Originally posted by fangirl101
No where does it state or show surfer turning into pure energy. A solid hunk of energy isn't what Photon did. And how do we take things word for it? He's a scientist now?Him turning into a walking bomb can mean many things. Hell, he could charge himself with hydrogen and wait until things blow. The scan is unclear. Not at all anything I consider note worthy of him changing into energy. And if you are saying matter->energy, then hal jordan can alter matter with the best of them. Shaggy man anyone? Hell hal turned himself into light once.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Has anyone else simply copied the energy and manipulated it from the users ring in such a way? And what will does surfer have? He's like an automoton these days. How could he manipulate the energy effectively?
And given Surfer's renowned psychic fortitude and the fact that in his most recent upgrade he was given "the will to do what must be done" I don't think he'd have to much difficulty in the willpower department.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Amazo has 😱 . Yeah I know it's Amazo's thing so don't bother pointing it out. I'm not all that into GL so I don't know much about the things that have proven successful. What I do know though is that the type was replicated and manipulated by a Marvel character who's far inferior to Surfer as far as energy manipulation goes) before and Surfer has manipulated/absorbed similar forms of energy in the past, so unless there's something to suggest that Surfer won't be able to manipulate it there's no real reason to assume he can't. But since Surfer has shown the ability to absorb psychic and spiritual energy directly into himself before, I honestly don't see why he'd have to manipulate the energy any farther than that.And given Surfer's renowned psychic fortitude and the fact that in his most recent upgrade he was given "the will to do what must be done" I don't think he'd have to much difficulty in the willpower department.
I'll answer this tomorrow. I'm going to bed.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Amazo has 😱 . Yeah I know it's Amazo's thing so don't bother pointing it out. I'm not all that into GL so I don't know much about the things that have proven successful. What I do know though is that the type was replicated and manipulated by a Marvel character(who's far inferior to Surfer as far as energy manipulation goes) before and Surfer has manipulated/absorbed similar forms of energy in the past, so unless there's something to suggest that Surfer won't be able to manipulate it there's no real reason to assume he can't. But since Surfer has shown the ability to absorb psychic and spiritual energy directly into himself before, I honestly don't see why he'd have to manipulate the energy any farther than that.And given Surfer's renowned psychic fortitude and the fact that in his most recent upgrade he was given "the will to do what must be done" I don't think he'd have to much difficulty in the willpower department.
so you're saying it would amount to hal's will vs norrin's?
Originally posted by Raoul
so you're saying it would amount to hal's will vs norrin's?
Surfer wins easy, via energy drainage:
http://www.projectfanboy.com/wikifans/images/c/c2/Silversurfer07p47absorbdr2.jpg
if a weaker version of Surfer could drain the powers from an exact equal, a more powerful version should be able to do it too 🙂.
Originally posted by janus77
Surfer wins easy, via energy drainage:
http://www.projectfanboy.com/wikifans/images/c/c2/Silversurfer07p47absorbdr2.jpgif a weaker version of Surfer could drain the powers from an exact equal, a more powerful version should be able to do it too 🙂.
Not while fighting off another attacker he won't.
Besides I think people are forgetting that Surfer's typical combat style against Herald level opponents is pretty much cosmic blasts and physical attacks, bloodlust won't change that.
Originally posted by janus77
Surfer wins easy, via energy drainage:
http://www.projectfanboy.com/wikifans/images/c/c2/Silversurfer07p47absorbdr2.jpgif a weaker version of Surfer could drain the powers from an exact equal, a more powerful version should be able to do it too 🙂.
Hmm...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not while fighting off another attacker he won't.Besides I think people are forgetting that Surfer's typical combat style against Herald level opponents is pretty much cosmic blasts and physical attacks, bloodlust won't change that.
you're seriously overestimating the GL/Sinestro.
Originally posted by janus77
what?
you think he can't just bullrush the pair, grab either one of them (maybe trap the other with his board?) and quick drain him whilst the other guy wrestles with Surfer's board?
That's completely ridiculous. Surfer doesn't even come close to having a speed advantage like that or the capacity to drain the quickly or the mindset to use that sort of tactic.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's completely ridiculous. Surfer doesn't even come close to having a speed advantage like that or the capacity to drain the quickly or the mindset to use that sort of tactic.
he's way beyond guys like Nova and Quasar, in terms of speed and close quarters maneuverability, his reaction times and mental speed (as proven earlier) are far and away better.
your scans proved - on-panel - that the ring is slow and lackadaisical, sometimes having to resort to merely 'counter-acting' the effects of projectiles rather than defending against them.
Surfer's mindset is a function of his previous feats, if he's used the tactic in the past (bullrushing an opponent or absorbing/draining an opponent) then he clearly has the "mindset" for it.
Surfer only needs seconds to drain a herald (the Surfer clone), so he clearly will have both the speed and the time.
the only question is whether or not he'll need to resort to it (I know he won't have to, but it's a simple way to win this battle).
