquantifiable feats are just that, unquantifiable. The quantum mechanics behind those feats are beyond the human mind to comprehend so it's outright impossible to determine which feat is actually more impressive because we don't have the vaguest idea of just how strong someone would have to be to do either of them.

Tell you what, you think Jugg's feat was uber impressive because he was able to pierce space/time through strength alone right? Well Surfer's been able to tear holes in space/time through speed alone for years now. So what makes you think Jugg's will be able to withstand a bullrush from Surfer at full-speed?

Good points.

The answer to your question about trion being able to take surfer flying at him at tremendous speed is basically revolving around trions durability. Think of it like this (I know I have brought this up a lot), Thor hit classic juggernaut with the god force but juggernaut didnt even feel it, the only thing that he was trying to accomplish was walking through it but galactus was hit by the same blast and screamed in pain and fled the planet due to not being able to take the blast.

Now my question to you is do you think surfer is > a hungry galactus?

Originally posted by carver9
Good points.

The answer to your question about trion being able to take surfer flying at him at tremendous speed is basically revolving around trions durability. Think of it like this (I know I have brought this up a lot), Thor hit classic juggernaut with the god force but juggernaut didnt even feel it, the only thing that he was trying to accomplish was walking through it but galactus was hit by the same blast and screamed in pain and fled the planet due to not being able to take the blast.

Now my question to you is do you think surfer is > a hungry galactus?

It would depend on how hungry Galactus is. In the instance you mentioned involving Thor for example, Galactus wasn't just hungry. He STARTED OFF hungry and then went through a massive battle with Ego before Thor nailed him with the Godblast so it's difficult to tell just how powerful he was when it happened. But I'm pretty sure I HAVE seen a hungry Galactus put on his ass by the Thing before so I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of instances of Surfer being portrayed in a better light(unless you disagree that Surfer>Thing).

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would depend on how hungry Galactus is. In the instance you mentioned involving Thor for example, Galactus wasn't just hungry. He STARTED OFF hungry and then went through a massive battle with Ego before Thor nailed him with the Godblast so it's difficult to tell just how powerful he was when it happened. But I'm pretty sure I HAVE seen a hungry Galactus put on his ass by the Thing before so I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of instances of Surfer being portrayed in a better light(unless you disagree that Surfer>Thing).

Wasnt it a hungry galactus that destroyed a solar system? How much of galactus energy does he put into his heralds when creating them and what percentage does galactus be at when he isnt fully powered. 50% or 10% and if its 50% are you saying that surfer is just that strong. Are you saying that surfer is half of what galactus is, if yes, I disagree.

I agree with you, thing shouldnt be putting galactus on his a** but black panther shouldnt be putting surfer in a arm lock. Both examples are pis. I dont even think that thing is 1% of galactus power but hey thing has some amazing feats under his belt like cracking the champions ribs.

Another question, when galactus is hungry, I know that it takes away from his overrall power but does it also take away from his durability. I dont think that there is any on panel proof saying this.

Originally posted by carver9
Wasnt it a hungry galactus that destroyed a solar system? How much of galactus energy does he put into his heralds when creating them and what percentage does galactus be at when he isnt fully powered. 50% or 10% and if its 50% are you saying that surfer is just that strong. Are you saying that surfer is half of what galactus is, if yes, I disagree.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you, thing shouldnt be putting galactus on his a** but black panther shouldnt be putting surfer in a arm lock. Both examples are pis. I dont even think that thing is 1% of galactus power but hey thing has some amazing feats under his belt like cracking the champions ribs.

Originally posted by carver9
Another question, when galactus is hungry, I know that it takes away from his overrall power but does it also take away from his durability. I dont think that there is any on panel proof saying this.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).

What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

QUOTE=10803320]Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

The only things that I have seen that dropped juggernaut has been sonics which has basically had an affect towards a lot of top tiers. But besides that, no, I havent witness anything under a god force taking jugz down. Besides telepath has he ever been taken down.

Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).

agreed

What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

That wasnt the point of my question, I wanted to know was there any proof that stated that galactus durability drops once he is weakened. I understand his power dropping but what about his durability? I have seen a hungry galactus stalemate the phoenix, so he cant be that weak. This is my first time using this quote thing so I hope it came out right. If it didnt I'll retype everything.

Originally posted by carver9
QUOTE=10803320]Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]No I'm saying that Surfer's "average" showings are more impressive than some of Galactus's showings while he's hungry. Thus using the Thor/Galactus encounter as a reference as to whether or not Surfer could hurt Juggernaut discussion is a flawed train of thought because Galactus was hungry and weakened at the time. Let me ask you this, has Jugg's ever been hurt or taken out by less than Thor's Godblast?

Wrong rule actually, Thing/Galactus and Black Panther/Surfer fall more under the category of SvFL than PIS(though both did contain elements of PIS).

What more proof do you need than bad showings when he's hungry and the knowledge that he's less powerful at the time?

I did it backward darth, just read whats in the box. Trying to learn how to use it.

Originally posted by carver9
The only things that I have seen that dropped juggernaut has been sonics which has basically had an affect towards a lot of top tiers. But besides that, no, I havent witness anything under a god force taking jugz down. Besides telepath has he ever been taken down.

Originally posted by carver9
That wasnt the point of my question, I wanted to know was there any proof that stated that galactus durability drops once he is weakened. I understand his power dropping but what about his durability? I have seen a hungry galactus stalemate the phoenix, so he cant be that weak. This is my first time using this quote thing so I hope it came out right. If it didnt I'll retype everything.

