Hal Jordan and Sinestro vs Silver Surfer

Started by TricksterPriest16 pages

🤨 Sinestro was the ace of the Corp and considered the best ever before Hal Jordan joined. And Hal (aside from the Parallax incident) is considered the pinnacle of the current corp.

How in gods name can Surfer beat two of the best GLs of all time? And that's not even factoring whether he can fight the Sin corp rings.

"also, in one of the cross-overs, Surfer has shown the ability to contain all the Oan energies in the central battery..."

Cross-over. EPIC FAIL. You think Surfer is a being on par with Classic Ion or Classic Parallax? stfugtfo

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.
The incredulity expressed by veterans of this board is amusing. And would someone friggin answer my question: "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?"

Manhunters are a bad example. CONSIDERING THAT THEY WERE MADE BY THE GUARDIANS, WHO MADE THE RINGS.

People have tried, it's just very hard and made harder by the willpower of the GL.

Last two I can think of who shut down the rings, were Tangent SuperMAN, and Takion, both of whom are way above Surfer.

^ Yes. I know Manhunters are a poor example. I explained that myself several posts ago:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hulk cannot manipulate his gamma energies. He can only draw more gamma radiation into his body. Hulk has no way of fighting off Surfer's draining of it. Hal and Sinestro both are experienced manipulators of their respective energies. They can fight against someone trying to drain them... I think. Although, have they fought any opponent that has tried to drain their energies? Because I can only recall Manhunters draining them and they can't resist that. Either way, Manhunters possess enhanced technology specifically targeted towards those energies. Unless you have scans where a competent energy wielder has drained Green or Yellow Lanterns of their powers, it's pure speculation that Silver Surfer could replicate such effects.
And thanks for the editorial comments about how Tangent Superman and Takion are "way above" Silver Surfer. Something tells me that despite my honest inquiry, only well-read GL fans will have the capacity to answer, but will be recalcitrant to reveal such information unless it serves their own purposes. Maybe I should rephrase my question, "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?"

🐰

I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.

thats just it they r not on his level...maybe classic but not current surfer

Silver Surfer would beat Sinestro for a majority.
Silver Surfer would beat Hal Jordan for a majority.
Silver Surfer wouldn't beat Sinestro and Hal Jordan for a majority.

....................🤨 What has Surfer done that puts him over the top GLs? No, scratch that. What has he done that everyone seems to be wanting to bump him to trans?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.

Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.
Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm not saying Surfer can't drain him. I'm wondering why you think it's going to work as a strat. What's stopping Hal from doing the same thing? He's not going to just lie there and let Surfer drain him.

Hal can match Surfer on pretty much any power he has, and even a few Surfer doesn't. Sinestro is just as good as Hal. How can Surfer beat two guys on his level who have no exploits? Because if he tries to drain one, he'll leave himself open to a pincer attack.


I think his point is that if there's virtually no evidence of Hal overcoming energy absorption then it's far more likely the tactic will be successful for Surfer because Surfer DOES have instances of overcoming energy absorption to his credit.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

👆

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so we're clear... I don't consider the hypothesis of Surfer draining Hal or Sinestro to be a factor in my opinion at all. Indeed, I'm scrutinizing anyone's logic that suggests he could do so. Got it? Good. On that note, show me where Hal or Sinestro has drained a competent energy wielder of their power. Because I think it's absolutely absurd to believe that either Hal or Sinestro could drain Surfer of the Power Cosmic.Furthermore, I have not seen Hal nor Sinestro accomplish a feat that Surfer cannot. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Unfortunately, all I've been presented with are overblown feats and miscontrued myths that I've had to bust for months now. Feel free to be the first to change that unfortunate trend and actually give me something I can work with.

Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.

Good post. The Gls while in general can be classified as energy manipulators just like surfer, are fundamentally different and have weakenesses that SS does not.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
....................🤨 What has Surfer done that puts him over the top GLs? No, scratch that. What has he done that everyone seems to be wanting to bump him to trans?
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Prior to OneDumb's posts I like many others considered high end GLs to be Surfer's equivalent. No more.

Very nice post.

Well classic surfer and high end gls are still piers IMO with a nod to ss but current surfer is quite a bit above them IMO

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

Lanterns don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Lanterns don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Lanterns don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

Lanterns don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

Lanterns don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Lanterns don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Lanterns can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

Want to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Very little of that is consistent with the way Surfer usually acts or fights. Individually GLs are probably a little bit below Surfer, I'll give you that, but the numbers game plays hugely to their favor. Bloodlust means Surfer is trying to kill them not that he'll remember to use all his myriad powers. To be fair the GLs aren't going to do that either but because they out number Surfer and because they really are quite powerful means they can without too much difficulty.

Sinestro is generally "bloodlusted" isn't he?

People shouldn't forget that even though the Surfer is applying lethal force, Sinestro always does.

Originally posted by llagrok
Sinestro is generally "bloodlusted" isn't he?

People shouldn't forget that even though the Surfer is applying lethal force, Sinestro always does.


Hal Jordan also has lethal force authorized for this fight

Originally posted by jalek moye
Hal Jordan also has lethal force authorized for this fight

Is he merely 'allowed' to use lethal force, or is he also out for the kill?

he'll use it if he deems it nessacary to take surfer down