Originally posted by DigiMark007
Smurph, you've known about the ruling since it was made over a month ago in my match with Scoob and leo. Souls were approved as part of information retention. And though it's not entirely clear in the rules, that was why I asked delph. I said, "Hey, would souls fall under the info retention rule?" and his reply was "Yes." I then posted that ruling more times than I care to remember so that everyone would know. I can't affect the rulings he makes, nor did I try to affect it with any sort of bias claims.So for you to bring this up now, instead of when it should have been dealt with (back when I originally dealt with it, in a timely manner) is just an attempt to get the rules changed to cripple me for the playoffs.
Also saying you didn't have access to the same benefits is crap. You've had over a month with this ruling in place. You've had every opportunity that everyone else has had. If you didn't adjust accordingly, it's your own fault.
At this point, it remains legal and no change has been made. Delph's fully aware of the situation. For it to change now would just be him changing his mind because you don't like it.
Let me tell you exactly what the situation is before you lecture me on it.
I expected this attack to be outlawed before it got to me, and I didn't want to enter this debate before it got to my match because it's what you base your entire match off of, and I didn't want to do the majority of debating for a match that wasn't my own, especially considering I'm extremely busy at the moment.
As for where we are with the rulings right now, if it wasn't for Delph's dad's accident today (Best wishes, man), then he would have told you himself that neither ruling that he's going to make (as there's two possibilities) are in your favor. Neither are going to allow more than memories and experience to be brought from match to match, which is exactly what you've admitted you need.
Don't further go on to lecture me on what is or isn't my fault, as I'm proven to be right that your tactic is in fact illegal (bringing more than memories and experience, that is), and therefore was right in not adapting my attack, which you've claimed I have no excuse to not have done. It is in fact your fault that your attack is screwed right now, as you've shot yourself in the foot (you'll see why later, if it needs to be highlighted). Can you say irony?
So at this point, the only thing delaying the judge votes being posted and you receiving a ruling you won't like is Delph's father's tragic incident.
All that you're doing throughout this post is laying down a poor, overreactive defense because you know you're wrong, and are choosing to attack me as the best defensive option. Sod off.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Oh, FFS Digi. Get a grip. I'm tired of the baseless accusations that you've made even prior to our actual match. At this point you're just making personal attacks because your instant response to thinking you might be wrong is to become immediately defensive, to the point where you're willing to go off on childish rants as you did for this entire post. I'm getting sick and tired of you resorting to personally attacking me each time you **** up, as you did both with your Minion Prime strategy and with the deadline of the match.
And I love that we've instituted the flexible ending deadline for the playoffs, so last-minute post-blitzes like our match will no longer happen and we'll all have time for our posts...because matches should be won on the strength of the debating, not who gets the last word in a massive post-blitz. So congrats on the top seed, though we really didn't need the "headache" excuse for denying an extension. If you didn't want to debate more, just say so.
I talked to other judges who were of the same opinion that I shouldn't extend the match, 2 judge votes were already in, and I really do have a busy week. Had I agreed to extend it, I likely couldn't get anything more than copying and pasting a scans-only-post into my match.
So, **** you, **** your constant whining, **** your personal attacks because you can't handle your own shortcomings.
Originally posted by Starscream M
by that definition, the Crown doesn't seem like it would be standard equipment imo.
then look at it from a different angle--non-standard equipment is available to EVERYONE. any characterwith access to the base or location would be able to make use of it.
the crown is only at the base because cog locked it there. he could have put it anywhere. the crown is also utterly INACCESSIBLE to ANYONE other than king cog. the crown became his standard equipment the moment . . .
HE USURPED THE THRONE AND CROWN. he's the ONLY one who can access it. or do you (not just you m, but the generic 'you'😉 think that any old demon could just walk into the chamber and grab it and proclaim themselves king?
again, there are things that do NOT require on-panel proof to be accepted. a powerless guy gains a god's power, only to remove the artifact that grants him that power and yet he still retains rulership of the most terrible place imagineable. and a king does not ALWAYS wear a crown. how do you determine fairly that it is NOT standard when he's made 2 extremely brief cameo appearances since he became king? what king does NOT possess a crown?? i've NEVER seen him sit in the throne, but the throne sure as hell would be standard equipment too. comes as part of the package.
i don't know how this can be anymore clear, seriously: he's taken possession of CROWN AND THRONE--literally CLAIMED THEM AS HIS OWN. that's what he did when he became king.
he's displayed clear inferential power and common sense would dictate that yes, he IS powerful (which will no doubt be borne out when he invades HEAVEN . . .) and commons sense would dictate that anyone who USURPS THE CROWN AND THRONE becomes OWNER of those things. if he owns them, they are standard equipment.
any ruling that goes against those points defies logic and common sense.
