United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

Originally posted by BackFire
I think Obama will win either Virginia or Colorado. Colorado looks more likely though. He's ahead in all the polls there right now, even during this time when McCain is at his highest point.

Those are going to be the two important states this year. They'll decide this thing.

Originally posted by Strangelove
you still have much to learn about polling.

The fact that it means nothing.

Polling done in early September has very little if any predictive qualities of what will happen on Nov. 4th.

Originally posted by KidRock
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/533kqlep.asp

Barack Obama giving tax cuts to those who already pay no taxes.

People that don't pay taxes don't typically care what you tell them they should pay in taxes anyway.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Why does America have this College vote system?

It strikes me as a little, odd.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
According to conspiracy theorists: to take power away from the people
According to the founding fathers: to take power away from the people

Originally posted by Strangelove
That's pretty much it. It was a check on the people. It assumed that with the limited technology of the time, and fledgling education system, voters might not make the right decision. So the electoral college was actually a deliberative body, who made decisions. But now it basically just votes with the state and it's effectively useless.

So why not abolish it and go for a straight popular vote?

Because that requires amending the Constitution. Which as I've mentioned before, is hard to do.

Originally posted by Strangelove
That's pretty much it. It was a check on the people. It assumed that with the limited technology of the time, and fledgling education system, voters might not make the right decision. So the electoral college was actually a deliberative body, who made decisions. But now it basically just votes with the state and it's effectively useless.

Absolutely incorrect! The electoral college was a compromise. the smaller states were concerned about being ruled by the more populated states (essentially taxation without representation) one of the main reasons the revolutionary war was fought in the first place. without the electoral college the more populated states would rule regardless of how the smaller states voted.

The electoral college serves the same purpose today as it did then, it ensures that even a small state will have some say in who is elected president.

Originally posted by iraiam
Absolutely incorrect! The electoral college was a compromise. the smaller states were concerned about being ruled by the more populated states (essentially taxation without representation) one of the main reasons the revolutionary war was fought in the first place. without the electoral college the more populated states would rule regardless of how the smaller states voted.

The electoral college serves the same purpose today as it did then, it ensures that even a small state will have some say in who is elected president.

You're thinking of Congress. The electoral college serves no purpose in modern times.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're thinking of Congress. The electoral college serves no purpose in modern times.

No I'm not thinking of congress, senators and representatives are elected by citizens of independent states and sent to Washington to represent the people who elected them (that is both houses of congress).

The electoral college ensures that even a small state has some say in who is elected to commander in chief.

Originally posted by iraiam
No I'm not thinking of congress, senators and representatives are elected by citizens of independent states and sent to Washington to represent the people who elected them (that is both houses of congress).

The electoral college ensures that even a small state has some say in who is elected to commander in chief.

The electoral college isn't about balancing the states' powers. Splitting Congress into two houses does that. If anything I'd like to point out that the electoral college is the only thing that gives states any say in who is elected at all. No electoral college makes them all completely equal.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The electoral college isn't about balancing the states' powers. Splitting Congress into two houses does that. If anything I'd like to point out that the electoral college is the only thing that gives states any say in who is elected at all. No electoral college makes them all completely equal.

Without the electoral college all there is is popular vote for president. So a state like California would be far more powerful in electing a president. there would be no need to campaign in smaller states that could not compete with the amount of people that live in California. exactly the situation the electoral college was made to avoid.

The presidential candidates could just pander to the more populated states and ignore the smaller ones, effectively giving the people in those small states no representation whatsoever at the executive level.

Originally posted by iraiam
Without the electoral college all there is is popular vote for president. So a state like California would be far more powerful in electing a president. there would be no need to campaign in smaller states that could not compete with the amount of people that live in California. exactly the situation the electoral college was made to avoid.

The presidential candidates could just pander to the more populated states and ignore the smaller ones, effectively giving the people in those small states no representation whatsoever at the executive level.

With direct voting everyone has the exact same amount of power, meaning there is more need to pander to everyone.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
With direct voting everyone has the exact same amount of power, meaning there is more need to pander to everyone.

well, we can go back and forth all night, but that is why the electoral college exists, It was a compromise made at the foundation of the our government to satisfy the smaller states concerning the election of the president.

I doubt very seriously that a constitutional amendment to get rid of it will happen anytime soon, or even in my lifetime.

If you want more specific information I finally found the name of it in an old notebook from school it is commonly referred to as "The Connecticut Compromise" it happened in 1787. a google search should find a bunch of stuff.

Originally posted by iraiam
If you want more specific information I finally found the name of it in an old notebook from school it is commonly referred to as The Connecticut Compromise it happened in 1787.

Do me a favor, go actually look up the Connecticut Compromise outside of that notebook.

uh..ok here's the first 2 of 238,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise

http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/amrev/begin.htm

I should have suggested you read them as well.

"It proposed a bicameral legislature, resulting in the current United States Senate and House of Representatives."

"The Compromise was submitted to the constitutional convention to break the deadlock created by the New Jersey Plan and The Virginia Plan. The convention decided, after months of debate, that the legislature will be bicameral, meaning there will be two houses, one house will have equal representation, while the other is based on population of the state."

As I said, you're thinking of Congress not the electoral college.

😂

Originally posted by iraiam
Absolutely incorrect! The electoral college was a compromise. the smaller states were concerned about being ruled by the more populated states (essentially taxation without representation) one of the main reasons the revolutionary war was fought in the first place. without the electoral college the more populated states would rule regardless of how the smaller states voted.

The electoral college serves the same purpose today as it did then, it ensures that even a small state will have some say in who is elected president.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I should have suggested you read them as well.

"It proposed a bicameral legislature, resulting in the current United States Senate and House of Representatives."

"The Compromise was submitted to the constitutional convention to break the deadlock created by the New Jersey Plan and The Virginia Plan. The convention decided, after months of debate, that the legislature will be bicameral, meaning there will be two houses, one house will have equal representation, while the other is based on population of the state."

As I said, you're thinking of Congress not the electoral college.

What is truely annoying as an American is that I have yet to find one Obama supporter that can state anything he's done.

Not saying McCain is any better or what not but I think this speaks volumes of how the American voting system have totally gone down the tubes.

Originally posted by ESP07
What is truely annoying as an American is that I have yet to find one Obama supporter that can state anything he's done.

Not saying McCain is any better or what not but I think this speaks volumes of how the American voting system have totally gone down the tubes.

Just because people are people are voting for someone doesn't mean they have to have a good reason for it. Look at 2004.