Originally posted by Michael643
I don't think there's anything wrong with them as such, and I am sure they can be fun for some. I just won't participate.
McClane > Oakley sunglasses /fact
McClane > Palestine /fact
Originally posted by Michael643
I don't think there's anything wrong with them as such, and I am sure they can be fun for some. I just won't participate.
McClane > Oakley sunglasses /fact
McClane > Palestine /fact
Originally posted by Lestov16
McClane's a durable guy, and I think he beats Van Zan, but I don't think he can take on people like Bauer and Riggs, who routinely and effortlessly kill people with their bare hands (or legs, in the case of Bauer) .
Kills who though? Goons. Not McClanes. Riggs and Bauer are both too reliant on their partners and organisations to be taken seriously as McClane competition.
Its like saying: "Yeah they were a great porn star! Sure they had to be guided in everytime by Tony/Roger, and fluffed by them constantly due to their small soft gigglesticks, and sure the doctor had to keep resussing them...but what the hey..." IE pure retardedness.
Riggs was WTF pwned and totally shut down by a rookie boxer with a basic and unimpressive jab. Against McClane its guaranteed death for Riggs. So no...trolling with that won't work at all.
I'm not going to argue for Riggs. That's Fat Rambo's job.
Also, how is Bauer not McClane competition when he has a 268-killcount?
It's not like McClane is Commando and can take on waves of people. He has to use stealth and cunning just as much as Bauer.
And the only reason McClane needs less help is because he takes on far less opponents. Even the largest group of terrorists McClane ever faced, in DH2, only consisted of 24 people. Bauer takes on entire organizations and international conspiracies.
It also should be noted that McClane has less of a need for info than Bauer. The event is isolated (DH1 and DH2), terrorists usually tell him everything (such as Simon in DH3), or he will have someone with him who knows where to go (Farrell in DH4, and Jack in DH5).
Also, the plots of DH villains are less complex than the plots of 24, and Jack has far more to uncover and stop. The plot of a Die Hard film usually consists of 1/3 of what Jack has to deal with on an average day.
That being stated, I do think McClane is a better gunfighter, and I don't think Bauer would have been able to pull off the shots John did at the end of Die Hard 1. But as far as CQB goes, Bauer definitely has the advantage.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Kills who though? Goons.
US military black ops commandos (Coral Snake), mercenary commandoes (McLennen Forster and Starkwood), Chinese military commandos (Zhou's men and Cheng's men at the oil rig), and ex-US military assassins who specialize in CQB (John Quinn), amongst others.
Originally posted by Lestov16
US military black ops commandos (Coral Snake), mercenary commandoes (McLennen Forster and Starkwood), Chinese military commandos (Zhou's men and Cheng's men at the oil rig), and ex-US military assassins who specialize in CQB (John Quinn), amongst others.
That's....a pwn, actually.
You already did above, actually. Oh its his 'job' whats the salary? Is it "looking like a dick on the net" per week?
Cause anyone whom would argue Riggs over Mcclane gets paid just that. The position was closed years agao anyway when his employer was murdered by Mcclane over and over again in multiple debates.
McClane is smarter. He knows that the best way to do it is to isonlate them from the pack and do em a few at a time.
(Except when he kills whole platoons at a time with a mere Zippo, of course)
Mcclane took on organisations and internationalist conspiracies too.
Oh you imply that the people McClane 'is with' (IE: Is protecting, whilst ruining bad guys) are guides who Mcclane would somehow be helpless without...well what you forget, is that without McClane they'd be dead. Also they are the reason he is involved, so without them, he'd be down the local pub or busting other arseholes..
Proportionally- 24 hours of running time against a 2 hour movie?
McClane makes 24 look like a slow paced emotional family drama.
Bauer will always be at a disadvantage against McClane.
Without CTU and Tony he is screwed. He has never faced someone of McClane's calibre.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane is smarter. He knows that the best way to do it is to isonlate them from the pack and do em a few at a time.
Why would McClane be smarter Given how has taken down squads of commandos himself, I'm pretty sure he knows how to tactically take down a group of people. Bauer is ex-Delta Force. Why wouldn't he know how?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
(Except when he kills whole platoons at a time with a mere Zippo, of course)
That's circumstance, it's not like it's a skill that he can do that to any platoon at any time. And had he beaten Stuart and entered the plane, they would have turned him into swiss cheese, so it's not like he can engage a platoon in combat.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Mcclane took on organisations and internationalist conspiracies too.