(not meant to sound antagonistic, m. exasperated maybe, (i really cannot for the life of me understand why this is not crystal clear) but not antagonistic. 🙂 )
Originally posted by leonidasleo, don't worry...you didn't come across at all antagonistic. And I understand your exasperation...I also understand your point that logic would seem to dictate the conclusion you arrived at. But I think that is up to the judges then to decide to accept your logic or Id's and this issue needs no ruling from Delph nor could Delph rule with so little facts on either side.(not meant to sound antagonistic, m. exasperated maybe, (i really cannot for the life of me understand why this is not crystal clear) but not antagonistic. 🙂 )
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as for standard equipment, let me ask you this. Wonder Woman's sword: only she has access to it, but she rarely uses it. I personally wouldn't consider it standard equipment. Do you?
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBelAccording to Delph, our match technically started on Weds, but I only offered a reply on Friday (hence my almost-forfeit).
The match was marked as Wednesday till Sunday, but in reality started on Friday, so it should be Friday till Tuesday to have standart length, yes?
Originally posted by Starscream M
as for standard equipment, let me ask you this. Wonder Woman's sword: only she has access to it, but she rarely uses it. I personally wouldn't consider it standard equipment. Do you?
tbh, i don't know enough about the sword. if she has ready access to it at any time, then yes, i'd say it would stand as standard. to say it in a different way--if she doesn't carry it around all the time for plot device reasons than yes, it should be considered standard. if there are special conditions that allow her to carry it, or if she only has some form of limited access, or requires permission or such, then no.
imo.
as for the crown--there is no reason whatsoever that cog couldn't fetch the crown at any point and wear it whenever he chose to do so.
Originally posted by leonidasI think your definition of standard equipment is different then Delph's.
tbh, i don't know enough about the sword. if she has ready access to it at any time, then yes, i'd say it would stand as standard. to say it in a different way--if she doesn't carry it around all the time for plot device reasons than yes, it should be considered standard. if there are special conditions that allow her to carry it, or if she only has some form of limited access, or requires permission or such, then no.imo.
From Delph, on the previous page of this thread:
"For an example, if in a particular story Hawkeye was depicted as acquiring and using a special anti-Hulk gamma arrow, but he was not depicted as using that item in any other story before or since, it wouldn't be considered "standard equipment", though he was depicted as having access to it"
Delph seems to say that simply having access to it doesn't make it standard. Rather it is usage, not access, that determines whether something is standard.
Originally posted by illadelph12
In my opinion, there is no rule violation on Digi's part.
That was from earlier today. Not sure what else I can say Smurph. You've been claiming that it's illegal for a while now, but the only actual evidence has been on my end. Inferring a ruling from a vague MSN convo doesn't really count as evidence either. Charlotte challenged it, Scoob/leo challenged it, I checked everything before I ever did it at all, and delph has weighed in today as well. I count 4 separate rulings in my favor.
As for your last post, it's probably pointless to go through each line and counter-post. I understand you have real life stuff going on. I don't like that your only posts were hours before the deadline, but that will be rectified in the playoffs. You can veto the extension, as you did. Just say "I have sh*t going on" instead of pretending that debating this issue has you too drained to debate. Because, for example, you really are probably going to win the match. And it is really is probably because you got the last 4 posts in. That's not an attack on you. You debated, you'll probably win. Kudos (really). But that's saying that I dislike the way that can happen, and is pisses me off, and I'm happy that it won't be an issue in the playoffs. But being pissed off and being pissed off at you for it are separate matters. You did nothing illegal, and got your sh*t in eventually even with real life stuff going on. I don't like how it went down, but I don't want to take it out on you personally.
