Sorry for the late reply btw.
Originally posted by quanchi112
His monarch form was defeated. I still say Prime was knocked back into the timestream by these actions. I mean the Monitor easily survived.The comic supports the bio with both characters standing in opposition to each other.
Odin tried and failed without the use of his shields.
Glad you conceded the argument.
Monarch form? You say it like he's a Pokemon. Monarch is just the name that Captain Atom gives himself whenever he hatebangs the multiverse.
They were both defeated.... which would be a tie. By definition, forum definition, is a tie.
Thanos could barely stand. Odin looked like he could have gone on forever. So no, the comic did not support the bio.
Also, if you're desperate enough to take a false victory for yourself, then that's fine.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Death didn't speak in the entire arc. Do you honestly think the writer has multiple characters state he's unkillable and show him reform by the atoms for it not to be true ? Seriously, lol.
And you missed the entire point.
Let me break this down, because I think that there has been a misunderstanding or just a willful ignorance on your part.
Thanos was not only in the cancerverse (where nothing could die) when drax put an antimatter bomb on his chest, but Death itself was using thanos as her vessel. Again, what evidence other than hearsay from a talking russian telepathic dog do you have to make such a claim? All the evidence points to the fact that death was using thanos as a vessel and left him in the end, and thus the special powers he got from death using him left with her. Anything else is just a fanboyish wet dream about their favorite character being "invincible". I understand that was probably hard for you to hear, but understand, it needed to be said.
Originally posted by quanchi112
There is no evidence at all it was her acting through Thanos. None. You made the claim and we see the entire time Thanos acting under his own power until she comes free from him. It makes no sense for her to even come free if she was using her power through Thanos. She gave him power for this purpose. It wasn't her. You need to back up this claim. Nothing and I mean nothing supports it. When characters state things in comics you ignore that because you want your guy to win. Nope. Sorry.
I already covered this, but just for the sake of repetition, Death pretty much popped out of thanos and it was revealed that she used thanos to slip into the cancerverse undetected. She was within him the entire time. That was the entire point of the series. It was an abstract "undercover" operation. The validity of the claims of the character are contingent upon the knowledge of the character concerning the subject. So again, if Death herself (as opposed to cosmo the russian talking telepathic dog) had have said "Thanos is unkillable and can kill anything." or something even remotely close, then you would have some validity to your claim, but she didn't and you dont.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Where's your proof he's above top tier ? You say he is. Now prove it. I can prove Mar-vell is well above top tier but you can't do the same.
I just told you. He was capable of handling two high heralds like children and not only surviving, but absorbing energy that injured or killed almost every top tier that came into contact with it. He was above top tiers. Also, by your logic, his words were enough to validate this when he referred to the two supermen as cavemen trying to fight a hydrogen bomb when referring to himself. He was a higher evolved kryptonian. It took both of them to even match him and he still wasn't trying. Monarch oneshotted Christopher Kent three times that I can recall.
So why is Vell above top tier? Because he defeated characters from a company that you like as opposed to one that you don't? They both were defeating top tiers effortlessly. So if you want to deny the status of one, you must also do the same for the other. Otherwise, your argument falls into contradiction.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos has shown the power to dominate Surfer before as well. The guy is a physical powerhouse. He has always been written that way. Mar-vell was still free to use his power but was unable to. Thanos would manhandle Prime as well a lot easier than one guardian did so.Pushing something is not greater than destroying it. I guess if I pick up a rock that's more impressive than destroying it with my own hands. tell me which one is harder to do ? LOL. You crack me up.
No. Vell, was a victim of PIS. He only used energy powers up until that point. Then all of a sudden, he goes into a physical battle with thanos and forgets that he has energy powers? Really? You're using that?
Also, prime got handled by a guardian, but thanos got handled by gamora. See how easy it is to lowball? The only difference is that guardians are trans... gamora is certainly not as high....
They should be equally as hard.... if one didn't involve moving the object ftl accross the universe multiple times.