The POTUS has tried to kill McClane? The Russian President as well?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Oh you imply that the people McClane 'is with' (IE: Is protecting, whilst ruining bad guys) are guides who Mcclane would somehow be helpless without...well what you forget, is that without McClane they'd be dead.
Same can be said for Chloe, who is Jack's sole CTU support most of the time.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Also they are the reason he is involved, so without them, he'd be down the local pub or busting other arseholes..
Exactamundo 🙂 John basically has the plot handed to him to on a silver platter, so it's just like a video game and all he has to do is kill everybody and get to the final boss. Consider DH4, where had John not been transporting Farell, Gabriel's plan would have worked perfectly. Farrell told him everything he needed to know. Jack doesn't get that. Jack actually has to go finding nuclear bombs based on nothing but slight hunches, so he needs more help, because, as I've stated, he takes on more complex situations.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Proportionally- 24 hours of running time against a 2 hour movie?
McClane makes 24 look like a slow paced emotional family drama.
Again, the situations McClane takes on are far more simplistic than the ones that Jack does. When McClane stops:
-An assassination team hired by the White House Chief of Staff who have framed him fort the murder of the former POTUS, making him the most wanted man alive
-a hostage siege with terrorists who aren't motivated by greed, and thus are wearing suicide vests
-A terrorist attack on a mall
-A terrorist attack on a natural gas plant (killing thousands in their homes)
-The POTUS himself sending assassination teams to kill him
- A terrorist invasion of a sub, who intend to launch it's missiles at LA
all in the course of a single day, like Jack did in Day 5, then McClane can say he's done more than Bauer.
Also, Jack actually has to investigate to discover the plot. He doesn't get it handed to him like McClane does. Consider DH3, where had Simon not contacted McClane, his plan would have worked without a hitch. Jack doesn't get such support. The villains don't call him up and tell him where to find the nuke. He has to go find it himself, which is why he needs more help.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Bauer will always be at a disadvantage against McClane.
Without CTU and Tony he is screwed. He has never faced someone of McClane's calibre.
Not really. It's more of the other way around. McClane will always be at a disadvantage against Bauer because without the situations he takes on being so simplistic, Mcclane would be screwed. McClane has never taken on situations of the calibre Bauer takes on, and has never faced someone of Bauer's calibre and combat prowess.
Wow your butthurt fuelled desires are trying to derail this thread now too? Very well I shall reply this once in here, but I shall not aid your mission any further afterwards. You lost your various Bauer/McClane debate threads before, you airn't turning this social thread into another of them...
Originally posted by Lestov16
Why would McClane be smarter Given how has taken down squads of commandos himself, I'm pretty sure he knows how to tactically take down a group of people. Bauer is ex-Delta Force. Why wouldn't he know how?
That's circumstance, it's not like it's a skill that he can do that to any platoon at any time. And had he beaten Stuart and entered the plane, they would have turned him into swiss cheese, so it's not like he can engage a platoon in combat.
The POTUS has tried to kill McClane? The Russian President as well?
Same can be said for Chloe, who is Jack's sole CTU support most of the time.
'Support most of the time' is not a phrase that applies to McClane.
Exactamundo 🙂 John basically has the plot handed to him to on a silver platter, so it's just like a video game and all he has to do is kill everybody and get to the final boss. Jack actually has to go finding nuclear bombs based on nothing but slight hunches, so he needs more help, because, as I've stated, he takes on more complex situations.
Nope. Its often hidden from him, presented to him as a completely different situation. He then finds out the real plot and he kills all involved.
Again, the situations McClane takes on are far more simplistic than the ones that Jack does. When McClane stops:
-An assassination team hired by the White House Chief of Staff who have framed him fort the murder of the former POTUS, making him the most wanted man alive
-a hostage siege with terrorists who aren't motivated by greed, and thus are wearing suicide vests
-A terrorist attack on a mall
-A terrorist attack on a natural gas plant (killing thousands in their homes)
-The POTUS himself sending assassination teams to kill him
- A terrorist invasion of a sub, who intend to launch it's missiles at LA
all in the course of a single day, like Jack did in Day 5, then McClane can say he's done more than Bauer.
McClane is longer serving on screen his universe suggests that he deals with shit like that all the time, some of which before his 1st dump of the day.
