Bob Lee Swagger versus Batman

Originally posted by Darth Martin
No but it has ran through numerous concrete obsticles and in "The Dark Knight" The Tumbler took a shot from The Joker's RPG! If it can take that, a 50. Cal round shouldn't be much. Also in the begginning of the film it took a barrage of bullets from automatic weapons from some thugs when it was in the "Loiter" mode. In the major chase scene it took a massive truck full on, still attaining it's current speed and it didn't appear damaged.

Fact: The Tumbler is bulletproof.

Even if the Batmobile's armor can withstand it, it's tires surely cannot. No tires=Immobile Batmobile.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Imagine away, but we havent seen the Batmobile stand up to a .50 caliber rifle round, have we? It shoots through an inch of STEEL, man.

AND it hasn't been proven that the Batmobiles armor can stand up to such a powerful round, have we?

This is a simple yes or no question.

Let's see, the Tumbler was originally conceived as a military vehicle and it was designed so the tyres could absorb the several tons on weight jumping long distances. So it really isn't a far stretch that the tyres aren't ordinary tyres filled with air. Also, as I noted, the foam in tyres is currently used by the military and other special purpose vehicles. It doesn't make them bullet proof, just they don't go flat when punctured.

The Batmobile crashes through walls, cars and speeding dump-trucks without sustaining even a dent, it's safe to assume that it is built/protected like a tank and then some. It withstood a direct hit from an RPG and still keep going for a bit, that should be a testament to it's durability.

Also of note, you can buy (with enough $$$) commercially enough bullet-proof protection for a car to withstand armour-piercing rounds, do you seriously think Batman would skimp-out because he didn't have the cash?

Edit:
The Guardian's armor is designed to defeat .50 caliber armor piercing ammunition, 12-pound anti-tank mines, and 155 mm artillery from 15 m above. Unlike some other designs which resemble conventional trucks, the armour is angled presenting no vertical surfaces, deflecting many Rocket Propelled Grenade hits. If an RPG does hit the vehicle directly, it can still function, although crew deaths and injuries will vary depending on where the RPG hits.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1117_Armored_Security_Vehicle

Originally posted by Robtard
Let's see, the Tumbler was originally conceived as a military vehicle and it was designed so the tyres could absorb the several tons on weight jumping long distances. So it really isn't a far stretch that the tyres aren't ordinary tyres filled with air. Also, as I noted, the foam in tyres is currently used by the military and other special purpose vehicles. It doesn't make them bullet proof, just they don't go flat when punctured.

The Batmobile crashes through walls, cars and speeding dump-trucks without sustaining even a dent, it's safe to assume that it is built/protected like a tank and then some. It withstood a direct hit from an RPG and still keep going for a bit, that should be a testament to it's durability.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Good point, but we are talking about what is shown in the movies only. No such "super foam" exists in the movies, does it? Even if it did, a .50 caliber rifle round is going to do much more than simply put a hole in the tire, it's going to shred it.

The tyres withstood gunfire (granted it wasn't .50 cal) and all sorts of impacts, whenever the Tumbler crashed through anything, be it wall, car or dumptruck, the tyres absorbed the hit first. Use a little deudctive reasoning and realize they couldn't be regular tyres.

Originally posted by Robtard
The tyres withstood gunfire (granted it wasn't .50 cal) and all sorts of impacts, whenever the Tumbler crashed through anything, be it wall, car or dumptruck, the tyres absorbed the hit first. Use a little deudctive reasoning and realize they couldn't be regular tyres.

Think on it this way: If someone hits you full force in the chest with a baseball bat, it's gonna do some damage, right? But, If someone runs you through with a sword, it's likely to cause far more damage.

Dude, you're being dense for the sake of being dense. There are military vehicles now with tyres that can absorb all matter of gun fire and landmines and keep truck'n on.

