Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd appreciate if you not quote Cresock's personal diatribes and thinly veiled flame and bait attempts towards me. Thanks. He relies on other people quoting them so that I see. You can make of that, what you will.
Point taken. Real good arguments by the way. Dont know why people are spamming the thread.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why do you continue positing that JLA/Avengers was canon? Photon drained Kyle's energy completely. You have to take the bad with the good in that non-canon source, you know. I can understand why Surfer proponents would want that considered as evidence, but you don't have anything from current canon continuity of Lanterns dealing with competent energy wielders? Nothing?
JLA Avengers is cannon. have you been reading trinity? Obviously not. Photon turned herself into green energy and then pulled it out of kyles ring. Silver surfer isn't going to do that. he's never shown that ability.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Surfer absorbing a star's energy, which we know he has difficulty doing, is in no way the same as a GL absorbing the power of a cosmic cube. which is a sentient being correct? Kyle's entire being was changed. He was all cosmic cube energy was he not? when he had the power of the green ring, he wasn't green. Just his aura.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait now that I think about it wasn't Batman going to use the cube at the end of that fight? Doesn't that seem to indicate that there was still power in the thing?
It would. How much is up for a guess. I've never seen anyone else do that to a cube. manipulate it to power themselves up by draining it.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Shown what ability?
To turn himself into a completely different form of energy and then wield it. If surfer turned himself into something else, like oan energy, then he wouldn't retain his cosmic energy as his physical make up is what makes him a herald. What ever big g did to him was atomic. He can't replicate what photon did.
Originally posted by fangirl101
It would. How much is up for a guess. I've never seen anyone else do that to a cube. manipulate it to power themselves up by draining it.
Anyway point being, Kyle DIDN'T drain the totality of the cube.
Originally posted by fangirl101Sinestro used Natu's fear of becoming a dictator like him and then like you said, he made a lightning rod construct to weaken her with lightning. I have the issue in front of me and nothing suggests he usurped her GL energy. Either way, what purpose would such a feat serve even if it did exist? Surfer has beaten Firelord with his own energies... that doesn't suggest that he could absorb or usurp a Lantern's energy.
Didnt' sinestro usurb a lanterns energy in Sinestro corps war? And then ***** her by making a lightning rod thingy and shocking her with actual lightning from the sky?
Originally posted by fangirl101I read 'Trinity.' But we don't use crossovers as per the rules. The canonicity of crossovers is too hotly debated. If Busiek's first use of the Cosmic Egg at the end of JLA/Avengers in a subsequent JLA story isn't enough to make this an exception to the rule, why would 'Trinity' change that? Photon is several magnitudes lower than Silver Surfer in terms of energy manipulation. All Photon did was find the frequency of electromagnetism to allow her to steal the energy. Silver Surfer has access over that entire spectrum. Personally, what Photon did was garbage. I've never read a Lantern get so punked before except in pre-Crisis stories.
JLA Avengers is cannon. have you been reading trinity? Obviously not. Photon turned herself into green energy and then pulled it out of kyles ring. Silver surfer isn't going to do that. he's never shown that ability.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Reported. For trolling this time. 🙂
I'd appreciate if you not quote Cresock's personal diatribes and thinly veiled flame and bait attempts towards me. Thanks. He relies on other people quoting them so that I see. You can make of that, what you will.
I've found this usually occurs when people wish to derail a thread or interrupt the flow of a debate that turns against their favor because they are fans or proponents of the losing side and want to conceal or contain the influence it may have on the forums.Or it could be a secret mating ritual... dur
Meh. Fangirl101 is still debating. And I'm sure we can count on Avlon to come back eventually. Personally, I've discovered that it's quite gratifying to continually point out that my questions have not been answered. Well, I disagreed that Symmetric Chaos' answers were satisfactory anyway. But that's mainly because I know they have no evidence and as such can't say anything other than "I concede." Silence speaks volumes. Of course, I'm always up for being surprised. So I'll ask them again:
1. "Show me a scan where a current Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
2. "Show me scans where a current Lantern usurped or at least absorbed a competent energy wielder's energies."