Also, Jack actually has to investigate to discover the plot. He doesn't get it handed to him like McClane does. Consider DH3, has Simon not contacted McClane, his plan would have worked without a hitch. Jack doesn't get such support. The villains don't call him up and tell him where to find the nuke. He has to go find it himself, which is why he needs more help.
Actually Simon presented McClane with a dummy plot as distraction whilst the wall street robbery was in progress...McClane sussed him out and killed him and his people. Just like against all the others he faces.
Not really. It's more of the other way around. McClane will always be at a disadvantage against Bauer because without the situations he takes on being so simplistic, Mcclane would be screwed. McClane has never taken on situations as the calibre Bauer takes on, and has never faced someone of Bauer's calibre and combat prowess.
But they arent simplistic. Anyone who has seen DH1-DH5 would know that. You are either blind to this or trolling.
McClane has...hes dealt justice to top seals, mercs, military: All made dead by Mcclaneage.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Wow your butthurt fuelled desires are trying to derail this thread now too? Very well I shall reply this once in here, but I shall not aid your mission any further afterwards. You lost your various Bauer/McClane debate threads before, you airn't turning this social thread into another of them...
I'm just asking why you think McClane beats Bauer in CQB, and your answers aren't factual correct.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Because knowledge is different to intelligence. Some people had amassed info but have been as thick as two short Van Za- erm.. planks.
What has McClane done to prove he's smarter than Bauer? Bauer almost assassinated the Russian President on a whim, and only stopped due to his own mercy.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane is a better adapter and overcomer that requires better smarts than someone who has just been trained out of a manual, for example..
LOL. Bauer stomps Mcclane in the adapting/overcoming situations category, considering the various events he has to stop in the course of a single day. McClane can stop terrorist attacks, but can he do so while proving his innocence for being framed for the murder of a POTUS?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
someone who has just been trained out of a manual, for example..
LOL. Did you just downplay Delta Force (as well as LAPD SWAT and the CIA, which Bauer was a member of)? Also, Jack has participated in multiple covert operations, so it's not like he isn't field experienced (he'd have to be to be in Delta Force)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Adapt and overcome> Circumstance
See answer to previous question.
So you're saying McClane can take on a military platoon anytime, anywhere? LOL.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The military and FBI tried killing McClane three times throughout the run so far.
That is....a considerably less amount of times (and people) than military members who have attempted to kill Bauer.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
[B]'Support most of the time' is not a phrase that applies to McClane.
Yes it is. McClane wouldn't have won without Barnes in DH2, wouldn't have even been involved in DH3 if not for Simon, Farrell drove the plot of DH4, and his son, Jack was his buddy cop in DH5.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nope. Its often hidden from him, presented to him as a completely different situation. He then finds out the real plot and he kills all involved.
finds out=stumbles into
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane is longer serving on screen his universe suggests that he deals with shit like that all the time, some of which before his 1st dump of the day.
Screenfeats only.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Actually Simon presented McClane with a dummy plot as distraction
And by doing so, he allowed McClane to track him down and discover his true plan. Bauer doesn't get the advantage of such PIS.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But they arent simplistic. Anyone who has seen DH1-DH5 would know that. You are either blind to this or trolling.
How are they as complex/more complex than the one's that Jack deals with?
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane has...hes dealt justice to top seals, mercs, military: All made dead by Mcclaneage.
When has he taken on a Navy SEAL? And I've already shown that Jack takes on military and mercenaries too.
When has he taken on a Navy SEAL? And what exactly have I stated that is a lie? Please provide the exact quote, along with a detailed explanation of why it's wrong using McClane's screenfeats.
Are you saying he didn't need Barnes, Farrell's, and Jack's help, and didn't need Simon to tell him where the bombs were in order to track them down? Even John Matrix needed the flight attendants help to escape from police custody, but you're trying to act like McClane is Jason Bourne and needs no help whatsoever, which is bogus.
Please provide proof of every point in which you didn't lie.
(youre the one trying to troll and rehash old ground needlessly.
Just one such example of your lies: Ninja Chick issue.
He KO'd her. Then killed her yet according to you she destroyed him. And won. You've argued RJ's old tired long disproved over and over in an effort to troll.)
Dude you stooped so low in your butthurtery that you accused some stairs of helping McClane, in attampt to deny him of his victory by neck snapage over Karl's brother.
The pointers McClane recieved from the people he was protecting were nothing compared to the constant on tap help from CTU and Tony..Your attempts constantly to put words in my mouth are yet another sign of the derailing attempts that are just typical of your MO.