Otherwise, you attacked my plan and I had to defend it. 9/10 of my post that you quoted up there was just that: defense of my strategy against specific objections you had raised at one point or another. If you want to think that it's attacking you, instead of the points you made, go right ahead. I won't lose sleep over it, because all I'm doing is defending my tourney strategy...I didn't want it to become personal. Disagreeing with you isn't bashing you. The fact that I strongly disagreed with you doesn't change that. You need to be able to make the distinction better, so that we can avoid profanity-laced posts like your above post.
And I hope I'm interpreting parts of the post wrong, and my apologies if I am, but it seems like you're trying to invoke delph's dad's unfortunate situation to make me seem like the bad guy. I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to reply to that stuff, except to tell delph not to worry about the tourney or any of us, just like I did when I first heard.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think your definition of standard equipment is different then Delph's.From Delph, on the previous page of this thread:
"For an example, if in a particular story Hawkeye was depicted as acquiring and using a special anti-Hulk gamma arrow, but he was not depicted as using that item in any other story before or since, it wouldn't be considered "standard equipment", though he was depicted as having access to it"
Delph seems to say that simply having access to it doesn't make it standard. Rather it is usage, not access, that determines whether something is standard.
i'd agree completely that the arrow was non-standard--it was a one time plot device item. the sword has been used numerous times and if it is NOT used strictly for plot reasons, but she can get it anytime she wants and only she can access it, then yeah, i'd say it was standard (though it would be illegal in this event . . .)
i agree though--judges need to rwach a decision. this seems like it won't or can't be cleared up without someone (a judge) just stepping out on a limb and giving their best shot at sorting out the mess.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Delph said that souls can carry over, BUT he defined souls very narrowly as merely memories and experiences. That is a critical difference from how you're using souls. Even you'd prob admit that if a soul was merely memories and experiences, then you couldn't attain Marvel's powers. For Marvel's powers to attach, a soul has to be more than mere memories and experiences, it must be something akin to a life force.
That was from earlier today. Not sure what else I can say Smurph. You've been claiming that it's illegal for a while now, but the only actual evidence has been on my end. Inferring a ruling from a vague MSN convo doesn't really count as evidence either.
Originally posted by Starscream M
Delph said that souls can carry over, BUT he defined souls very narrowly as merely memories and experiences. That is a critical difference from how you're using souls. Even you'd prob admit that if a soul was merely memories and experiences, then you couldn't attain Marvel's powers. For Marvel's powers to attach, a soul has to be more than mere memories and experiences, it must be something akin to a life force.
Yes, but I made the distinction very clear in my messages to him, so he's aware of it, and approved it either way. He views a soul simply as memories and such. That's fine. He's saying that's his personal take on souls, which doesn't necessarily need to be shared by others. But souls as information retention, regardless of what we interpret to be a soul, are legal as info retention.
It's (hopefully) beyond clear. He's ruled on it no less than 4 times. And "no rule violation on Digi's part" leaves nothing to speculation...especially since it has come after all of the recent discussion.
On the arrow: It's a one-time item that he didn't use before that appearance, nor did he use it afterwards, however, he does have access to it. It is not standard equipment.
Let's change ONE word of that statement:
On the crown: It's a one-time item that he didn't use before that appearance, nor did he use it afterwards, however, he does have access to it. It is not standard equipment.
Given how the situation is exactly the same in both of those statements, i would have to say it's the same: The crown is base equip, not standard.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, but I made the distinction very clear in my messages to him, so he's aware of it, and approved it either way. He views a soul simply as memories and such. That's fine. He's saying that's his personal take on souls, which doesn't necessarily need to be shared by others. But souls as information retention, regardless of what we interpret to be a soul, are legal as info retention.
Delph's view is not simply personal...as it stands, his personal view is creating the ruling here. Thus, his personal view becomes the accepted view of souls for the tourney.
Delph is accepting carryingover of souls ONLY because to him, a soul is nothing more than memories and experiences.
Therefore, you can't then say "well Delph allowed for soul transfer because his personal view of souls is memories and experiences. BUT in my usuage of souls, I'm going to treat souls as more than memories and experiences." Because if you use souls as more than mere memories and experiences, then Delph would've never allowed such carryover in the first place.
It boils down to this: Delph only okayed transfer of souls because he thinks its only memories and experiences. Therefore, you're limited to only usage of the memories and experiences.