Codename 47 vs Bob Lee Swagger · Movie Versus Forum

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Placidity
This is ridiculous.
47 is shown making a 4km shot.

Agreed, he indeed is.

Swagger is shown making a 1 mile shot, and in his reality, the 1 mile shot is almost a myth.

the shot was over a mile, not sure on the exact distance.

Someone had already shown that 47's rifle is inferior to the M200 intervention. So no, Swagger couldn't make a 4km shot with a inferior rifle if he couldn't do it with a better one.

Usually I would demand a link to this info, but I have no reason not to trust that person.

You just said it, 47's rifle is inferior. Swagger, with his more powerful rifle, and with his vast knowledge of shooting, not to mention he is mentioned as being the best, could surely make the same shot.

Think on it like this. If Swagger was there with 47, if they were partners, and they have 47's rifle, and, for some reason he hands it to Swagger and tells him to make the shot, you think Swagger would be able to make it? Mind you they both know what the rifle is capable of, and they both know all there is to know about the shot, distance, windage, etc etc;

I'm sure Swagger could beat Tiger Woods at golf too - if he had his golf club. I mean theres nothing to it right? just swing and hit the darn ball. Must be Wood's mystical golf club.

More likely it's Woods god given talent.

47's feats trumps Swagger's in terms of sniping. You admitted it before, then you keep going back and forth.

I said that once, but then thought on it and realized how incredibly wrong I was. Was I supposed to stick with my original stance, even though I no longer agreed with it?

In the end, its just your illogical speculation, and not going by what is shown in the movie, which is against forum rules. Why a mod has not stepped in, I have no idea (or maybe I do).

More like recognizing that 47 is a world class sniper and acknowledging that he is going to prepare immensely for the shot, he'd be a fool if he didn't.

No one engage RJ's lies that Swagger is a better sniper. You'll only encourage more BS, while getting frustrated at yourself for trying to use logic (and also trying very hard to explain this logic) to debate him.

You are so full of hostility, why can't you just be civil? Sure, I open my mouth and say harsh things sometimes, but it's always retaliatory.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Utrigita
I know, I'm downplaying him now. However have I said that the incident is my own opinion on what happened ore have I asked you to look at the movie? My own personal opinion is that 47 given what he is, made the calculations in his head, adjusted his scope, and pulled the trigger.

Dude, this is what I have been trying to tell you.

Have I said it wasn't fact?

No, but I took it as you implying it. If I was mistaken, my apologies.

Glad we both accept the fact that 47 is a better sniper.

I didnt just agree to that, where did you get that from?

All I'm saying is that according to the movie, he made the shot without any prior need of calculations and adjustments he simply made it which is a testemony to his skill. Of cause as mentioned before time and time again we (all of us) know that this most isn't true.

This contradicts what you said at the top of this post.

That he is the is never stated I would like proof.

It is stated "He's the best there is." word for word.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

You are so full of hostility, why can't you just be civil? Sure, I open my mouth and say harsh things sometimes, but it's always retaliatory.

Why can't you have an honest debate? I don't see you doing this crap outside of Swagger-related topics.

When you make non-sensical claims, most of which is purely speculation, and act like its a fact, it tends to stir people up.

When someone does a better feat, you tried to deny it, but when at last you can't, you just switch to saying he had a better weapon...

Is there proof of this? No.

Does any rational person find this likely at all given what is shown in the movie? No.

Is this purely wild speculation? Yes.

Is this speculation even supported by any facts? No.

Is this a reasonable/honest way to win a debate? No.

And this is the type of nonsense thats been going on for 28 pages now. You really can't blame anyone for going off at you. Really can't dude.

Placidity Chief Executive Officer

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

More likely it's Woods god given talent.

47 is the Tiger Woods of assassination, which includes sniping.

Utrigita Senior Member

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, this is what I have been trying to tell you.

Again that is a personal opinion coupled with speculation, I'm not aware if that is allowed on the forum...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, but I took it as you implying it. If I was mistaken, my apologies.

I wasn't apology accepted.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I didnt just agree to that, where did you get that from?

Told, shown, same shit, If it is in the movie, whether visual or verbal, it is fact.

