Bob Lee Swagger versus Batman

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Someone who can make head shots from a mile out has no need for my faith in their abilities, the fact that they can make such a miraculous shot speaks volumes for their skills.

With Bob Lee's incredible marksmanship, yes, the Bat is essentially just another guy running through the woods.

He's not, he's Batman. Batman isn't just another guy. If anything, Swagger is just another sniper to Batman.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said he was an easy hit, not to an average man he isn't, but Swagger is far from an ordinary man.

So...you are saying it's an easy hit then? That's what I just said. You just attempted to dodge and then counter yourself, quite remarkable.

"You're saying it'd be an easy hit for Swagger, and implicitly, a one hit kill. So what's the point?", "I'm not saying it'd be an easy hit...not for a normal man, but Swagger isn't normal.". So, yes, what I said was right. You're saying Swagger would beat Batman easily with a one hit kill.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's slang for Batman, I am not the only one here who calls him the Bat.

I know, it just seems a bit too forced.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Swagger, despite his incredible aim, will miss with his sniper rifle, with his G36, and with his .45's? All the while Batman is avoiding the claymores Swagger has placed around him? When did Batman go from being a badass to being a God?

He didn't go FROM anything TO anything. There are people who have seen both characters movies and people who have seen them and not learned enough about the participants (Like you).

I never said he'd "miss" in the sense that he's a shit shot, I said he'd miss in the sense that Batman isn't an easy target. Swagger is one man, he's not a gundam. He can't use every gun at once. Batman, in a forest, could quite easily dodge his sniper abilities, or avoid them I should say. So Swagger would have to adapt to something less specific, and then Batman would beat him up and say "You're not Jason Bourne, you idiot.".

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you have no proof that the Batmobiles tires can't be shot out? With such a high powered weapon? Thought not.

Do you have proof they can? That's what I said. Neither of us has proof, but considering who made the Batmobile and the level of tech available, I'm not going to just assume they've got the tires that my dad uses on there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, and I was joking right back at you, do try and read between the lines.

You clearly weren't. I read the actual lines, try it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No doubt, but you seem to think Swagger has no chance whatsoever of hitting Batman at all, even with an assault rifle.

I do? Never said that no chance AT ALL. Just that the chances of him not hitting him grossly outweigh the opposite, and that's why I don't think he would. I just don't think he has a good chance of winning this fight at all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not in this matchup, no, I cant be convinced Batman could win.

Then the thread is more or less finished isn't it? You knew you could never be convinced, and you don't care what we have to say (And vice versa), so what was the point of the thread? You obviously never believed there could be any other outcome than the one you thought of.

Might as well PM to get the thread closed. Never mind, I'll do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He's not, he's Batman. Batman isn't just another guy. If anything, Swagger is just another sniper to Batman.

So...you are saying it's an easy hit then? That's what I just said. You just attempted to dodge and then counter yourself, quite remarkable.

He didn't go FROM anything TO anything. There are people who have seen both characters movies and people who have seen them and not learned enough about the participants (Like you).

I never said he's "miss" in the sense that he's a shit shot, I said he'd miss in the sense that Batman isn't an easy target. Swagger is one man, he's not a gundam. He can't use every gun at once. Batman, in a forest, could quite easily dodge his sniper abilities, or avoid them I should say. So Swagger would have to adapt to something less specific, and then Batman would beat him up and say "You're not Jason Bourne, you idiot.".

Do you have proof they can? That's what I said. Neither of us has proof, but considering who made the Batmobile and the level of tech available, I'm not going to just assume they've got the tires that my dad uses on there.

I do? Never said that. I just don't think he has a good chance of winning this fight at all.

Then the thread is more or less finished isn't it? You knew you could never be convinced, and you don't care what we have to say (And vice versa), so what was the point of the thread? You obviously never believed there could be any other outcome than the one you thought of.

Might as well PM to get the thread closed. Never mind, I'll do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Placidity

In the movie though, Bat's hasn't shown that he has air insertion capabilities. I'm guessing that he would go in by Batmobile, which would have tech to detect explosives/ mines/what have you. His Batmobile can also go invisible, so Bob wouldn't even see him coming. Again, he might hear him when he drives closer to his position. But at that point, everything is in Batman's favour.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure, just another sniper who can make mile long head shots, and can take on wave after wave of baddies. Watch the movie again, watch after he escapes the house after talking to the crippled Russian. This is a testemonial to his skills being far advanced that just some idiot sniper.