So then if I punch mount everest and make it collapse, then I'm not as strong as I would be if I picked it up and threw it at ftl speeds passed the solar system? 😬
Originally posted by quanchi112
The ff have never ran galactus off under their own power and there were special circumstances tied in from sue's powers which allowed that it wasn't because she was powerful enough on her own. Context, much. My logic is sound yours isn't. Feat debaters lack a real argument and ignore character portrayal which is more important than feats.
The fact that you're using the Thor feat that seriously in this instance is ridiculous. The difference between the ff instance and the thor instance is that Reed actually does this kind of stuff regularly. His intelligence and inventions are such a hax when combined, that yes, he can run off Galactus on average. The Thor instance was ridiculous, unless you actually believe a HH can really run Galactus away under non-PIS circumstances? Also, iirc, galactus fought ego before that and was hungry...
Sue did it under her own power. The rationalization was that the reason why Sue's powers were so strong stemmed from the fact that she got them from the same place as the celestials (hyperspace iirc). It isn't like she used a hammer or anything....
Originally posted by quanchi112
Prime was portrayed as more powerful and showed himself to be more powerful. Under his normal power I don't see him tanking Monarch's blasts. I am right yet again.
He tanked enough of monarch's energy when the amp ran out and the universe exploded. 😐 That's right to you?
Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't prove Prime was ko'd. Prime defeated Monarch and then was warped into the timestream. Prime retained himsel fwhereas Monarch did not. Pretty simple.
You mean other than the fact that he was floating through the timestream unconscious when the timetrapper found him? 😬 Seriously, read LO3W.... then debate with me about Prime.
Captain Atom is alive and well. He even stared in his own arc after he destroyed the universe. Something to do with him being a secret weapon in the service of the army U.S. army in coalition with a dimension of sorcerers. I tied into superman and New Krypton. Anyway.... he and Prime both survived the destruction of the universe.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos is more intelligent bottom line. Monarch's grand plan was raising an army against the Monitors which failed just because Prime showed up. Not a very impressive plan. Thanos has the smarts and the means to breach his armor. Game over.
So getting killed by drax while trying to free Galactus is any smarter? You could make the argument that Drax was his "kryptonite" like I know you will, but if thanos is as smart as you're saying, couldn't he have bypassed that? I mean, superman of all people fights the kryptonite man on the regular and survives, does that mean he's smarter than thanos? At least Monarch got defeated by someone on his level. My point is that you can't validly use that kind of logic when gauging a character's intelligence.
Smarts will do thanos well here, but the result will still be the same. Monarch will win.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Manhandling an above character Mar-vell like nothing. Pushing a planet is cool and all but I mean even Gladiator can destroy one which is more impressive than moving one. Prime is stronger than Gladiator but that's besides the point. feats don't determine this stuff it's how these characters match up and one guardian clearly overpowered Prime.
Again, what has Vell done physically?
So you're contradicting yourself. Gladiator's feat is more impressive than Prime's planet feat?
Again, if you want to battle with low feats, you can, but I'm not that desperate.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Never said it was. I said he did lose and Thanos is well above top tier just like Prime. No evidence to suggest Monarch can beat anyone on Thanos' level. Monarch can beat top tiers into the ground but lucky for Thanos he's a lot more powerful than a top tier.Monarch underestimated Prime and foolishly thought him dead. Thanos isn't stupid nor does he make mistakes such as these. Thanos wins this when he wants to.
No, but you implied it.
I've given you all the evidence that I need to, and you still give basically none and ignore everything that I have put forth. Like I said before, willful ignorance. So you can believe what you want to believe, but either way, like I said before, Monarch wins easily.
Originally posted by Sirius77The dialogue clearly stated after she left him he was still banned from her realm. Until that changes he's still unkillable. the dog is meant to get the writer's message to the reader it isn't there to confuse or lie to the reader. This is simple storytelling.
And you missed the entire point.Let me break this down, because I think that there has been a misunderstanding or just a willful ignorance on your part.
Thanos was not only in the cancerverse (where nothing could die) when drax put an antimatter bomb on his chest, but Death itself was using thanos as her vessel. Again, what evidence other than hearsay from a talking russian telepathic dog do you have to make such a claim? All the evidence points to the fact that death was using thanos as a vessel and left him in the end, and thus the special powers he got from death using him left with her. Anything else is just a fanboyish wet dream about their favorite character being "invincible". I understand that was probably hard for you to hear, but understand, it needed to be said.
