Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This coming from a person who admits english is not their first language?
What that has to do with anything is beyond me. I put it in easy to read terms because you don't seem to understand that although all of us recognize that Swagger is pretty good, 47 is just the better contender all around.
Originally posted by jaden101Then we have to decide which world they are fighting in, Swaggers or 47's?
1...yes...that's what i'm saying
2...it was Ethiopia...they're not "highly trained mercs"...they're rabbleIt is never stated if they are rabble or not. Rabble or no, 70 men, come on.
3...you're not understanding the facts...the rifle he used shouldn't be capable of shooting people from that distance...it's a mid range rifle...that means 1000 yards or just under a mile at maxAnd if Swagger were side by side with 47, making the same calculations 47 made, attempting the same shot with his more powerful rifle? What then?
and the fact that he used merely a telescopic sight to hit a target 2.5 miles away is quite miraculous....given that swagger needed a rifle with a huge amount of software and technology to calculate distance, windspeed etc to hit a can from 1 mile with a longer range weapon...well that shows how vastly superior a sniper 47 isThe telescopic sight actually makes the shot easier, it zooms in on the target and presents a larger target for the crosshairs.
final point...well as a marine scout/sniper he would've went through the exact same training as every other marine scout/sniper...so in terms of that then yes...he's a run of the mill marine scout/sniper...the only thing he has in his favour is that it's stated that he has a god given talent for marksmanshipAnd the fact that we saw him take on far more men than 47 did.
Originally posted by Scythe70 men.......26 men.....two helicopters........simple math.
What that has to do with anything is beyond me. I put it in easy to read terms because you don't seem to understand that although all of us recognize that Swagger is pretty good, 47 is just the better contender all around.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Swaggers arent? Dude, those are Rambo like numbers.
I have a different mind than you, please understand that. Swagger or Batman taking on all kinds of foes with weapons and so on seems more believable than an engineered assassin who's perfected skills in every sort of way and can make insanely far snipes. They're both works of fiction, granted, but in their own fictional works, 47 has the upper fictional hand.
Originally posted by ScytheI can respect that. I dont agree, but I respect it.
I have a different mind than you, please understand that. Swagger or Batman taking on all kinds of foes with weapons and so on seems more believable than an engineered assassin who's perfected skills in every sort of way and can make insanely far snipes. They're both works of fiction, granted, but in their own fictional works, 47 has the upper fictional hand.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then we have to decide which world they are fighting in, Swaggers or 47's?It is never stated if they are rabble or not. Rabble or no, 70 men, come on.
And if Swagger were side by side with 47, making the same calculations 47 made, attempting the same shot with his more powerful rifle? What then?
The telescopic sight actually makes the shot easier, it zooms in on the target and presents a larger target for the crosshairs.
And the fact that we saw him take on far more men than 47 did.
point 1:...doesn't matter...if 47 is the best in the "better world"...then he's going to be the best in swaggers as well
2...so you tell me where this highly trained ethiopan army is then...not to mention he didn't kill them all himself...i distinctly remember his spotter having a go with a grenade launcher...and he didn't kill them all anyway...he backed off over the hill then shot the copter and done a runner
a telescopic sight that requires manual dialing in and all parameters to be manually taken into account compared with tht of the Cheytac rifle which has a designated laser range finder as well as everything i mentioned previously about enviromental detection and calculation factors...well the telescopic sight is far more difficult to hit a target...
point is...if 47 used a telescopic sight to hit a human target 2.5 miles away...and swagger needed the most advanced computerised scope and software package to hit a target a mile away....then clearly 47 is far better
here's a quote on swaggers rifle
The Long Range Rifle System also includes CheyTac tactical computer (commercial PDA with CheyTac ballistic software), Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X scope, and Kestrel 4000 wind/temperature/atmospheric pressure sensors, linked to the PDA. The Tactical Computer with sensors and internal ballistic database provides all necessary data for long range fire. . CheyTac papers state that the entire System is capable to deliver sub-MOA accuracy at the ranges of up to 2500 yards (2270 meters)
not to mention that swagger needed that rifle to hit a target a mile away...and the best real life shot didn't require that technology to hit a target 1.5 miles away...then swagger isn't even as good as Joe Furlong...and Joe Furlong most likely isn't the best sniper in the real world...
as for him taking on more men...big deal...47 took on 3 other agents trained as he was....and all of them could take on swagger without difficulty...not to mention 47 gets up close....the club scene for example...