It's fact that the top range swagger has performed a shot at is 1 mile it's fact that the top 47 has performed a shot at is 2,4 miles. All this nicely concludes 47 sniping > Swagger sniping.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This contradicts what you said at the top of this post.

Not really same scenario, now I'm just adding in my own personal opinion on how 47 performed the shot, again it's a logical conclusion, but again I'm not aware of whether it's allowed on the forum.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It is stated "He's the best there is." word for word.

And you doesn't think it's a reference to sniping since that was what they where discussing about?

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Swagger apparently skipped this day of basic training haermm

go look it up if you dont believe me....but then that would involve learning facts...something you are clearly adverse to doing

jaden101 Restricted

i also see the argument for "swagger took out a helicopter with a sniper rifle" as being a bit irrelevant...he used an anti-material rifle...taking out transportation is what they are designed to do anyway...albeit this usually entails engine blocks of trucks...there's no reason why it wouldn't easily be transferable to a heli travelling towards a position at slightly above the height of the shooter....i would go so far as to say an average marine sniper could make the shot

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Placidity
Why can't you have an honest debate? I don't see you doing this crap outside of Swagger-related topics.

You need to branch out more. I am not too proud to be proven wrong, Look at the Han Solo versus Kirk thread, Robtard convinced me I was wrong and I gladly admitted it.

When you make non-sensical claims, most of which is purely speculation, and act like its a fact, it tends to stir people up.

When I have an opinion about something, I stick to it until I am convinced I am wrong. Am I wrong for that?

When someone does a better feat, you tried to deny it, but when at last you can't, you just switch to saying he had a better weapon...

I am free to question who is the better combatant, in this case I believe it to be Swagger.

Is there proof of this? No.

Of what?

Does any rational person find this likely at all given what is shown in the movie? No.
Is this purely wild speculation? Yes.
Is this speculation even supported by any facts? No.
Is this a reasonable/honest way to win a debate? No.

This forum is for debating who you think will win any given matchup, as I said, this is what I am doing. If you dont like my posts, then place me on ignore, simple as that.

And this is the type of nonsense thats been going on for 28 pages now. You really can't blame anyone for going off at you. Really can't dude.

If someone gets riled up on a damn internet forum, that aint my problem. I'd say they have anger management issues.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Utrigita
Again that is a personal opinion coupled with speculation, I'm not aware if that is allowed on the forum...

I am not breaking any forum rules, but whatever.

It's fact that the top range swagger has performed a shot at is 1 mile it's fact that the top 47 has performed a shot at is 2,4 miles. All this nicely concludes 47 sniping > Swagger sniping.

Yes, we are shown 47 making a 4 km shot, and we are ALSO shown the crosshairs on the targets forehead, right where the bullet strikes. I find it unbelievable that you think Swagger, with a more powerful rifle, or even 47's rifle, AND his vast knowledge of shooting, could not make the same shot. It's like you are in denial.

Not really same scenario, now I'm just adding in my own personal opinion on how 47 performed the shot, again it's a logical conclusion, but again I'm not aware of whether it's allowed on the forum.

You claimed that at first he made calibrations to his rifle, then you reversed that, unless I misunderstood you.

And you doesn't think it's a reference to sniping since that was what they where discussing about?

Likely it was, also that he was the best at more than just sniping. He even goes as far as showing this.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by jaden101
no...swagger wouldn't make the shot...because as i said...the shot is impossible in reality...i'm sure in a movie then yes swagger would make the shot because what would be the point in making a film about a sniper who misses?
not to mention people who are trained in sniping dont do long distance shots to the head...they aim for the body...they only aim for the head at distances around <800 yards (military snipers anyway)

Originally posted by jaden101
go look it up if you dont believe me....but then that would involve learning facts...something you are clearly adverse to doing

Do your research, I have provided links galore in this thread, they have gone unnoticed, so I figured whats the point.

You wanna talk facts?