I already covered this, but just for the sake of repetition, Death pretty much popped out of thanos and it was revealed that she used thanos to slip into the cancerverse undetected. She was within him the entire time. That was the entire point of the series. It was an abstract "undercover" operation. The validity of the claims of the character are contingent upon the knowledge of the character concerning the subject. So again, if Death herself (as opposed to cosmo the russian talking telepathic dog) had have said "Thanos is unkillable and can kill anything." or something even remotely close, then you would have some validity to your claim, but she didn't and you dont.
I just told you. He was capable of handling two high heralds like children and not only surviving, but absorbing energy that injured or killed almost every top tier that came into contact with it. He was above top tiers. Also, by your logic, his words were enough to validate this when he referred to the two supermen as cavemen trying to fight a hydrogen bomb when referring to himself. He was a higher evolved kryptonian. It took both of them to even match him and he still wasn't trying. Monarch oneshotted Christopher Kent three times that I can recall.
So why is Vell above top tier? Because he defeated characters from a company that you like as opposed to one that you don't? They both were defeating top tiers effortlessly. So if you want to deny the status of one, you must also do the same for the other. Otherwise, your argument falls into contradiction.
No. Vell, was a victim of PIS. He only used energy powers up until that point. Then all of a sudden, he goes into a physical battle with thanos and forgets that he has energy powers? Really? You're using that?
Also, prime got handled by a guardian, but thanos got handled by gamora. See how easy it is to lowball? The only difference is that guardians are trans... gamora is certainly not as high....
They should be equally as hard.... if one didn't involve moving the object ftl accross the universe multiple times.
So then if I punch mount everest and make it collapse, then I'm not as strong as I would be if I picked it up and threw it at ftl speeds passed the solar system? 😬
The fact that you're using the Thor feat that seriously in this instance is ridiculous. The difference between the ff instance and the thor instance is that Reed actually does this kind of stuff regularly. His intelligence and inventions are such a hax when combined, that yes, he can run off Galactus on average. The Thor instance was ridiculous, unless you actually believe a HH can really run Galactus away under non-PIS circumstances? Also, iirc, galactus fought ego before that and was hungry...
Sue did it under her own power. The rationalization was that the reason why Sue's powers were so strong stemmed from the fact that she got them from the same place as the celestials (hyperspace iirc). It isn't like she used a hammer or anything....
He tanked enough of monarch's energy when the amp ran out and the universe exploded. 😐 That's right to you?
You mean other than the fact that he was floating through the timestream unconscious when the timetrapper found him? 😬 Seriously, read LO3W.... then debate with me about Prime.
Captain Atom is alive and well. He even stared in his own arc after he destroyed the universe. Something to do with him being a secret weapon in the service of the army U.S. army in coalition with a dimension of sorcerers. I tied into superman and New Krypton. Anyway.... he and Prime both survived the destruction of the universe.
So getting killed by drax while trying to free Galactus is any smarter? You could make the argument that Drax was his "kryptonite" like I know you will, but if thanos is as smart as you're saying, couldn't he have bypassed that? I mean, superman of all people fights the kryptonite man on the regular and survives, does that mean he's smarter than thanos? At least Monarch got defeated by someone on his level. My point is that you can't validly use that kind of logic when gauging a character's intelligence.
Smarts will do thanos well here, but the result will still be the same. Monarch will win.
Again, what has Vell done physically?
So you're contradicting yourself. Gladiator's feat is more impressive than Prime's planet feat?
Again, if you want to battle with low feats, you can, but I'm not that desperate.
No, but you implied it.
I've given you all the evidence that I need to, and you still give basically none and ignore everything that I have put forth. Like I said before, willful ignorance. So you can believe what you want to believe, but either way, like I said before, Monarch wins easily.
Death rarely if ever speaks so it's another case of you ignoring all dialogue. feats of Thanos simply because you want him to lose. This was mentioned multiple times and Thanos was responsible for providing the means for death to end marvell during the ritual. Thanos was her indestructible avatar of death as explained multiples times in the arc. Thanos reformed from death and was still unkillable up until the point they supposedly destroyed that entire reality. Who knows where the next writer will take Thanos from here but as it stands he's unkillable until further notice.