3. "Show me scans where a current Lantern either beat or overloaded a competent energy wielder's efforts or technology."
Originally posted by darthgoober
I've never seen anyone contain a cosmic cube the way Sentry did either, does that mean that he's automatically on par with Surfer and Kyle?Anyway point being, Kyle DIDN'T drain the totality of the cube.
He did use it to give himself some form of cube powers. a feat that no one else but a GL can claim. And he did it by only reciting the gl's oath. something they all can do.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sinestro used Natu's fear of becoming a dictator like him and then like you said, he made a lightning rod construct to weaken her with lightning. I have the issue in front of me and nothing suggests he usurped her GL energy. Either way, what purpose would such a feat serve even if it did exist? Surfer has beaten Firelord with his own energies... that doesn't suggest that he could absorb or usurp a Lantern's energy.
I read 'Trinity.' But we don't use crossovers as per the rules. The canonicity of crossovers is too hotly debated. If Busiek's first use of the Cosmic Egg at the end of JLA/Avengers in a subsequent JLA story isn't enough to make this an exception to the rule, why would 'Trinity' change that? Photon is several magnitudes lower than Silver Surfer in terms of energy manipulation. All Photon did was find the frequency of electromagnetism to allow her to steal the energy. Silver Surfer has access over that entire spectrum. Personally, what Photon did was garbage. I've never read a Lantern get so punked before except in pre-Crisis stories.
What Photon Did was turn herself into his energy and mingle with it, and then pulled it out. Surfer isn't doing that. Even if he could, it would take time, as it does her, and that he doesn't have fighting two lanterns. And the cross over is canon. It's the only one of it's kind.
Originally posted by fangirl101
To turn himself into a completely different form of energy and then wield it. If surfer turned himself into something else, like oan energy, then he wouldn't retain his cosmic energy as his physical make up is what makes him a herald . What ever big g did to him was atomic. He can't replicate what photon did.
Originally posted by fangirl101
He did use it to give himself some form of cube powers. a feat that no one else but a GL can claim. And he did it by only reciting the gl's oath. something they all can do.
Originally posted by fangirl101Man. You type posts fast. 😂 I totally missed this one. My point is, some have argued that constructing a Power Cosmic Siphon Harness or Sonic Shark missile or Iron Man energy panels would not be beyond a Lantern's ability to create. And I would agree with this IF they had a chance to analyze such technology. But they don't. Per forum rules they only get common knowledge. This scan demonstrates that Stewart needed to analyze this technology to construct a new one:
The without guidance thing is kinda misgiving. The rings themselves are guides. Are you saying create something with the ring telling them how to do it? Sinestro put back together a plain on the fly with no visable guidance. I've also seen john stewart make a working fire estinguisher out of plasma. I've seen kyle make a working train on tracks.
And nobody's shown a single scan of a Lantern making a machine out of nothing that they haven't used or had experience with before. I can remember current Hal creating a jet turbine to blast a Manhunter, but since he's a jet pilot and worked for years as a mechanic at the airbase, of course he would know how to put one together. I can't remember what you're referencing, but Sinestro putting a plane back together again is very different from making a completely new machine that they've never had access to. In the same way, I never suggested that Silver Surfer could create Manhunter technology or Black Hand's little power rod device. How would he know how to build one in the first place? Maybe given sufficient time to study and experiment he could, but he doesn't have that here in this fight. And neither do the Lanterns.
Again, until someone shows proof to answer these questions, this whole energy absorption issue is moot and reflects very poorly on the Lanterns:
1. "Show me a scan where a current Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
2. "Show me scans where a current Lantern usurped or at least absorbed a competent energy wielder's energies."
3. "Show me scans where a current Lantern either beat or overloaded a competent energy wielder's efforts or technology."
Originally posted by darthgoober
What are you basing this on? Any why would he have to use his standard energy type rather than the type he becomes anyway?