I'm almost positive there has been even though I can't think of a specific instance off the top of my head. If nothing else I can all but guarantee there's been off hand comments to the effect of "He's weakened, now we can stop him".

Originally posted by carver9
I did it backward darth, just read whats in the box. Trying to learn how to use it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And what, you don't think Surfer could whip up some ultra powerful sonics if it became necessary? And Surfer has telepathy...

And what, you don't think Surfer could whip up some ultra powerful sonics if it became necessary? And Surfer has telepathy...

He might could whip up something on regular jugz but since trion is so far above jugs I dont think that the same trick would work on him. If surfer by some amazing miracle control the crunch again, thats about the only way I could see him winning.

I'm almost positive there has been even though I can't think of a specific instance off the top of my head. If nothing else I can all but guarantee there's been off hand comments to the effect of "He's weakened, now we can stop him".

I havent seen anything in a galactus book ever stating anything about his durability dipleating but hey, you might be right. Again a hungry galactus fought phoenix AND a weakened galactus was holding his own against tenebrous. I could have sworn that a weakened galactus also defeated ego the planet on numerous of occasions and fought off thanos and could have killed him whenever he wanted.

Don't worry about it. It can be kinda tricky until you get the hang of it.

I think I found out how to do it thanks though.

Originally posted by carver9
He might could whip up something on regular jugz but since trion is so far above jugs I dont think that the same trick would work on him. If surfer by some amazing miracle control the crunch again, thats about the only way I could see him winning.

Originally posted by carver9
I havent seen anything in a galactus book ever stating anything about his durability dipleating but hey, you might be right. Again a hungry galactus fought phoenix AND a weakened galactus was holding his own against tenebrous. I could have sworn that a weakened galactus also defeated ego the planet on numerous of occasions and fought off thanos and could have killed him whenever he wanted.

But yeah he does have some good showings depending on just how hungry he is at the time, the point I was making is that he was EXTREMELY hungry and weakened when Thor ran him off.

If sonics aren't dependant on durability then it wouldn't matter if Jugg's was more powerful would it? And was it specifically stated that Jugg's was more durable or resistant to telepathy in the arc?

I know sonics is something that doesnt impacts the durability but when nimrod used sonics against juggernaut he had to remove his helmet to do so. So if his helmet still on and his forcefield up (which he barely use) then nimrods attempts would have been flawed.

Actually Galactus has one win, one loss, and one win with help against Ego. The first time they fought Galactus won after a hard fight and was then driven off by Ego, then latter Ego tracked Galactus down and Galactus ran away to get Thor's help, and then in the last fight Thor helped distract Ego long enough for Galactus to attach a propulsion device to Ego's south pole. And when Galactus and Thanos momentarily butted heads, Galactus was specifically stated as being well nourished(that's why the blast feat is so impressive for Thanos).

Agreed and understood but I guess we will never know that if galactus isnt at full power he lose his high durability. Thats the point of my post that I was making about galactus battles. Even though he was hungry, he was holding off beings that could destroy a solar system at a whim or crush planets with a thought. So im guessing that if he was able to stand against there crushing might then he should have stood just fine against the god force if he could take as much punishment as trion who again is>>>>>>classic juggernaut.

But yeah he does have some good showings depending on just how hungry he is at the time, the point I was making is that he was EXTREMELY hungry and weakened when Thor ran him off.

So with this post youre basically saying that thor>> a weakened galactus because he basically one shotted him. I can agree with him being damaged by thors attack but I dont care how weak galactus is thor would never pull of even one of the feats that galactus has pulled in a weakened state.

Originally posted by carver9
I know sonics is something that doesnt impacts the durability but when nimrod used sonics against juggernaut he had to remove his helmet to do so. So if his helmet still on and his forcefield up (which he barely use) then nimrods attempts would have been flawed.

Originally posted by carver9
Agreed and understood but I guess we will never know that if galactus isnt at full power he lose his high durability. Thats the point of my post that I was making about galactus battles. Even though he was hungry, he was holding off beings that could destroy a solar system at a whim or crush planets with a thought. So im guessing that if he was able to stand against there crushing might then he should have stood just fine against the god force if he could take as much punishment as trion who again is>>>>>>classic juggernaut.

Originally posted by carver9
So with this post youre basically saying that thor>> a weakened galactus because he basically one shotted him. I can agree with him being damaged by thors attack but I dont care how weak galactus is thor would never pull of even one of the feats that galactus has pulled in a weakened state.

Trion juggernaut had no control over the power or his actions. It's more of an impressive feat for Cyttorak than it was for Juggs since he was amped with a mere fraction of Cyttoraks power and getting more and more powerful.

SS's brand of telepathy would never work on Trion Juggernaut. Chucks brand didn't even work. SS can't win this fight.

I'm sure Delph can come up with at least 10 ways for Surfer to win.

Well, being that herald levels of the power cosmic bounce off Classic Juggernaut like they're nothing. He can try, I guess.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Trion juggernaut had no control over the power or his actions. It's more of an impressive feat for Cyttorak than it was for Juggs since he was amped with a mere fraction of Cyttoraks power and getting more and more powerful.

SS's brand of telepathy would never work on Trion Juggernaut. Chucks brand didn't even work. SS can't win this fight.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure there is, what would Jugg's do if Surfer sent him into the far future? I know he was supposed to be tearing down the walls of time and space with his punches but did he ever use the ability to actually time travel?