Kent was a more evolved top tier but still no showings to suggest he's near Thanos or Odin. The point is Thor himself has crushed Ares and Pluto before along with Surfer and warlock but he didn't jump his tier. He's also hurt Celestials though it was irrelevant to them but still this power doesn't make him jump his tier just like Kent. Get it ?
Mar-vell proved it as he oneshotted to death Magus and showed Nova and Surfer to be nothing. Kent didn't prove anywhere near what Mar-vell did. You can't even prove Kent is more powerful than Thor yet you are trying to say he's above him in station.
He didn't forget he had energy powers Thanos just manhandled him much the same way DD manhandled Darkseid. Neither had the opportunity to resist or fight back from what had been done to them. You can't cry pis every time you disagree with something. You do it often.
Thanos didn't use his abilities nor was he really all out trying to kill her. That's the difference and she didn't manhandle him or overpower him she used tactical skills he taught her which suggests a familiarity with him other characters don't have. I don't piss or moan when people bring up these showings I just explain the entire situation, aka I debate.
A guardian overpowered Prime which has to do with strength so don't compare brute strength to tactical fighting it's not one and the same.
The point is destroying something is more impressive than moving it. Prime has the speed to move it that quickly. Again try lifting a ten pound dumbell and then try destroying it and tell me which is harder.
Reed is a hero and will always survive or earth will in the end so he goes down. Reed's failed against galactus as well so please don't run from that instance. He has also tricked Galactus with a fake un iirc. That's just plain stupid as galactus has ca but I guess that doesn't matter reed outsmarted him, right ?
Thor is more powerful than most if not all other hh's so it's irrelevant. He's proven himself as such with these feats and no one is claiming he can beat Galactus one on one but under the right circumstances has shown himself to be powerful enough to run off Galactus while he was weakened.
Sue's powers being tied into them is the only reason it worked. If they came from anywhere else it wouldn't have worked so it's not a case of raw power by any means. How aren't you getting this ?
What's right to me is he had the strength at his normal levels to beat Monarch and through his amp he could tank his attacks. The writer made it clear he was more powerful than usual aka amp.
I did and he was knocked through the timestream imo due to Monarch's powers just like Atom was. That's for another debate and both our minds are made up anyways so leave it be.
Prime was teleported away he wasn't in the universe. The Monitor did so. No where on panel was prime seen after it or mentioned he was bfr'd.
Thanos isn't all knowing. Thanos couldn't have known Drax underwent a dramatic change, had his shields up, and had Moondragon trying to keep him off of him. Drax ripped open the shields with his bare hands I mean even Galactus can't do that. It was unforeseen. Thanos wasn't in a combat situation with Drax which would have changed the result of the fight, dramatically.
Monarch was clearly facing his opponent who wasn't created to destroy him. Superman's also been saved various times by multiple heroes, etc. Thanos came back but his intelligence he doesn't make the stupid/inexcusable mistakes Monarch made against Prime. First off he underestimated him, thought he was dead, and played around. When you add them all up he deserved to lose.
Monarch can't win. Thanos rips open his armor when he wants to.
Vell's power was above top tier yet his power was helpless against a weakened Thanos who easily overpowered him much like DD overpowered Darkseid.
Feats don't determine superiority. Prime is stronger than Gladiator but destroying a planet is more impressive than moving it really fast imo.
You've ignored everything stated in thanos imperative in an attempt to give Monarch an edge he doesn't have. For one he will underestimate Thanos, be overconfident, and get breached like he did against Prime.
Thanos is more powerful, more durable, smarter, and unkillable.
Thanos wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112Shifting the center of the universe....