FACT: 47 Made a 4 km shot
FACT: Swagger is the best, give him a shot like that with his more powerful rifle and the shot is done
FACT: Swagger is shown taking on hordes of bad guys, dozens of them, far more than 47 is shown taking on.
FACT: 47 Made the ONE shot, while Swagger made several.

and FACT: I am convinced that some people here think Swagger is a dumb redneck with a gun.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by jaden101
i also see the argument for "swagger took out a helicopter with a sniper rifle" as being a bit irrelevant...he used an anti-material rifle...taking out transportation is what they are designed to do anyway...albeit this usually entails engine blocks of trucks...there's no reason why it wouldn't easily be transferable to a heli travelling towards a position at slightly above the height of the shooter....i would go so far as to say an average marine sniper could make the shot

It goes to show his tenacity and fighting prowess, he was under fire the entire time and his best friend was just killed. 47 ran like a girl when a chopper confronted him, didnt he?

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Do your research, I have provided links galore in this thread, they have gone unnoticed, so I figured whats the point.
You wanna talk facts?
FACT: 47 Made a 4 km shot
FACT: Swagger is the best, give him a shot like that with his more powerful rifle and the shot is done
FACT: Swagger is shown taking on hordes of bad guys, dozens of them, far more than 47 is shown taking on.
FACT: 47 Made the ONE shot, while Swagger made several.
and FACT: I am convinced that some people here think Swagger is a dumb redneck with a gun.

1...i did my research...you didn't...that much is hugely evident...if you're going to debate sniping ability then you really need to know a little bit about the reality of sniping

in "shooter" swagger is said to be the best...in "hitman" 47 is said to be the best...so your second "fact" is utterly irrelevant

swagger is shown taking on hordes of poorly trained idiots who are no more than terrorists or militia at the beginning of "shooter"...hardly a ringing endorsement of a mans ability...

fact...47 made a humally impossible shot...both in terms of distance and the rifle used....

fact...47 is genetically augmented to be superior to even highly trained "normal" humans...this means his eye sight...his reflexes...then coupled with his training means he'd whup a marine scout/sniper any and every day of the week

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by jaden101
1...i did my research...you didn't...that much is hugely evident...if you're going to debate sniping ability then you really need to know a little bit about the reality of sniping
in "shooter" swagger is said to be the best...in "hitman" 47 is said to be the best...so your second "fact" is utterly irrelevant

Well then you are saying "the best" in 47's world is a higher title than "the best" in Swagger's world?

swagger is shown taking on hordes of poorly trained idiots who are no more than terrorists or militia at the beginning of "shooter"...hardly a ringing endorsement of a mans ability...

They are trained soldiers, vicious killers, and highly trained mercs. Not you average Joe off the street. they were all trained in the art of warfare. The sheer number of them is a testament to Swagger's skills.

fact...47 made a humally impossible shot...both in terms of distance and the rifle used....

He used a telescopic sight that was calibrated so that all he had to do was center the crosshairs on the target and squeeze the trigger. Swagger could have easily done the same.

fact...47 is genetically augmented to be superior to even highly trained "normal" humans...this means his eye sight...his reflexes...then coupled with his training means he'd whup a marine scout/sniper any and every day of the week

Yeah, Swagger is your average run of the mill Marine, Right.

Robtard Senor Member

Originally posted by jaden101
go look it up if you dont believe me....but then that would involve learning facts...something you are clearly adverse to doing

Oh no, he's obviously right, any regular schmoo could make a 4km shot with just a properly calibrated scope. It's a fact, because he said it.

Robtard Senor Member

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He used a telescopic sight that was calibrated so that all he had to do was center the crosshairs on the target and squeeze the trigger. Swagger could have easily done the same.

Once again you show your complete lack of knowledge. Long distance shots take more than just a calibrated scope, if that's all it took, then the competition shooters would be pulling these off at every tournament, or any novice for that matter.

There are several other factors that come into play and what's hysterical in regards to you, the movie Shooter even goes over some of these. Wind, balance, breathing, temperature, humidity and even how you squeeze the trigger are factors that need to be taking into account when making extremely long shots.

So just stop with the idiocy, you're embarrassing yourself more than usual. A 4km shot isn't possible as fact; only reason 47 made it, is because it's an action-fantasy movie and 47 is beyond human capable in it. This is also the reason why he'd win in this fight, he's written to be superior to normal humans.