Do you seriously think Batman went cheap on the tyres of his car, even after seeing what they did withstand, which was gunfire and high impacts?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, if you have seen Shooter, the list is in your head, just as Batmans list is in my head. But, if it will cease your constant whining, here we go:

Whining? More like me being a stickler for fairness, boy.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
WEAPONRY/GEAR

.50 Caliber sniper rifle

Bolt Action Sniper rifle (Guessing it is a .308 caliber)

Assault Rifle, I believe it is an M4-A1 assault rifle

Sidearm (let's say glock .45)

Combat Knife

Garrote

Pipe Bombs (remote detonated)

Smoke bombs (remote detonated)

Ghille suit

Camouflage (whatever environment he is in he is virtually invisible)

Binoculars

U.S.M.C. M40A3 rifle.
Barrett M107 sniper rifle.
Beretta 92.
M4 carbine.
Colt M1911-A1.

Took that from your favourite site, Wikipedia. It's under the section where it tells you what he uses, I wanted to be specific.

Where does it cite claymores and shit? I'm not seeing that. So let's throw that barrage of claymores out of this battles.

Secondly, ghille suits and camo? Batman has fought and beat ninjas, he has all the technology and radar possible. A little paint and fake foliage will not puzzle him. Lest we forget Batman knows camo better than most, it's near supernatural. Binoculars aren't going to do anything, so let's weigh up exactly what he does have here.

Two sniper rifles, two pistols, a knife and an assault rifle. Those are the relevant weapons he has. Garotting Batman simply isn't an option.

So now we've established the Batmobile withstands 50. cals, where does Swagger go from here?

He doesn't have claymores, he has a few guns but can only hold one at a time, realistically, two of which are for distance only (Where Batman is simply not gonna be hit from). How does he win? Swagger I mean.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not to mention his counter intel training and hand to hand combat skills, tough as nails demeanor, or his amazing resourcefulness.

Counter-intel won't help him in this fight, ultimately, when all he has to rely on is weaponry. He's fighting Batman, not a terrorist group.

So it comes down to hand-to-hand combat, being tough and being resourceful, all of which Batman is better at. He's a better fighter, trained to the point of surpassing the League of Shadows, we don't need to express how tough his demeanour is, and as for resourcefulness, I doubt Swagger is as resourceful as the highest class of ninja.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did I miss anything?

The parts where you show, realistically why Swagger, in this progressively more balanced and fair scenario, wins.

So you can sit there saying "He'll shoot the tyres out!", when what? The Batmobile has missiles and weaponry, and he can't hit Batman while he's in it.

-AC

Also of note, you can buy (with enough $$$) commercially enough bullet-proof protection for a car to withstand armour-piercing rounds, do you seriously think Batman would skimp-out because he didn't have the cash?

to be fair that's not entirely accurate...the accuracy international AS50 fires rounds that easily pentrate grade 8 strengthened glass (the highest grade of bullet proof glass available)

Originally posted by jaden101
to be fair that's not entirely accurate...the accuracy international AS50 fires rounds that easily pentrate grade 8 strengthened glass (the highest grade of bullet proof glass available)

Glass armour fails after multiple impacts, but it does withstand initially.

Anyhow, Batman has the option of laying flat and using internal monitors to see where he's going, the position for a jump, which would move his head/chest out of harms way.

Edit: I looked it up, that is one seriously bad-ass rifle.
http://www.futurefirepower.com/the-british-accuracy-international-as50-bmg-sniper-rifle

Originally posted by Robtard

Edit: I looked it up, that is one seriously bad-ass rifle.
http://www.futurefirepower.com/the-british-accuracy-international-as50-bmg-sniper-rifle

haha...yep...sure is...5 .50 calibre rounds on a target accurately in just over a second....

but then the Barrett XM500 will be coming along soon as well

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Whining? More like me being a stickler for fairness, boy.

Boy? Yeah, that's helping alot. 🙄

U.S.M.C. M40A3 rifle.
Barrett M107 sniper rifle.
Beretta 92.
M4 carbine.
Colt M1911-A1.

Took that from your favourite site, Wikipedia. It's under the section where it tells you what he uses, I wanted to be specific.