The dialogue clearly stated after she left him he was still banned from her realm. Until that changes he's still unkillable. the dog is meant to get the writer's message to the reader it isn't there to confuse or lie to the reader. This is simple storytelling.Death rarely if ever speaks so it's another case of you ignoring all dialogue. feats of Thanos simply because you want him to lose. This was mentioned multiple times and Thanos was responsible for providing the means for death to end marvell during the ritual. Thanos was her indestructible avatar of death as explained multiples times in the arc. Thanos reformed from death and was still unkillable up until the point they supposedly destroyed that entire reality. Who knows where the next writer will take Thanos from here but as it stands he's unkillable until further notice.
Kent was a more evolved top tier but still no showings to suggest he's near Thanos or Odin. The point is Thor himself has crushed Ares and Pluto before along with Surfer and warlock but he didn't jump his tier. He's also hurt Celestials though it was irrelevant to them but still this power doesn't make him jump his tier just like Kent. Get it ?
Mar-vell proved it as he oneshotted to death Magus and showed Nova and Surfer to be nothing. Kent didn't prove anywhere near what Mar-vell did. You can't even prove Kent is more powerful than Thor yet you are trying to say he's above him in station.
He didn't forget he had energy powers Thanos just manhandled him much the same way DD manhandled Darkseid. Neither had the opportunity to resist or fight back from what had been done to them. You can't cry pis every time you disagree with something. You do it often.
Thanos didn't use his abilities nor was he really all out trying to kill her. That's the difference and she didn't manhandle him or overpower him she used tactical skills he taught her which suggests a familiarity with him other characters don't have. I don't piss or moan when people bring up these showings I just explain the entire situation, aka I debate.
A guardian overpowered Prime which has to do with strength so don't compare brute strength to tactical fighting it's not one and the same.
The point is destroying something is more impressive than moving it. Prime has the speed to move it that quickly. Again try lifting a ten pound dumbell and then try destroying it and tell me which is harder.
Reed is a hero and will always survive or earth will in the end so he goes down. Reed's failed against galactus as well so please don't run from that instance. He has also tricked Galactus with a fake un iirc. That's just plain stupid as galactus has ca but I guess that doesn't matter reed outsmarted him, right ?
Thor is more powerful than most if not all other hh's so it's irrelevant. He's proven himself as such with these feats and no one is claiming he can beat Galactus one on one but under the right circumstances has shown himself to be powerful enough to run off Galactus while he was weakened.
Sue's powers being tied into them is the only reason it worked. If they came from anywhere else it wouldn't have worked so it's not a case of raw power by any means. How aren't you getting this ?
What's right to me is he had the strength at his normal levels to beat Monarch and through his amp he could tank his attacks. The writer made it clear he was more powerful than usual aka amp.
I did and he was knocked through the timestream imo due to Monarch's powers just like Atom was. That's for another debate and both our minds are made up anyways so leave it be.
Prime was teleported away he wasn't in the universe. The Monitor did so. No where on panel was prime seen after it or mentioned he was bfr'd.
Thanos isn't all knowing. Thanos couldn't have known Drax underwent a dramatic change, had his shields up, and had Moondragon trying to keep him off of him. Drax ripped open the shields with his bare hands I mean even Galactus can't do that. It was unforeseen. Thanos wasn't in a combat situation with Drax which would have changed the result of the fight, dramatically.
Monarch was clearly facing his opponent who wasn't created to destroy him. Superman's also been saved various times by multiple heroes, etc. Thanos came back but his intelligence he doesn't make the stupid/inexcusable mistakes Monarch made against Prime. First off he underestimated him, thought he was dead, and played around. When you add them all up he deserved to lose.
Monarch can't win. Thanos rips open his armor when he wants to.
Vell's power was above top tier yet his power was helpless against a weakened Thanos who easily overpowered him much like DD overpowered Darkseid.
Feats don't determine superiority. Prime is stronger than Gladiator but destroying a planet is more impressive than moving it really fast imo.
You've ignored everything stated in thanos imperative in an attempt to give Monarch an edge he doesn't have. For one he will underestimate Thanos, be overconfident, and get breached like he did against Prime.
Thanos is more powerful, more durable, smarter, and unkillable.