I'm confused at the question. I'm basing surfer not being able to alter his physiology on the fact that it was galactus that altered him in the first place to have the power cosmic. The only other times we see surfer altered is when someone of greater power than himself does it. If surfer could alter himself, he would no longer be the same guy that galactus made. Turning himself into one pure form of energy would be outside of his abilities anyway. So he cannot replicate the feat that photon did. She's pretty unique in comics. not many beings can do what she does. And if he becomes will power energy, then he certainly would be there to be absorbed by sinestro's ring' or hal's ring, or thier batteries. we know the batteries can cross absorb.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Man. You type posts fast. 😂 I totally missed this one. My point is, some have argued that constructing a Power Cosmic Siphon Harness or Sonic Shark missile or Iron Man energy panels would not be beyond a Lantern's ability to create. And I would agree with this IF they had a chance to analyze such technology. But they don't. Per forum rules they only get common knowledge. This scan demonstrates that Stewart needed to analyze this technology to construct a new one:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_076.jpgAnd nobody's shown a single scan of a Lantern making a machine out of nothing that they haven't used or had experience with before. I can remember current Hal creating a jet turbine to blast a Manhunter, but since he's a jet pilot and worked for years as a mechanic at the airbase, of course he would know how to put one together. I can't remember what you're referencing, but Sinestro putting a plane back together again is very different from making a completely new machine that they've never had access to. In the same way, I never suggested that Silver Surfer could create Manhunter technology or Black Hand's little power rod device. How would he know how to build one in the first place? Maybe given sufficient time to study and experiment he could, but he doesn't have that here in this fight. And neither do the Lanterns.
Again, until someone shows proof to answer these questions, this whole energy absorption issue is moot and reflects very poorly on the Lanterns:
1. "Show me a scan where a current Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
2. "Show me scans where a current Lantern usurped or at least absorbed a competent energy wielder's energies."
3. "Show me scans where a current Lantern either beat or overloaded a competent energy wielder's efforts or technology."
Lanterns have absobred entire beings into thier rings right? That would suggest a high level of matter/energy manipulation and conversion. I think that would cover question number 2.
As for lanters creating tech of thin air, I dont' think that would happen to the specifics that others have stated. But Sinestro did show that he didn't have to know a thing about that plane to put it back together. Plus dont' all the rings share a common link to oa? That would mean all of the history of the rings and everything they have studied would be up for grabs correct? I'd say the rings can conjure up something to effectively trap the surfer. Or Drain him.
I have to try and find some old scans to see about a lantern beating an energy wielder. i'm sure firestorm, and captain atom have ran across a lantern in a fight.
Originally posted by fangirl101Just because Photon has to change herself to absorb a certain frequency of energy doesn't necessarily mean that's the only way Surfer could drain a Lantern. Either way, why am I arguing this? You may consider the crossover canon. And there are people who agree that JLA/Avengers is canon. But I do not. And there are just as many people who agree that it is not canon. We don't use it in vs. threads. But hey, I just asked the question. If you want to debate it with Darthgoober, whatever. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm with the majority of folks who don't consider crossovers canon material.
What Photon Did was turn herself into his energy and mingle with it, and then pulled it out. Surfer isn't doing that. Even if he could, it would take time, as it does her, and that he doesn't have fighting two lanterns. And the cross over is canon. It's the only one of it's kind.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just because Photon has to change herself to absorb a certain frequency of energy doesn't necessarily mean that's the only way Surfer could drain a Lantern. Either way, why am I arguing this? You may consider the crossover canon. And there are people who agree that JLA/Avengers is canon. But I do not. And there are just as many people who agree that it is not canon. We don't use it in vs. threads. But hey, I just asked the question. If you want to debate it with Darthgoober, whatever. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm with the majority of folks who don't consider crossovers canon material.
Well that would mean one would have to discount a healthy majority of the story of trinity, since it's based upon a "non-canon" source book. And She didn't just absorb, she became his weapon, in order to drain it.