Where does it cite claymores and shit? I'm not seeing that. So let's throw that barrage of claymores out of this battles.

I didnt list claymores, did I? I listed pipe bombs, which he is shown making from hand and using. And we all know what a pipe bomb can do, dont we? Remember when the terminator was shredded by one? Safe to say that a pipe bomb strategically placed on the road will render the batmobiles chassis a mangled mess, and will tear through Batmans armor like paper.

Secondly, ghille suits and camo? Batman has fought and beat ninjas, he has all the technology and radar possible. A little paint and fake foliage will not puzzle him. Lest we forget Batman knows camo better than most, it's near supernatural. Binoculars aren't going to do anything, so let's weigh up exactly what he does have here.

Hey, you said to list all gear and weaponry, didnt you? I was just being a "stickler", as you put it.

Two sniper rifles, two pistols, a knife and an assault rifle. Those are the relevant weapons he has. Garotting Batman simply isn't an option.

Along with every other thing I listed.

So now we've established the Batmobile withstands 50. cals, where does Swagger go from here?

Shoot out the tires. Batmobile with no tires is nothing more than a hunk of metal.

He doesn't have claymores, he has a few guns but can only hold one at a time, realistically, two of which are for distance only (Where Batman is simply not gonna be hit from). How does he win? Swagger I mean.

Explain how Batman will not be hit from afar. the bullet arrives far before the sound of the rifle shot, how is Batman gonna pull a Neo and dodge?

Counter-intel won't help him in this fight, ultimately, when all he has to rely on is weaponry. He's fighting Batman, not a terrorist group.

I beg to differ. The more you know about your opponent, the better your chances are of winning.

So it comes down to hand-to-hand combat, being tough and being resourceful, all of which Batman is better at. He's a better fighter, trained to the point of surpassing the League of Shadows, we don't need to express how tough his demeanour is, and as for resourcefulness, I doubt Swagger is as resourceful as the highest class of ninja.

You are still assuming Batman will become Neo, dodge sniper fire, AND the assault rifle. Batman aint in the matrix, you know.

The parts where you show, realistically why Swagger, in this progressively more balanced and fair scenario, wins.

So you can sit there saying "He'll shoot the tyres out!", when what? The Batmobile has missiles and weaponry, and he can't hit Batman while he's in it.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt list claymores, did I?

Originally posted by Röland
You changed it. You had claymores listed in a previous post then changed to pipe bombs.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt list claymores, did I? I listed pipe bombs, which he is shown making from hand and using. And we all know what a pipe bomb can do, dont we? Remember when the terminator was shredded by one? Safe to say that a pipe bomb strategically placed on the road will render the batmobiles chassis a mangled mess, and will tear through Batmans armor like paper.

You really need to stop coming to these absurd conclusions. A pipe-bomb was able to blow apart a robotic skeleton in two; it wasn't "shredded", the Terminator was still functioning and deadly, as the movie didn't end there.

Now, that certainly is no indication that a pipe-bomb would blow apart a vehicle armoured like the Batmobile. You're reaching has reached levels of insane desperation.

There are armoured limos than can withstand a pipebomb, but the Batmobile which can smash through dump trucks head-on is going to be taken out by some kitchen-made explosive?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

We havent estalished that the Batmobiles armor can withstand a .50 caliber rifle round. Where did we establish that?

I've shown you that there is armoured protection that can withstand .50, do you think it's logical that Batman would just make the vehicle resistant to small caliber rounds for shits-n-giggles? Even after seeing what it was able to hit/take and do so without a dent?

I didnt list claymores, did I? I listed pipe bombs, which he is shown making from hand and using. And we all know what a pipe bomb can do, dont we? Remember when the terminator was shredded by one? Safe to say that a pipe bomb strategically placed on the road will render the batmobiles chassis a mangled mess, and will tear through Batmans armor like paper.

i've made pipe bombs for fun...they're not as good as you think

Originally posted by Robtard
You really need to stop coming to these absurd conclusions. A pipe-bomb was able to blow apart a robotic skeleton in two; it wasn't "shredded", the Terminator was still functioning and deadly, as the movie didn't end there.