Thanos wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The dialogue clearly stated after she left him he was still banned from her realm. Until that changes he's still unkillable. the dog is meant to get the writer's message to the reader it isn't there to confuse or lie to the reader. This is simple storytelling.Death rarely if ever speaks so it's another case of you ignoring all dialogue. feats of Thanos simply because you want him to lose. This was mentioned multiple times and Thanos was responsible for providing the means for death to end marvell during the ritual. Thanos was her indestructible avatar of death as explained multiples times in the arc. Thanos reformed from death and was still unkillable up until the point they supposedly destroyed that entire reality. Who knows where the next writer will take Thanos from here but as it stands he's unkillable until further notice.
Kent was a more evolved top tier but still no showings to suggest he's near Thanos or Odin. The point is Thor himself has crushed Ares and Pluto before along with Surfer and warlock but he didn't jump his tier. He's also hurt Celestials though it was irrelevant to them but still this power doesn't make him jump his tier just like Kent. Get it ?
Mar-vell proved it as he oneshotted to death Magus and showed Nova and Surfer to be nothing. Kent didn't prove anywhere near what Mar-vell did. You can't even prove Kent is more powerful than Thor yet you are trying to say he's above him in station.
A guardian overpowered Prime which has to do with strength so don't compare brute strength to tactical fighting it's not one and the same.
The point is destroying something is more impressive than moving it. Prime has the speed to move it that quickly. Again try lifting a ten pound dumbell and then try destroying it and tell me which is harder.
Reed is a hero and will always survive or earth will in the end so he goes down. Reed's failed against galactus as well so please don't run from that instance. He has also tricked Galactus with a fake un iirc. That's just plain stupid as galactus has ca but I guess that doesn't matter reed outsmarted him, right ?
Thor is more powerful than most if not all other hh's so it's irrelevant. He's proven himself as such with these feats and no one is claiming he can beat Galactus one on one but under the right circumstances has shown himself to be powerful enough to run off Galactus while he was weakened.
Sue's powers being tied into them is the only reason it worked. If they came from anywhere else it wouldn't have worked so it's not a case of raw power by any means. How aren't you getting this ?
What's right to me is he had the strength at his normal levels to beat Monarch and through his amp he could tank his attacks. The writer made it clear he was more powerful than usual aka amp.
I did and he was knocked through the timestream imo due to Monarch's powers just like Atom was. That's for another debate and both our minds are made up anyways so leave it be.
Prime was teleported away he wasn't in the universe. The Monitor did so. No where on panel was prime seen after it or mentioned he was bfr'd.
Thanos isn't all knowing. Thanos couldn't have known Drax underwent a dramatic change, had his shields up, and had Moondragon trying to keep him off of him. Drax ripped open the shields with his bare hands I mean even Galactus can't do that. It was unforeseen. Thanos wasn't in a combat situation with Drax which would have changed the result of the fight, dramatically.
Monarch was clearly facing his opponent who wasn't created to destroy him. Superman's also been saved various times by multiple heroes, etc. Thanos came back but his intelligence he doesn't make the stupid/inexcusable mistakes Monarch made against Prime. First off he underestimated him, thought he was dead, and played around. When you add them all up he deserved to lose.
Monarch can't win. Thanos rips open his armor when he wants to.
Vell's power was above top tier yet his power was helpless against a weakened Thanos who easily overpowered him much like DD overpowered Darkseid.
Feats don't determine superiority. Prime is stronger than Gladiator but destroying a planet is more impressive than moving it really fast imo.
You've ignored everything stated in thanos imperative in an attempt to give Monarch an edge he doesn't have. For one he will underestimate Thanos, be overconfident, and get breached like he did against Prime.
Thanos is more powerful, more durable, smarter, and unkillable.
Thanos wins.
Being banned from deaths's realm didn't stop him from being killed before, why would it now? She clearly left him and you have no proof to even imply that he retained such powers. The dog was simply a dog. A powerful dog, but a dog nonetheless. She supported the story from her point of view, but it is all still categorized as hearsay. It does not matter what death normally does or doesn't, the fact still stands that she or the narrator or logical on panel evidence still have the final say. If they weren't in the cancerverse, like I said before, and thanos was killed and instantly resurrected, then the argument concerning him being unkillable would be valid, but imo, after death left him, this is not necessarily so.