You didn't understand the context of my previous quote, did you? No.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'd say that to the average sniper it is a very difficult shot, but to Bob Lee it's as easy as breathing.

This is what I mean about you being genuinely stupid sometimes. I tell you that you are suggesting and implying that he'd beat Batman with a one hit kill, since you've said it would be easy. You then reply saying "I never said it'd be an easy shot...for a normal man, but Swagger isn't normal.". Why didn't you just say "Yes, that's what I believe."? Why go in a circle because you just don't want to agree with me?

My claim: You are saying it'd be an easy shot (For Swagger, obviously, since we're discussing him).
You: No, not for a normal man, but for Swagger.
Me: So...yes, then? You are agreeing that my summation is correct?
You: Not for an average sniper, but for Swagger.

What's the point of all that? We're talking about Swagger, "Yes" would have sufficed, RJ.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whats not to know about Batman? I have seen all the movies several times (not the Dark Knight yet) He is a badass ninja who wears armor, has cool gadgets, drives a cool car, who hunts down bad guys and brings them to justice.

Batman is a ninja? You must have gone into the wrong movie. Trained as one, maybe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So if Batman "dodged" his sniper fire, and Swagger unleashes a barrage of G36 fire at Batman, all the while Batman is disarming/avoiding explosives, Batman still gets close enough for hand to hand? Seems YOU are the one placing too much faith in someones abilities now.

I'm not, you're just interpreting what I say into very specific, ridiculous ways. I am not suggesting he'd sit there disarming bombs while taking a machine gun to the chest, am I? Who ever said anything about disarming anything? I said avoid. He can't use a sniper rifle if Batman gets close.

So then you say "He has an assault rifle.", so? So have the people he has fought in movies. "But they aren't Swagger!", again, so? Sniping is a special ability, using a machine gun isn't. His accuracy as a sniper wouldn't make a bit of difference with a machine gun. People with machine guns have been defeated by Batman before, Swagger is no different. So this comes down to you placing faith in his ability to kill Batman with one shot from a sniper rifle, in a forest. I don't think I need to go into how ridiculous that is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
....They are tires man, made of rubber.....

Presidential cars have runflats, you can get up to 500 miles on them even if they've been ruptured. You think Wayne Industries hasn't taken such things into account?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt know I could never be convinced, I mean that I haven't been convinced YET.

You said;

"I CAN'T be convinced Batman would win.". To me that says; "I can't be convinced Batman would win.". Not "I haven't been, yet.".

So there's no point to the thread, is there? I suggest you start saying what you mean. Not what you...don't mean, or just stop weaselling.

-AC

Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming.

Originally posted by Placidity
Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his [b]invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming. [/B]

Not to mention the fact that sound travels fast, Batman could hear the shot ring out and his reflexes would tell him to do a simple command. Somethng as simple as ducking ya know? To a normal man, the shot of a bullet firing would mean they should duck, they'd probably still get hit, since average reflexes probably won't be enough, but Batman's reflexes are on a different level.

Originally posted by Scythe
Not to mention the fact that sound travels fast, Batman could hear the shot ring out and his reflexes would tell him to do a simple command. Somethng as simple as ducking ya know? To a normal man, the shot of a bullet firing would mean they should duck, they'd probably still get hit, since average reflexes probably won't be enough, but Batman's reflexes are on a different level.

Actually, I believe most (probably all) .50 rounds travel at supersonic speeds. So if you were relying on hearing, you would get shot before the sound waves reached you. 😛

But, given this is done at night, muzzle flash would alert any observant target to shots being fired aswell as give away the position of the sniper.

Originally posted by Placidity
Actually, I believe most (probably all) .50 rounds travel at supersonic speeds. So if you were relying on hearing, you would get shot before the sound waves reached you. 😛

But, given this is done at night, muzzle flash would alert any observant target to shots being fired aswell as give away the position of the sniper.

