United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

Started by Strangelove143 pages

Originally posted by KidRock
So what you're saying is the Bill of Rights really is "The Bill of Rights...Rights that can be taken away"?
The Constitution is a document that can be changed, but it is incredibly difficult to do so.

The Bill of Rights is never going away.

Originally posted by Strangelove

The Bill of Rights is never going away.

Well this is where the problem is. Some of Obama's thoughts and ideas seem to say otherwise

Originally posted by KidRock
I am saying it makes me worry when a politician can cut out pieces of the Bill of Rights.

Then you're not a real patriot.

Originally posted by KidRock
I am saying it makes me worry when a politician can cut out pieces of the Bill of Rights.

Does that include "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense". Or is that okay if Bush and McCain want to cut that out?

Originally posted by KidRock
Well this is where the problem is. Some of Obama's thoughts and ideas seem to say otherwise
Barack Obama has said that the Constitution does include an individual right to own a gun, and the Supreme Court agrees; it was the biggest development in 2nd Amendment interpretation since the late 19th century.

What else in the Bill of Rights does Obama allegedly want to change?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Does that include "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense". Or is that okay if Bush and McCain want to cut that out?

Were they Americans that had this right constricted?

Originally posted by Strangelove
Barack Obama has said that the Constitution does include an individual right to own a gun, and the Supreme Court agrees; it was the biggest development in 2nd Amendment interpretation since the late 19th century.

What else in the Bill of Rights does Obama allegedly want to change?

He wants to change the Second..that alone makes me worry and if he is allowed to change it, it would open the door to others to change the rest.

Originally posted by KidRock
Were they Americans that had this right constricted?

That doesn't say it only applies to Americans.

Originally posted by KidRock
Were they Americans that had this right constricted?

It's more about legislation disregarding that, than actual incidents.

Originally posted by KidRock
He wants to change the Second..that alone makes me worry and if he is allowed to change it, it would open the door to others to change the rest.
Your allegation is flimsy at best.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That doesn't say it only applies to Americans.

Why would the Bill of Rights apply to citizens of other countries???

Originally posted by Strangelove
Your allegation is flimsy at best.

Ok Obama didn't support the DC gun ban, didn't support an Illinois handgun ban, doesnt want to ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.

Have you read your own thread at all?

Because maybe we want to set an example that we're a good and just country?

Originally posted by KidRock
Why would the Bill of Rights apply to citizens of other countries???

As long as they're within our borders they would be subject to all of our laws and as such protection under our laws.

Rights a very flimsy and easy to get rid of.

... Patriot act and warrantless wiretapping is fine... the centralization of power in the White House... torture is apparently fine... etc etc

Eight years of an administration that treats your constitution like toilet paper... but the big worry is restrictions on the ownership of lethal weapons.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Snip of a finger is certainly overstated. But I assume it can be done easier than some other things. And it is quite nauseating.

I think I made this same point earlier...

Yes, I'd dissolve the very useless and problem making organization known as the DEA, legalize a plethora of drugs, and implement a regulation and taxation of drugs. (In no particular order, of course.)

I also watched Sicko. Mr. Moore, as usual, makes some great points in his semimentaries*. It was, at times, very easy to see where he was stretching it or very illogically using anedotes to prove a point.

Watch "Michael Moore Hates America". I'm much more inclined to believe the content of that movie than I am in any film Michael Moore made. Am I wrong?

*This word is something I made up just now. It is "semi-documentary". Mix in some truth, real facts, and truthy footage with some lies, false progoganda, illogic, and hyperbole and you have a Michael Moore film.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think I made this same point earlier...

YEAH YOU MADE EVERY POINT EARLIER, HAVEN'T YOU?

I'm jesting, of course.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, I'd dissolve the very useless and problem making organization known as the DEA, legalize a plethora of drugs, and implement a regulation and taxation of drugs. (In no particular order, of course.)

I also watched Sicko. Mr. Moore, as usual, makes some great points in his semimentaries*. It was, at times, very easy to see where he was stretching it or very illogically using anedotes to prove a point.

Watch "Michael Moore Hates America". I'm much more inclined to believe the content of that movie than I am in any film Michael Moore made. Am I wrong?

*This word is something I made up just now. It is "semi-documentary". Mix in some truth, real facts, and truthy footage with some lies, false progoganda, illogic, and hyperbole and you have a Michael Moore film.

I can understand trusting things that say bad stuff about Michael Moore, he seems like a dishonest *******. Nonetheless, as you say he does have a good point at times, it's just...well...so dishonest.

Oh, also, I think you should get a woscar. It's a word I just made up, it's like an Oscar for Wankers.

Originally posted by Bardock42
YEAH YOU MADE EVERY POINT EARLIER, HAVEN'T YOU?

I'm jesting, of course.

PARROT! argue

Originally posted by Bardock42
I can understand trusting things that say bad stuff about Michael Moore, he seems like a dishonest *******. Nonetheless, as you say he does have a good point at times, it's just...well...so dishonest.

Indeed. When you can go down a "documentary's" facts and arguing points and go:

True
False
True
False
Staw Man

etc.

When does it stop being a documentary? (BTW, people have done that to his films. Even people interviewed in his films get pissed with the way he edits, cuts, and rearranges the content. There's several followup interviews with those people, too.)

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, also, I think you should get a woscar. It's a word I just made up, it's like an Oscar for Wankers.

😆 😆 😆

I gladly except. When do I get TV time to accept my speech? I would love to do wankerish things on national television.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Indeed. When you can go down a "documentary's" facts and arguing points and go:

True
False
True
False
Staw Man

etc.

When does it stop being a documentary? (BTW, people have done that to his films. Even people interviewed in his films get pissed with the way he edits, cuts, and rearranges the content. There's several followup interviews with those people, too.)

It's a thin line, I suppose most documentaries have some sort of bias, but a handy little rule of thumb I found works to determine which "documentaries" are a few steps beyond that line is whether more than 5 million people have seen it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
😆 😆 😆

I gladly except. When do I get TV time to accept my speech? I would love to do wankerish things on national television.

The Woscar Academy is dedicated to preventing, at all costs, their recipients from getting any TV time, ever.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's a thin line, I suppose most documentaries have some sort of bias, but a handy little rule of thumb I found works to determine which "documentaries" are a few steps beyond that line is whether more than 5 million people have seen it.

That's actually a good rule.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The Woscar Academy is dedicated to preventing, at all costs, their recipients from getting any TV time, ever.

Too bad for them, I've already gotten local tv time. WOOT!

Originally posted by Bardock42
Does that include "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense". Or is that okay if Bush and McCain want to cut that out?
NO! Kill dem terrists.