Delph's League of Champions Season One Discussion Thread

I had private talk with Delph during my match with Digi as well, to ask whether Digi's actions qualify as "external posession" which is banned from the tourney.

However, he did say Minion's was special case and added that should I've beaten Digi in the match, then absorbtion of exorcised souls into Soulsword would have been valid for me and I could have saved those for playoffs and use as I please.

So it's not like Digi's the only one to possibly benefit from souls gathering, it's just I (for example) abandoned that route due to getting one character I've needed for general scheme of things only in playoffs.

And I never made that debacle public (maybe it's just me, small fish over here and not one of the main social threads attractions- had half-drunk SNK\alterntate sex love\Ash Crimson sucking ass conversation there out of boredom recently, though). In fact, the worst way to gain himself an "invincible debator\duelist" role in tourneys\turn based forum RPG is by badgering judges\mods asking for ruling into your favour.

Originally posted by id369
Isn’t comments such as “there is nothing left to discuss” a bit vague and discouraging? Maybe not something he wishes to discuss with you (or vice versa), but under his own weight he might shed a different reasoning to validate turn of rule for Delph.

He's welcome to try. Or rather, he already has. Delph's been in contact with us both about the matter. Unless anything changes with the ruling, there really is nothing more to discuss. I'm not telling Smurph to not bring it up, I'm saying that he's issued his complaints and nothing further can be done unless a ruling is changed based on those issues.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I had private talk with Delph during my match with Digi as well, to ask whether Digi's actions qualify as "external posession" which is banned from the tourney.

However, he did say Minion's was special case and added that should I've beaten Digi in the match, then absorbtion of exorcised souls into Soulsword would have been valid for me and I could have saved those for playoffs and use as I please.

So it's not like Digi's the only one to possibly benefit from souls gathering, it's just I (for example) abandoned that route due to getting one character I've needed for general scheme of things only in playoffs.

Exactly my point. Others tried the same thing. This isn't a new complaint.

And Charlotte could have utilized soul absorption as well. So like I said, it's been available to everyone for over a month.

Well its not the use of a soul to be used as retaining memories. I don’t think that is the problem, but the fact that the soul is being used to empower his character. So something that is used as means to memories, can be used as means to empower ones character? It seems a bit odd, and out of place. Or at least that was my comments, I placed in my match.

Originally posted by id369
Well its not the use of a soul to be used as retaining memories. I don’t think that is the problem, but the fact that the soul is being used to empower his character. So something that is used as means to memories, can be used as means to empower ones character? It seems a bit odd, and out of place. Or at least that was my comments, I placed in my match.

For example, I'm fine with experience copying since under special curcumstances it brings very good benefints when used correctly (and judges approved the "Astrid Bloom thingy" in regards to both KOed current Cable and Jean Grey (non-Phoenix)=lost of psionic skillsets).

Souls\soul energy can possibly be used to empower one, just like your Hellspawn transformation. In plan I've planned to use though it was a very complex thing requiring 2 characters and specific prep area.

Originally posted by id369
Well its not the use of a soul to be used as retaining memories. I don’t think that is the problem, but the fact that the soul is being used to empower his character. So something that is used as means to memories, can be used as means to empower ones character? It seems a bit odd, and out of place. Or at least that was my comments, I placed in my match.

Except, again for probably the 12th time, the original rulings that I posted made it clear to delph that I would be empowering my character using the Marvels. I told him that exactly, and asked if it was ok. The reply was yes. It has since been questioned and upheld.

This is going to be my response for most of your objections, because the answer stays the same. I told him exactly what I was doing, hid nothing, made no bias claims, and no new information has been presented. It was, and is, approved.

I'm sorry you guys don't like it, but it doesn't change the facts of the matter. If it had been vetoed originally, I would've happily accepted it and moved on. As it is, it was approved, so I'm not going to sit here and not defend what was a fully informed decision by delph.

It also wouldn’t be the last time, Delph has ruled out something previously approved upon.

You see the moment, the souls where used for anything beyond the use of memories it becomes subjective, in regards to the soul being treated as a tangible object or not.

In fact, sometimes information retention is useful even when not being as exotic as souls.

For example, it was made clear by Delph, that while mystical powerups etc doesn't transfer from battle to battle, learned mystical techniques do.
For example, via hiveminds\amalgams Oracle now has skillset of Magik II and Zachary Zatara stored in her photographic memory.

She can't use their powers, since Barbara herself isn't mage... However, if amalgamated with mage who is able\was shown on panel to use those tricks or ones of pretty much similiar magic type (while Zachary's magic is pretty specific and he uses it in your typical homo magi way via backwards trigger, Magik II's skillset is learned and has more to do with training than biology- after all, she offered tutoring to Pixie in her magic ways), it can expand said mage's trick arsenal.

Just one example of how just information collection can be useful.

Or look at what Smurph tries to do with Nimrod.

Originally posted by id369
It also wouldn’t be the last time, Delph has ruled out something previously approved upon.

You see the moment, the souls where used for anything beyond the use of memories it becomes subjective, in regards to the soul being treated as a tangible object or not.

Every time he's switched a ruling it has been because he didn't fully comprehend the situation when he first ruled. No new information has been presented in this case. I presented everything to him at the onset, and didn't try to sway his opinion with an false information or persuasion.

He also knew that I would be using them to empower my character, and approved it. Then did so again when it was questioned, both by Scoob/leo and Charlotte, and now Smurph. He has had to switch rulings, yes. But never when he's already heard the same complaints and approved it multiple times.

But hell, my last post says the same thing. You're not bringing anything new, so I'm answering the same way because it's still valid.

Let's stop with that now, people. We all know we won't be receiving any sorts of rulings from Delph now due to his family problems (hope his dad will be OK) and that's pointless "hitting of thin air" happening there.