Originally posted by janus77
the speed and the drainage are both firmly within Surfer's proven abilities.he's way beyond guys like Nova and Quasar, in terms of speed and close quarters maneuverability, his reaction times and mental speed (as proven earlier) are far and away better.
your scans proved - on-panel - that the ring is slow and lackadaisical, sometimes having to resort to merely 'counter-acting' the effects of projectiles rather than defending against them.
Surfer's mindset is a function of his previous feats, if he's used the tactic in the past (bullrushing an opponent or absorbing/draining an opponent) then he clearly has the "mindset" for it.
Surfer only needs seconds to drain a herald (the Surfer clone), so he clearly will have both the speed and the time.
the only question is whether or not he'll need to resort to it (I know he won't have to, but it's a simple way to win this battle).
So you're going to completely ignore the way Surfer actually fights based on a handful of examples where he uses his power in a different way? Surfer is not fast enough, GLs are extremely fast and most of the time their shields raise to block effects automatically, they've allowed them to survive attacks from incredibly powerful foes.
You're arguing off high feats which is CBR, not KMC.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If Surfer decided to go that route. I don't really see the tactic working well in this particular fight because Norrin would be wise to soften up Hal with strait up combat before engaging in a mental contest like that. Don't get me wrong, Surfer has some impressive feats of willpower and has shown some unreal stuff that MIGHT be attributed to willpower but without the visual demonstration provided by a GL Ring it's tough to say just how much he's showing for any given thing. That's why I think it'd be a better bet for Norrin to soften him up before trying.
though he would have to do that with sinestro breathing down his neck, someone who's ability with a ring makes hal's look amateurish at times...
Originally posted by janus77
what?
you think he can't just bullrush the pair, grab either one of them (maybe trap the other with his board?) and quick drain him whilst the other guy wrestles with Surfer's board?you're seriously overestimating the GL/Sinestro.
that statement reeks of underrating them... 😬
no, not "high feats", just feats.
it's not a "high feat" for Surfer to absorb another Herald Level character's energies/attacks, he does it all the time.
it's not a "high feat" for Surfer to drain energies, it's pretty much all he does when faced with Hulk.
the reason I put that scan up was to show that he can do it to an energy wielder of his own class too.
Surfer's fought in many different ways, in comics, what we're going by is "blood lusted", like he was with Murrungo - where he was prepared to kill. or Lunatic or UniLord, where he was almost willing to kill. of course, he need not be that determined here, the competition is far slimmer than those occasions.
"extremely fast" is what? the downgrade from your previous hyperbole of "auto shields" protecting from any attack?
...Surfer is just too fast, too strong, too powerful, too versatile, too durable and too damned good ✅
Originally posted by Raoul
though he would have to do that with sinestro breathing down his neck, someone who's ability with a ring makes hal's look amateurish at times...that statement reeks of underrating them... 😬
the only way this becomes a debate is to deny on-panel evidence of what Surfer can do (and often does). to deny how fast he is, to deny the scope and scale of his energy manipulating abilities etc...
as far as I see it, we're not being given reasons why Hal & Sinestro win, it's just scorn and some vague conception of them all being more or less equal (thus numbers win out) ... not an argument, more a plea 😐.
Originally posted by janus77
well, given that over god knows how many pages, I've yet to see an argument for what they can do to counter superior speed, versatility, stamina (a seemingly infinite stream of Power Cosmic for Surfer to avail himself of, compared to the limited store of the rings)...the only way this becomes a debate is to deny on-panel evidence of what Surfer can do (and often does). to deny how fast he is, to deny the scope and scale of his energy manipulating abilities etc...
as far as I see it, we're not being given reasons why Hal & Sinestro win, it's just scorn and some vague conception of them all being more or less equal (thus numbers win out) ... not an argument, more a plea 😐.
wow, you seriously don't get it...
there's been no proof that surfer could drain either ring, and even if he did, thats one, sinestro's ring uses an entirely different form of energy.
ring's can be set to autofire to the point that they can keep up with superman...
autoshields can protect gl's from all but the strongest attacks, hal had been back two minutes before getting smacked full blast by sinestro, only for hal to get back up and actually smirk...
one showing of darts penetrating their shields (and god knows what kind of darts they were to do that) isn't sufficient evidence when weighed up against the large number of impressive auto shield showings...
gl's have plenty of versatility, sinestro being a prime example...
the ring lasts for 24 hours, and has sufficient power to affect the anti-monitor.... and its two rings with a full charge? yeah...
that showing was by way of Symmetric Chaos' attempt at showing how proficient the shields were. there are other feats/fights I've seen where the "auto shield" has proven similarly ... underwhelming.
you're just offering blanket denials... "no he can't energy drain", when there's on-panel evidence and a history of Surfer draining energies from characters across the spectrum upto high herald (and in a couple of cases beyond).
24hrs is how much the ring can power in optimal circumstances, no? if i'm not mistaken, the greater the energy usage, the faster the ring goes down.
Surfer still has superior versatility to them, they rely on a ring and its slower on-board computer, Surfer does things instantaneously via CA/thought. he out races the speed of thought.
Surfer's still significantly more durable, more powerful ...
given his speeds and reactions, 2 rings won't mean twice the power per attack, but more likely just 2 points of attack to avoid - which is perfectly within Surfer's powers.