You would have a point concerning the tier argument if CK had any showings other than the aforementioned ones. However, he does not. All that we now about him is that he slaps around HH's and he has no other low feats to speak of. To put him at just HH when the only opponents he has stomped are HH would be ridiculous imo. The only reason why Superman or Thor do not jump a tier when they do this (which is a lot) is due to the fact that they have been around long enough to have mid range and low feats to buffer their high range ones.
Again, what has Vell done physically? Let's use your argument for a second. Thor has beaten Ares and Pluto, as well as Warlock and Surfer-- Thor is HH, so Lord Mar-Vell must be as well. Correct? By your logic, neither of us can prove that Vell is stronger than Thor. Also, again, what are his physical feats?
So are you implying that Prime can't bust a planet? Also, try destroying a room made of drywall and then lifting it. We could use these colorful examples all day, but the fact still stands that the Earth differs so greatly from any of these materials that the examples are moot, and regardless, Prime can do either.
This isn't a comic book. It's a versus forum discussion. The fact that Reed is a hero means next to nothing. The fact is that he can do what I said, and going off onto a tangent about it serves no purpose.
You should probably admit that you're wrong on that. You said that he never tanked monarch's blasts at his normal levels, but then you agreed that he did and still claimed to be right. Wordplay is fine, but be reasonable.
Leave it be? No. Adam was not knocked through the timestream, he jumped into another dimension iirc, and Prime was unconscious when he was found by the timetrapper. How did CA quantum jump both of them at the same time and then not only end up in different times, but different dimensions? He has never, in any appearance that I am remotely familiar with, done such a thing. There is no evidence to support your assumption. Monarch jumped, and Prime had nowhere to go when the universe was destroyed but the timestream. He ended up in pretty much the same place when he survived the destruction of the multiverse as the timetrapper.
So you're argument is that thanos isn't omniscient. Well neither is monarch. Earth-Prime no longer existed and every version of superman he had encountered had been weaker than him. By his calculations, a faceplate lift should have done the job. However, it did not. It can be argued both ways. So again, you can't validly use that kind of logic or even that kind of example when gauging a character's intelligence.
Neither one of them will underestimate the other, because both are given general knowledge of the other. You're reaching passed forum rules.
I have ignored nothing and you have not proved that thanos is more powerful, more durable, or smarter than monarch, or even unkillable for that matter. You just repeat yourself over and over again, ignore examples and lowball with feats that aren't even low. Monarch still wins. After this, I won't give you a response. Omega is right. This is kind of pointless.
Originally posted by Sirius77After she fled his body according to you he stated he was still banned from death so he still reforms. Your theory has also been wrong as well saying Thanos snuck her in the entire time. I let it go on but now I am going to put the kabash on it. Thanos' death drew her to him which in turn brought her face to face with Mar-vell. She wasn't hiding in Thanos or else all she'd have to do is come out and kill him at any time. Thanos' death in the ritual drew her to this location and nothing more. Your hilarious and incorrect theory about her hiding in his body is one of the most misinterpreted things I have ever heard. I laughed then and am laughing now.
Being banned from deaths's realm didn't stop him from being killed before, why would it now? She clearly left him and you have no proof to even imply that he retained such powers. The dog was simply a dog. A powerful dog, but a dog nonetheless. She supported the story from her point of view, but it is all still categorized as hearsay. It does not matter what death normally does or doesn't, the fact still stands that she or the narrator or logical on panel evidence still have the final say. If they weren't in the cancerverse, like I said before, and thanos was killed and instantly resurrected, then the argument concerning him being unkillable would be valid, but imo, after death left him, this is not necessarily so.You would have a point concerning the tier argument if CK had any showings other than the aforementioned ones. However, he does not. All that we now about him is that he slaps around HH's and he has no other low feats to speak of. To put him at just HH when the only opponents he has stomped are HH would be ridiculous imo. The only reason why Superman or Thor do not jump a tier when they do this (which is a lot) is due to the fact that they have been around long enough to have mid range and low feats to buffer their high range ones.
Again, what has Vell done physically? Let's use your argument for a second. Thor has beaten Ares and Pluto, as well as Warlock and Surfer-- Thor is HH, so Lord Mar-Vell must be as well. Correct? By your logic, neither of us can prove that Vell is stronger than Thor. Also, again, what are his physical feats?