Now, that certainly is no indication that a pipe-bomb would blow apart a vehicle armoured like the Batmobile. You're reaching has reached levels on insane desperation.

There are armoured limos than can withstand a pipebomb, but the Batmobile which can smash through dump trucks head-on is going to be taken out by some kitchen-made explosive?

And I was just saying that the Terminator was blown in half, and it was made of metal that is surely more advanced and durable than the Batmobile is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt list claymores, did I? I listed pipe bombs, which he is shown making from hand and using. And we all know what a pipe bomb can do, dont we? Remember when the terminator was shredded by one? Safe to say that a pipe bomb strategically placed on the road will render the batmobiles chassis a mangled mess, and will tear through Batmans armor like paper.

Hahahaha, understatement of the year!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Shoot out the tires. Batmobile with no tires is nothing more than a hunk of metal.

That's just down right stupid and you know it. Everything the Batmobile takes and a pipe bomb blows it to shreds? Hahaha!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You are still assuming Batman will become Neo, dodge sniper fire, AND the assault rifle. Batman aint in the matrix, you know.

Just...stop...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt list claymores, did I? I listed pipe bombs, which he is shown making from hand and using. And we all know what a pipe bomb can do, dont we? Remember when the terminator was shredded by one? Safe to say that a pipe bomb strategically placed on the road will render the batmobiles chassis a mangled mess, and will tear through Batmans armor like paper.

How do you jump to those conclusions?

A single pipe bomb was wedged in the ribs of a frail robot, and you assume that means the Batmobile and Batman will therefore be blown to kingdom come, if they even hit is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, you said to list all gear and weaponry, didnt you? I was just being a "stickler", as you put it.

You were right to do so, thanks.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Along with every other thing I listed.

What else did you list? The list I posted was the one on the Shooter Wiki, and I did that for accuracy. It's good enough for you, it's good enough for me. There was no more to the list.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Shoot out the tires. Batmobile with no tires is nothing more than a hunk of metal.

With missiles and armour that Swagger can't penetrate, yeah.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Explain how Batman will not be hit from afar. the bullet arrives far before the sound of the rifle shot, how is Batman gonna pull a Neo and dodge?

The bullets can't penetrate the Batmobile, the Batmobile's weapons can penetrate...forest.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I beg to differ. The more you know about your opponent, the better your chances are of winning.

How, though? What do you think Swagger could know that would help? None of his weapons can harm Batman in the Batmobile, and he's not a target like anything Swagger has ever encountered.

Al Ghul didn't work out well.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You are still assuming Batman will become Neo, dodge sniper fire, AND the assault rifle. Batman aint in the matrix, you know.

Waits in the Batmobile and levels the entire forest, then shoots Swagger. What can Swagger do if he's in the Batmobile? Nothing.

Pipebombs? How? The Batmobile has thrusters that can make it jump.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
We havent estalished that the Batmobiles armor can withstand a .50 caliber rifle round. Where did we establish that?

The armour its modelled after, which I believe was the vehicle Robtard was showing you, can withstand it.

Anyway, he's a sniper, right? You think Batman is going to be driving straight? If you assume he can easily hit the tires or worse, Batman in the car, then you ARE being silly.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It all boils down to the maker of the pipe bomb. Certainly a Marine like Swagger can make a pipe bomb more deadly than, say, some untrained redneck in the woods.

And I was just saying that the Terminator was blown in half, and it was made of metal that is surely more advanced and durable than the Batmobile is.

Kyle Reese wasn't just some redneck, he was a highly trained guerrilla fighter. It's reasonable to believe his pipe-bombs were about as capable as could be.

The terminator may be from 20 years into the future, but it is still a skeletal robot, I doubt that thin metal frame is leaps and bounds more durable than a highly armoured combat vehicle.