Okay, let's talk about the Joker is he Evil, Chaotic, Sinister...WHAT?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Let's start with your opinions of the Joker in the TDK.

How do you view him?

I view him as the prime example of chaos. It doesn't make sense, it isn't nice, and all human beings have it in them.

Is he a victim of an abusive father?

Who knows? How would anyone know? All we got were stories, not origins. Hell, he may not have even had a father.

Is he a man who really hates the world?

No. He's a man that thinks of the world as one giant toy to do whatever he wants with it. The Joker is a force of nature. He's that one character that is so out of sync with everything else, that he does the only thing that keeps him in touch with reality: Violence and Disorder.

Is he the Yang (or Ying of Batman) in this film?

Yes.

Is he evil?

That's the most rhetorical question ever. Is the Joker evil? Are you serious?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Let's start with your opinions of the Joker in the TDK.

How do you view him?

Is he a victim of an abusive father?

Is he a man who really hates the world?

Is he the Yang (or Ying of Batman) in this film?

Is he evil?

Why so philosophical? 😉

My take...The Joker is simply the extreme and a force that should never be try to touch or try to use. You bargain with the devil...if you catch my drift.

In the film he seemed rather sane, he just wanted to change peoples perceptions and prove that even the mightiest hero can fall.

As you said it was basically making a deal with the devil.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
In the film he seemed rather sane

What?

I think the Joker is a deeper character than everyone is making him out to be.

Sure he is the personification of chaos and evil. However I think his main goal in everything he does is to bring others down to his level. To bring out the worst in people is to prove that he is not alone in this world. That was the purpose of his experiment with the ferries, to test the depravity of human nature and to prove that everyone is just like him deep down.

The Joker is a human without a conscience, stripped of all moralities and all he wants is to do is prove that he is not alone.

Originally posted by Gannon
I think the Joker is a deeper character than everyone is making him out to be.

My characterization of him is deep. I just didn't write ten paragraphs on it. He's a character that is indeed chaos incarnate, and to prove his existence wants to show the world that everyone can be as bad as he is.

Originally posted by Toku King
What?

He was quite sane in the film, i mean he had plans and he wanted the mob, he got the mob and corrupted Dent, i don't know he seemed more like a hitman, there were moments where insanity appeared, but compered to his comic version he was a lot more constructive and only really killed people that were important to his plan.

Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
He was quite sane in the film, i mean he had plans and he wanted the mob, he got the mob and corrupted Dent, i don't know he seemed more like a hitman, there were moments where insanity appeared, but compered to his comic version he was a lot more constructive and only really killed people that were important to his plan.

He was insane. He didn't just kill people in necessity. In fact he'd kill just to kill. His entire idea is insane as it is. A lot of what he did is what comic Joker did, tried, or did something similar, and he was insane.

that's your opinion, just to me, he seemed rather sane.

Everyone he killed had a point to his plan, he was always in control as well and he did things for the fun of it.

Why must we use some kind of Dungeons and Dragons classification for characters...?

Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
Why must we use some kind of Dungeons and Dragons classification for characters...?

That he's insane? That's called "reality".

Originally posted by Toku King
That he's insane? That's called "reality".

Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
Erm... no, he isn't real.

He's not real, but his psychosis and cases are.

Originally posted by Toku King
He's not real, but his psychosis and cases are.

((not sure if anyone has mentioned any of what i'm about to say. i scimmed through the other posts, so sorry if i'm repeating))

the best description i've heard for the joker is he suffers from "super-santity", which causes him to reinvent himself to go with the eb and flow of the chaos around him.
if you look at the joker in TDK, you can see he is perfectly sane, because it takes someone really smart to talk to two-face like he did. But you can also see he has ticks, or things that set him off, like the cop that wouldn't look at him, or when the mob guy called him crazy, and you saw the little twitch as he answered "no...i'm...not" very firmly the second time.
As for his "lack or memory" or mixed stories, a line of the jokers in The Killing Joke sums it all up "...if i'm going to have a past, i want it to be multiple choice."
I think the joker is very complex, though maybe not on purpose origianlly, he has just become that, which i think makes the character MUCH better. I certainly hope no author or movie director ever tries to make a story that completely defines the joker, i don't think they could ever do justice to what we all have in mind on who the joker is and what what his problems are.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Let's start with your opinions of the Joker in the TDK.

How do you view him?

A force of nature, a man who simply thinks in a way so beyond human understanding and logic he gives new meaning to the word 'insane'. A person who lives for killing, burning, and destroying, and finds all those things to be hysterically funny and intensely pleasurable.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Is he a victim of an abusive father?

"If I have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

That's a quote from the Killing Joke, as I'm sure you know. I'm certain the Joker had an incident that made him 'snap', but what was it- truly? I don't think even the Joker himself knows. That being said, a lot of people seem to think that he was simply lying and making it up when he gave his different pasts; but I doubt it. I simply think that he is constantly reinventing his past, and may think of other origins for his scars every time.

I believe it's most plausible that he did get cut up in some form. And then he realized the irony of being forced to wear a smile for the rest of his life, used it to form his identity of 'the Joker', and promptly going insane. That, or maybe he did it to himself after 'realizing' how funny the world is. Who knows?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Is he a man who really hates the world?

No. He simply thinks the world is one big joke, and therefore, there is no logic to living with rules. He doesn't hate it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Is he the Yang (or Ying of Batman) in this film?

Yes, definetly.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Is he evil?

Duh.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Why so philosophical? 😉

Because he is, aside from being a murderous psycho, also a man out to prove a point. Well, points is more like it. How someone can so casually go insane, for example.

Originally posted by XornonJay
super-santity

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
A force of nature, a man who simply thinks in a way so beyond human understanding and logic he gives new meaning to the word 'insane'. A person who lives for killing, burning, and destroying, and finds all those things to be hysterically funny and intensely pleasurable.

"If I have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

That's a quote from the Killing Joke, as I'm sure you know. I'm certain the Joker had an incident that made him 'snap', but what was it- truly? I don't think even the Joker himself knows. That being said, a lot of people seem to think that he was simply lying and making it up when he gave his different pasts; but I doubt it. I simply think that he is constantly reinventing his past, and may think of other origins for his scars every time.

I believe it's most plausible that he did get cut up in some form. And then he realized the irony of being forced to wear a smile for the rest of his life, used it to form his identity of 'the Joker', and promptly going insane. That, or maybe he did it to himself after 'realizing' how funny the world is. Who knows?

No. He simply thinks the world is one big joke, and therefore, there is no logic to living with rules. He doesn't hate it.

Yes, definetly.

Duh.

Because he is, aside from being a murderous psycho, also a man out to prove a point. Well, points is more like it. How someone can so casually go insane, for example.

Originally posted by Almighty Bauer
Evil and total insanity are, in my opinion, mutually exclusive. Of course, neither evil nor insanity can be quantified, so it's a moot point.

Except that someone can be both.

Except he didn't appear to truly be insane, just evil.

I think he seemed insane. Anyone who would be laughing as they are falling to their inevitable death IMO has a few screws loose.