Oh no, I meant for average firearms, not the sniper rifles, the sniper rifles can be easily dealt with due to him being in a freakin' forest setting, haha.

Originally posted by Placidity
Bobby hasn't taken any impressive shots in the movie that would help him beat Bats anyway IMO.

At the start, he takes out a few soldiers while they were moving in a truck. The thing is that they weren't aware of a sniper present. Batman would know.

From such a far distance, the bullet would take perhaps over a second to travel to its target. So, in a scenario which has its target moving, a sniper would have to shoot ahead of the target, to where he predicts the target would be in the next moment. Running around in an unpredictable manner (random zig zags) is one way of avoiding being hit.

Every other shot he has made in the film has been on mostly stationary targets, which Batman would not be.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Batman would be in his [b]invisible batmobile probably with landmine detection tech, which renders both his claymores and sniper shots a non-factor. Not that he would even see him coming. [/B]

The Bat can zig zag all he wants, eventually one of Swagger's shots will find it's mark. And if for some reason Swagger misses, he has his G36 to fall back on, and I'd like to see the Bat dodge a hail of rapid fire lead from such a marksman as Bob Lee. Not gonna happen.

So the Batmobile had explosive detectors, so what? Bob Lee will be able to detonate the claymores when he sees fit, it's not like he is gonna leave an open spot for the Bat to drive through. It's not like he will say "You know, I am gonna leave this spot open just for the hell of it."

Hahahahahaha, the sheer lunacy of this thread makes me laugh so hard.

I said his Batmobile is invisible. Bobby won't even know when he is coming.

You can't shoot a target (from a far distance) if you can't predict where he'd be in the next moment.

And theres no way Bobby can make a mile shot on a randomly moving target.

Batman is also wearing armour that will resist 5.56mm from the G36.

Originally posted by Scythe
the sniper rifles can be easily dealt with due to him being in a freakin' forest setting, haha.

True that... 😄

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not like he will say "You know, I am gonna leave this spot open just for the hell of it."

But somehow Batman is gonna effectively be so easy to fight that it's a one shot kill?

Yeah, pointless thread. Just leave the threadmaking to others, man.

-AC

Originally posted by Placidity
True that... 😄

It's amazing how given the event and location, RJ seems to be the only one going for poor ole Swagger.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You didn't understand the context of my previous quote, did you? No.

This is what I mean about you being genuinely stupid sometimes. I tell you that you are suggesting and implying that he'd beat Batman with a one hit kill, since you've said it would be easy. You then reply saying "I never said it'd be an easy shot...for a normal man, but Swagger isn't normal.". Why didn't you just say "Yes, that's what I believe."? Why go in a circle because you just don't want to agree with me?
My claim: You are saying it'd be an easy shot (For Swagger, obviously, since we're discussing him).
You: No, not for a normal man, but for Swagger.
Me: So...yes, then? You are agreeing that my summation is correct?
You: Not for an average sniper, but for Swagger.

What's the point of all that? We're talking about Swagger, "Yes" would have sufficed, RJ.

You want it in plain english? To an average sniper, Batman is a difficult, almost impossible shot. To Bob Lee, nailing Batman with a sniper rifle would be far less of a chore. Not a certain thing, but, unless Batman is lucky as hell, Bob Lee should be able to end this with a well placed head shot.

Batman is a ninja? You must have gone into the wrong movie. Trained as one, maybe.

[/b]

I'm not, you're just interpreting what I say into very specific, ridiculous ways. I am not suggesting he'd sit there disarming bombs while taking a machine gun to the chest, am I? Who ever said anything about disarming anything? I said avoid. He can't use a sniper rifle if Batman gets close.

So then you say "He has an assault rifle.", so? So have the people he has fought in movies. "But they aren't Swagger!", again, so? Sniping is a special ability, using a machine gun isn't. His accuracy as a sniper wouldn't make a bit of difference with a machine gun. People with machine guns have been defeated by Batman before, Swagger is no different. So this comes down to you placing faith in his ability to kill Batman with one shot from a sniper rifle, in a forest. I don't think I need to go into how ridiculous that is.