So are you implying that Prime can't bust a planet? Also, try destroying a room made of drywall and then lifting it. We could use these colorful examples all day, but the fact still stands that the Earth differs so greatly from any of these materials that the examples are moot, and regardless, Prime can do either.
This isn't a comic book. It's a versus forum discussion. The fact that Reed is a hero means next to nothing. The fact is that he can do what I said, and going off onto a tangent about it serves no purpose.
You should probably admit that you're wrong on that. You said that he never tanked monarch's blasts at his normal levels, but then you agreed that he did and still claimed to be right. Wordplay is fine, but be reasonable.
Leave it be? No. Adam was not knocked through the timestream, he jumped into another dimension iirc, and Prime was unconscious when he was found by the timetrapper. How did CA quantum jump both of them at the same time and then not only end up in different times, but different dimensions? He has never, in any appearance that I am remotely familiar with, done such a thing. There is no evidence to support your assumption. Monarch jumped, and Prime had nowhere to go when the universe was destroyed but the timestream. He ended up in pretty much the same place when he survived the destruction of the multiverse as the timetrapper.
So you're argument is that thanos isn't omniscient. Well neither is monarch. Earth-Prime no longer existed and every version of superman he had encountered had been weaker than him. By his calculations, a faceplate lift should have done the job. However, it did not. It can be argued both ways. So again, you can't validly use that kind of logic or even that kind of example when gauging a character's intelligence.
Neither one of them will underestimate the other, because both are given general knowledge of the other. You're reaching passed forum rules.
I have ignored nothing and you have not proved that thanos is more powerful, more durable, or smarter than monarch, or even unkillable for that matter. You just repeat yourself over and over again, ignore examples and lowball with feats that aren't even low. Monarch still wins. After this, I won't give you a response. Omega is right. This is kind of pointless.
Your entire argument shot down in one fell swoop and it was only your theory and no where else have I heard anyone screw up these events anywhere near this close. It's funny because no where is it mentioned she was hiding in him yet you treat it as fact. You also ignore every statement from multiple characters about Thanos being unkillable. If he just reformed from the cancerverse his form would change as did the others they didn't reform into their original states atom by atom. This has been all too easy. I have toyed with you from the start.
You can't put him above top tier when he's just a more evolved k-nian who failed to do anything to Monarch in which Prime defeated him due to his strength. This guy was nowhere near Mar-vell and didn't easily kill any high heralds or show himself to be above that level.
Thor has also been temp ko'd by Airwalker. He's also been unable to defeat the Hulk for an indefinite period of time. Thor has also been shown various times to be equal to Hercules. Unlike vell Thor has lost to or been shown equal to top tiers. See the difference. It's quite clear and is hilarious you didn't see the wrinkle in your argument.
Thor isn't going to oneshot Magus to death or toy with Nova or the Surfer who has recently given up holding back. We will also see how these two match up recently I bet thor doesn't laugh him off. Wanna bet on it ?
I am saying destroying something is more impressive not that Prime can't do so. You can't destroy it completely which is the point or all at once. Your example falls short.
Reed also has failed and his powers aren't an autowin. He usually cooks up a plot device which without prep he doesn't have access to. These are glaring holes in your arguments.
You misunderstood me I said he survived long enough due to his amp and then won through his own normal strength.
Prime was unconscious as he was lost in time from the bfr. Prime had nowhere to go, lol. The universe wasn't completely destroyed the Monitor survived it easily without a scratch and so did the shield. Mine is logical yours is not. The Monitor would be able to locate him had he still been there.
Monarch was overconfident in battle and made a grievous error one on one. Thanos doesn't slip up while in mutual combat and unlike Drax Prime wasn't built to kill Monarch.
Monarch underestimated Prime so why not Thanos. He was an arrogant villain.
I have proven all of the above while you have spouted theories, ignored the comics, and stated Monarch wins when he can't kill Thanos or even ko him. Thanos can tear right through that armor as most above top tier I am assuming have the power to do so since it can be ruptured somewhat by a top tier.