Scythe The Goat

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well then you are saying "the best" in 47's world is a higher title than "the best" in Swagger's world?
They are trained soldiers, vicious killers, and highly trained mercs. Not you average Joe off the street. they were all trained in the art of warfare. The sheer number of them is a testament to Swagger's skills.
He used a telescopic sight that was calibrated so that all he had to do was center the crosshairs on the target and squeeze the trigger. Swagger could have easily done the same.
Yeah, Swagger is your average run of the mill Marine, Right.

Let me put it bluntly.

Swagger is best, but 47 is bester

Mercs aren't elite, they're just good and I'm not sure you know what a testament is.

A telescopic sight isn't all that was needed, you forgot skill.

Swagger is not a run of the mill Marine, but compared to others, he's nothing. It's like comparing Mark Hamill to Lindsey Lohan, Hamill is clearly the better actor, yet compare Hamill to god, and yeah, he's just a regular run of the mill actor.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Robtard
Once again you show your complete lack of knowledge. Long distance shots take more than just a calibrated scope, if that's all it took, then the competition shooters would be pulling these off at every tournament, or any novice for that matter.
There are several other factors that come into play and what's hysterical in regards to you, the movie Shooter even goes over some of these. Wind, balance, breathing, temperature, humidity and even how you squeeze the trigger are factors that need to be taking into account when making extremely long shots.
So just stop with the idiocy, you're embarrassing yourself more than usual. A 4km shot isn't possible as fact; only reason 47 made it, is because it's an action-fantasy movie and 47 is beyond human capable in it. This is also the reason why he'd win in this fight, he's written to be superior to normal humans.

Let me ask you this. How much do you think 47 prepared for that shot? Scouting out a sniping nest, judging the distance, making all the necessary adjustments to his rifle, all that?

Originally posted by Robtard
Oh no, he's obviously right, any regular schmoo could make a 4km shot with just a properly calibrated scope. It's a fact, because he said it.

I didnt mean it like that and you know it, I was exaggerating for effect. Poor form on my part? Probably.

Rogue Jedi Restricted

Originally posted by Scythe
Let me put it bluntly.
Swagger is best, but 47 is bester
Mercs aren't elite, they're just good and I'm not sure you know what a testament is.
A telescopic sight isn't all that was needed, you forgot skill.
Swagger is not a run of the mill Marine, but compared to others, he's nothing. It's like comparing Mark Hamill to Lindsey Lohan, Hamill is clearly the better actor, yet compare Hamill to god, and yeah, he's just a regular run of the mill actor.

Mercs are usually ex military who arent bound by military rules of engagement, which makes them even more deadly.

Did you just say "Bestest?" haermm

jaden101 Restricted

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well then you are saying "the best" in 47's world is a higher title than "the best" in Swagger's world?
They are trained soldiers, vicious killers, and highly trained mercs. Not you average Joe off the street. they were all trained in the art of warfare. The sheer number of them is a testament to Swagger's skills.
He used a telescopic sight that was calibrated so that all he had to do was center the crosshairs on the target and squeeze the trigger. Swagger could have easily done the same.
Yeah, Swagger is your average run of the mill Marine, Right.

1...yes...that's what i'm saying

2...it was Ethiopia...they're not "highly trained mercs"...they're rabble

3...you're not understanding the facts...the rifle he used shouldn't be capable of shooting people from that distance...it's a mid range rifle...that means 1000 yards or just under a mile at max

and the fact that he used merely a telescopic sight to hit a target 2.5 miles away is quite miraculous....given that swagger needed a rifle with a huge amount of software and technology to calculate distance, windspeed etc to hit a can from 1 mile with a longer range weapon...well that shows how vastly superior a sniper 47 is

final point...well as a marine scout/sniper he would've went through the exact same training as every other marine scout/sniper...so in terms of that then yes...he's a run of the mill marine scout/sniper...the only thing he has in his favour is that it's stated that he has a god given talent for marksmanship

Scythe The Goat

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Mercs are usually ex military who arent bound by military rules of engagement, which makes them even more deadly.
Did you just say "Bestest?" haermm

You might want to read it again, I said "bester" because i'm putting it in terms you can understand.