And so what if others have had assault rifles using them on Batman? Who? Someone with Swaggers training? Someone who is as deadly as he is? Someone with his marksmanship skills?

Presidential cars have runflats, you can get up to 500 miles on them even if they've been ruptured. You think Wayne Industries hasn't taken such things into account?

You said;

"I CAN'T be convinced Batman would win.". To me that says; "I can't be convinced Batman would win.". Not "I haven't been, yet.".

So there's no point to the thread, is there? I suggest you start saying what you mean. Not what you...don't mean, or just stop weaselling.

-AC

Well, everyone should be allowed their opinion... however nonsensical it may seem to others.

Indeed, I have mine on this subject, and until I am convinced otherwise, it will remain the same.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indeed, I have mine on this subject, and until I am convinced otherwise, it will remain the same.

Why would anyone try to convince anyone to change it? Do you not know how these Vs. threads work? We're suppose to describe how our victor would win, not convince everyone that one's choice is correct over others.

Although after awhile, it does get monotonous 😛

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You said Bob Lee is just "another sniper" to the Bat.

He might as well be, that's how outclassed he is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I suggested that it is unlikely the Bat would evade his sniper fire, and that, if he were lucky enough to do so, that he would be cut to ribbons by the claymores and Bob Lees G36, not to mention his sidearms. You seem to think the Bat can do it all, when he actually cannot.

He would beat him, we've all given reasons why we believe so. It's not coincidence that you are the only person who seems to think that he could kill Batman, much less do it in one shot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You want it in plain english? To an average sniper, Batman is a difficult, almost impossible shot. To Bob Lee, nailing Batman with a sniper rifle would be far less of a chore. Not a certain thing, but, unless Batman is lucky as hell, Bob Lee should be able to end this with a well placed head shot.

Oh my goodness.

Yes, that's what I've been saying, are you that dense or are you just trying to weasel? I proposed that your argument was that it was an easy shot for Swagger, you replied "Not an easy shot...for a normal man, but for Swagger.", who the hell mentioned a normal man? Why say "I never said it was an easy shot."? You did.

I'll run it by you again:

Me: You're saying it'd be an easy shot for Swagger, therefore a one hit kill.
You: I never said it was an easy shot (Disagreeing with me), for a normal man (Who brought the normal man into it?), but for Swagger isn't normal (So you imply that yes, it would be an easy shot, which was my initial summation of your argument, which you then disagreed and agreed with).

So it's either an easy shot for Swagger or it's not. You've said it is, you've said it isn't. We're not talking about a normal man, would Batman be an easy shot for Swagger or not? Because with that rifle, it'd be a one hit kill, so think about how far you're willing to go.

I don't expect a straight answer for at least a few pages, but it would be nice; easy shot for Swagger or not?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You take what I say too literally, you know damn well thats what I meant, "Trained in the art of Ninja."

It's not MY job to say what you mean. That's your job.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, this is where Bob Lee's sniper training takes over. He places the claymores at strategic locations, knowing Batman will have the technology to avoid them, right? Makes all the sense in the world that he will make Batman take a certain route to get to him, doesn't it?

Not really, the only thing guaranteed about Batman is that he would get around them, or avoid them. There's no set way he would.

You fall into another trap also; you claim Swagger would know everything there is to know about Batman, right? If that's true, he'd not make the amateur mistake of thinking that such simplistic planning could thwart Batman. He hasn't done anything in the movies that suggests he could win this fight.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And so what if others have had assault rifles using them on Batman? Who? Someone with Swaggers training? Someone who is as deadly as he is? Someone with his marksmanship skills?

Marksmanship goes out the window with an assault rifle at close range, you either hit your target or you don't. There's only so good you can be with that kind of weapon.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Funny how they never mention that in the MOVIE.

That wasn't what I asked, was it? You'd certainly avoid Swagger's sniper fire, that's for sure. You could probably dodge rain if your ability to do so in debates manifested itself in real life.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I meant, and you KNOW I meant that I haven't been convinced yet, I already told you this.

You said you can't be convinced, now you're changing your story. Your attitude suggests that there is no way you can be convinced either.

Not that it matters, neither side is factual, but it's not a coincidence that you're on your own here.

-AC