Agreed, Charlotte. I have to defend myself when accusations are made, but it's clear that this is getting nowhere. And crap like this is always what drains tourneys of their fun for all involved. It's one thing when there's a clear direction to the discussion, but when it's just people beating dead arguments further into the ground and me responding the same way, it's waste of all of our time.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Every time he's switched a ruling it has been because he didn't fully comprehend the situation when he first ruled. No new information has been presented in this case. I presented everything to him at the onset, and didn't try to sway his opinion with an false information or persuasion.

He also knew that I would be using them to empower my character, and approved it. Then did so again when it was questioned, both by Scoob/leo and Charlotte, and now Smurph. He has had to switch rulings, yes. But never when he's already heard the same complaints and approved it multiple times.

But hell, my last post says the same thing. You're not bringing anything new, so I'm answering the same way because it's still valid.

Now now, don’t take the comments personal.

I expressed my opinion, as to why members are not comfortable with the soul/memory/empowering. Its not like they don’t have a valid reason to call it out. I could, go into more details as to why it should be ruled invalid. But that’s not the purpose of my post.

I've taken nothing personal. I'm not sure what in my words suggests that I did. I just have to defend myself when attacked. That's all. Delph made a fully informed ruling with all information available to him, and has reiterated that ruling multiple times now through various complaints. There's nothing else I can say.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I've taken nothing personal. I'm not sure what in my words suggests that I did. I just have to defend myself when attacked. That's all. Delph made a fully informed ruling with all information available to him, and has reiterated that ruling multiple times now through various complaints. There's nothing else I can say.

People, really, stop with that. That's getting nowhere.

And that's NOT the first tourney everyone uses data retention to empower themselves from match to match. I remember our "Adaptoids bracket" in the last mid herald tourney...now THAT was everything there, including resurresting dead characters from Astral Plane by Nate Grey in prep time and copying their skill\powersets.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
People, really, stop with that. That's getting nowhere.

[scott voice]EMMA!!![/scott voice]

😛

but yeah, guys, wait to see what ill says, otherwise, drop it, please...

Again, I agree Charlotte. But as long as there are challenges to the ruling, I will defend it, because it's completely legit. With the personal stake I have in it, I can't be the first to drop it and allow others to share their opinion without counter-points to them.

Oh, another hot topic- but more suitable for transactions thread (probably).

B-Dub\Smurph drafted Warlock for 25 points under premise of him being "poor man's Plastic Man".
However, some stuff the guy did warrants higher placement for him.

Here, he shapeshifts into Spiderwoman and Cannonball respectively, while duplicating their powers, not merely physical appearance:
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutantsannual330mp5.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutantsannual335nz5.jpg
So, do you think that warrants him 25 points cost or should he be treated as 30 pointer at least.

The cost of several characters was debated in the tourney, and sometimes altered when there were found feats to support higher cost.

Though to be fair said stuff happened in New Mutants Annual #3 which was largely a joke issue with ton of contradictory crap being tossed for humour's sake (Impossible Man morphing into Thanos and displaying all the Thanos' powers, yet being unable to change colours, for example), but it's still in canon for Warlock.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Every time he's switched a ruling it has been because he didn't fully comprehend the situation when he first ruled. No new information has been presented in this case. I presented everything to him at the onset, and didn't try to sway his opinion with an false information or persuasion.

again, how is this different from Id's situation?

What exactly was the new info in Id's situation that in your mind makes it ok for Delph to change a ruling but not so in your situation?

(btw, i know its hard to convey tone in text, so understand Im asking these questions without an accusatory tone (as it may come across) but rather of a questioning one)

Originally posted by Raoul
[scott voice]EMMA!!![/scott voice]

😛

but yeah, guys, wait to see what ill says, otherwise, drop it, please...

@Digi: Oh I see, well I agree with what Smurph last post over clause 8 of tournament rules. And with the recent light shed, of ruling out the internalizing power of the Crown voided out. Under the clause of it being one of the same, as brining the Crown to the battlefield. How is this any different with Marvel power up? You are not brining the characters into the field, you cant retain the powers from the characters previously fused. Yet you can empower yourself, based on the fact that souls are treated as memory retention and a tangible item?

Originally posted by Starscream M
again, how is this different from Id's situation?

What exactly was the new info in Id's situation that in your mind makes it ok for Delph to change a ruling but not so in your situation?

(btw, i know its hard to convey tone in text, so understand Im asking these questions without an accusatory tone (as it may come across) but rather of a questioning one)

Leo would be better equipped to answer this. But to my understanding, delph was under the impression that Cog didn't have his King powers at all but still was King, giving him access to the tower (with the crown) as a base of operations. This turned out to be false. I forget exactly why, but I believe it was because he retained his King powers throughout, so that drafting any version of King Cog with access to the tower was drafting a character far >>> 15 points.

But again, that wasn't my ruling, and I wasn't as involved with it as leo/id were.

In any case, it's clear delph wasn't aware of everything from teh start. He was in my case.

Originally posted by id369
@Digi: Oh I see, well I agree with what Smurph last post over clause 8 of tournament rules. And with the recent light shed, of ruling out the internalizing power of the Crown voided out. Under the clause of it being one of the same, as brining the Crown to the battlefield. How is this any different with Marvel power up? You are not brining the characters into the field, you cant retain the powers from the characters previously fused. Yet you can empower yourself, based on the fact that souls are treated as memory retention and a tangible item?

I've read rule 8 too. Which is why I asked delph if souls were a valid part of information retention, and would they be covered under that rule, because I wasn't sure either. He said yes, also knowing that I was using the souls to empower Minion. Others offered the same complaints, and he still approved it. I can't tell you anything different, bud.

The Crown isn't information, it's an item.