Originally posted by jaden101Better world haermm
point 1:...doesn't matter...if 47 is the best in the "better world"...then he's going to be the best in swaggers as well
2...so you tell me where this highly trained ethiopan army is then...not to mention he didn't kill them all himself...i distinctly remember his spotter having a go with a grenade launcher...and he didn't kill them all anyway...he backed off over the hill then shot the copter and done a runnerThe 70 men were reinforcements, after the fact.
a telescopic sight that requires manual dialing in and all parameters to be manually taken into account compared with tht of the Cheytac rifle which has a designated laser range finder as well as everything i mentioned previously about enviromental detection and calculation factors...well the telescopic sight is far more difficult to hit a target...Dude, what does a telescopic sight do? It presents a larger visual target for the shooter, correct?point is...if 47 used a telescopic sight to hit a human target 2.5 miles away...and swagger needed the most advanced computerised scope and software package to hit a target a mile away....then clearly 47 is far better
here's a quote on swaggers rifleSo in your opinion, Swaggers rifle did all the calculations for him? Or did I totally misread that?not to mention that swagger needed that rifle to hit a target a mile away...and the best real life shot didn't require that technology to hit a target 1.5 miles away...then swagger isn't even as good as Joe Furlong...and Joe Furlong most likely isn't the best sniper in the real world...
as for him taking on more men...big deal...47 took on 3 other agents trained as he was....and all of them could take on swagger without difficulty...not to mention 47 gets up close....the club scene for example...96 men compared to 3? I dont know what to say to your thinking 3 well trained killers are harder to take out than 96 men. I really dont.
The 70 men were reinforcements, after the fact.
they were going after the convoy of allied troops that were withdrawing from the area....none of them were in a range where they could fire back except for blindly fire mortars...they clearly weren't highly trained cause none of them were going for cover and they were all running around like headless chickens....
Dude, what does a telescopic sight do? It presents a larger visual target for the shooter, correct?
yes...well done...a telescopic sight does that...where are the cheytec lssr system does a whole lot more to aid the shooter than a telescopic sight could ever do
So in your opinion, Swaggers rifle did all the calculations for him? Or did I totally misread that?
in terms of the cheytec rifle he used for his mile long shot...yes...and its not my opinion...it's the facts as they pertain to that weapon...
96 men compared to 3? I dont know what to say to your thinking 3 well trained killers are harder to take out than 96 men. I really dont.
you really dont know how to counter any of my points...hence the reason for your increased use of stupid laughing smilies rather than actually trying to put up an argument
Originally posted by jaden101Watch the scene again, you are wrong. And those were not the reinforcements.
they were going after the convoy of allied troops that were withdrawing from the area....none of them were in a range where they could fire back except for blindly fire mortars...they clearly weren't highly trained cause none of them were going for cover and they were all running around like headless chickens....
yes...well done...a telescopic sight does that...where are the cheytec lssr system does a whole lot more to aid the shooter than a telescopic sight could ever doThat was a rhetorical question.
in terms of the cheytec rifle he used for his mile long shot...yes...and its not my opinion...it's the facts as they pertain to that weapon...Watch the movie again, Swagger can be seen doing the calculations himself.
you really dont know how to counter any of my points...hence the reason for your increased use of stupid laughing smilies rather than actually trying to put up an argumentI am putting up an argument. I am saying that taking out 96 men is a staggering figure. Rambo like in proportions.
Originally posted by Rogue JediWatch the movie again, Swagger can be seen doing the calculations himself.
he doesn't...he tells the distance to his dog...
here's the reality of the weapon he uses to make the mile shot
Originally posted by jaden101My dear lord.....
he doesn't...he tells the distance to his dog...here's the reality of the weapon he uses to make the mile shot
Scene 3, he is sighting in on the can of stew, lowers his binoculars, then he makes the adjustments to his scope manually. I am watching it right now. He made the adjustments by HAND. You can actually see the crosshairs lowering as he makes the adjustments, BY HAND. THEN he tells his dog "1760's a mile, think the president oughta worry?"
Glover also tells Swagger earlier in the movie that his longest shots were never confirmed, so how far Swagger can shoot is obviously farther than a mile.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
We have, we are talking about Swagger's second to none knowledge of shooting.
Right, so if there was a movie with a man in it who could shoot people by willing the bullets to go towards them, from thousands of miles away, Swagger would still be better, is that what you're saying? As this is about fictional characters from movies, I assume that's exactly what you're saying.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That is currently open for discussion, an assumption on your part. Longer shots dont make one a better sniper. Especially ONE long shot.
Okay, but that's all we've got to go on, so that's all we can go on. Unless of course you've somehow met both fictional characters down at the shooting range. Jesus, you really are a cretin of epic proportions.