United States Presidential Election 2008 - Official Discussion Thread

This idea that a debate shouldn't be done in a time of crisis is such BS. Several presidential debates have taken place during a crisis.

No, this is nothing more than a spastic political stunt to either avoid the debate entirely or to simply wait it out in hopes that it wouldn't be about the Economy (as it inherently would be if it takes place this friday) and revert the topic back to foreign policy, where McCain is more comfortable.

Make no mistake, McCain will have jack shit to do with the end result of the bailout plan, he's not in the committee that is handling this and whatever ends up happening would have happened regardless of whether McCain or Obama or Mickey Mouse was there. This is nothing more than a glorified photo-op for McCain, so he can attempt to take credit for whatever happens, despite the solution already being in the process of happening. Him and his followers will commit the fallacy of confusing correlation and causation - "Well, a solution happened, and McCain was there when it did happen, thus he was the reason for it". All under the facade of country first. Just like it was country first choosing Palin. Just like it was Country first by completely altering his message from "i have experience" to "i'm now a change agent because I picked a young milf". This is just a gimmick to try and give him a bump in the polls as his campaign needed another shock-tactic to get people talking about him again.

It's not an act of patriotism, it's an act of desperation.

Also it's worth noting the fact that Obama was the one that initially brought up the idea of a bipartison joint-statement with McCain to try and give people some confidence and show that they are both willing to put party and politics aside for the greater good. McCain simply wanted to one up him, and this "I'm going back to work to sit and take credit for whatever happens" was the first thing that pops into his head.

And Selina don't try and pass yourself off as an Obama supporter, you've said yourself that you don't even like him and you're only voting for him because he has a 'D' next to his name on the ballot, so let's cut the bullshit.

Let's marry...

I mean, if you're up for it.

Ok.

You're the power bottom though.

Better hurry, before it's banned in November.

They're rocking the vote, you know.

(Let's start by saying I'm not an Obama nor McCain supporter. They're both rather lacking; simply the latter is more lacking policy-wise.)

This is pretty clearly a political stunt - it's not about "putting country first" etc bullshit etc

That being said, I think it's a political stunt designed to try and make himself look leader-like; rather than the other potential reasoning of not being able to handle running his campaign and serving in the Senate/"fixing the economy" (the latter as noted will not be his task at present and should not be to his credit should the rescue package pass); nor do I think it's to avoid the debate - as they'll have to debate eventually.

Although the latter two are still perfectly plausible I suppose; the last being possible should McCain try and skip the debate altogether.

For the record, I don't think it's the "can't do two things at once" as fact (I'm sure he could run his campaign, be in Washington at the same time and make room for the debates, we do have private jets), just that it's an impression he could potentially put out.

I get the feeling this is how he prepares for a debate.

Put it on hold then go to an economics discussion so he doesn't look a dunce in the debates.

I can imagine him listening to what everyone is saying and preparing to say it in the debate.

It's also a smart move, politically. The polls are telling McCain that more people than not are blaming the Repulicans on the sinkhole that is the U.S. economy, wrong or right, it's just the way America is leaning.

Originally posted by Devil King
Don't pass yourself off as someone who "understands" the bullshit the McCain camp is shoveling. It isn't just a weakness, it's high-tailing. As Mr. Obama said in his covntion speech, he welcomes the debates. Now Mr. McCain is Ike-ing the debates? If you are really an Obama suporter, you have to have some realistic knee-jerk reaction to this bullshit. McCain is saying that the country is in too bad a shape to have an actual debate? The republican national convention had to go on hold because of a shitstorm and now the debates do as well? What is more appropriate than a debate at this point? Each candidate is going to offer his solution to it and you think it should go on hold because Herr McCain is part and parcel of the party that got us into this mess? No thanks. If you're disappointed in Obama, then you have a lot to learn. Obama was the one that said "let's work this out" and Mr. McCain was the one that rushed out the door and assumed that position as his own. The president didn't call anyone to task until Mr. Obama called for it. Shame on you pretending that this gimmick actually addresses this disaster in any way other than to be totally polically employeed. Country First, my ass! Suspended my ass.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Wow. I never said the gimmick did address the disaster and I said it was completely a political maneuver. This is why I am so glad I am not as caught up in this election as I was in the past ones. Some of these Obama supporters out here...don't even read just go on the attack the moment someone says they don't like what he did

You said "I think it's obvious McCain didn't suspend his campaign because he couldn't handle running both, but because he felt like it was a show of his respect to the greater problems in this country." ... which is imo not why he did it.

Originally posted by BackFire

And Selina don't try and pass yourself off as an Obama supporter, you've said yourself that you don't even like him and you're only voting for him because he has a 'D' next to his name on the ballot, so let's cut the bullshit.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You said "I think it's obvious McCain didn't suspend his campaign because he couldn't handle running both, but because he felt like it was a show of his respect to the greater problems in this country." ... which is imo not why he did it.

Also has Joe Biden's latest gaffe been addressed? When is the Obama campaign going to reduce him to script only statements? Soon I hope, lol

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Also has Joe Biden's latest gaffe been addressed? When is the Obama campaign going to reduce him to script only statements? Soon I hope, lol

Which gaffe exactly, as he's had several? That's the job of the McCain campaign; they are and have been.

“Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence is demonstrate that he or she knows what their talking about and communicates to people, if you listen to me and follow what I’m suggesting we can fix this. When the stock market crashed Franklin Roosevelt got on television and didn’t just talk about the you know the pictures of greed he’s look this is what happened."

FDR was not President when the market crashed, Hoover was. TVs were not anywhere near being mainstream appliances in 1929. And his first sentence "Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence is demonstrate that he or she knows what their talking about and communicates to people"...what a bad way to start a sentence where you don't know what you're talking about, lol.

I just think if Sarah Palin had said something this stupid the mainstream media would have been all over it. JMO.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Some of these Obama supporters out here...don't even read just go on the attack the moment someone says they don't like what he did

thats untrue, I've made entire threads about my Obama skepticism. Since I took the time to make sensical points, nobody attacked me. Actually, after some discussion the threads were promptly ignored.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I volunteer with the Democrats and I am out there regularly on college campuses in my area encouraging students to come out and vote for him. No I don't like him, but I didn't like John Kerry either but I still spent cold days in October and November knocking on doors for his ass too. So please cut the crap.

Democracy on the march 🙄

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
FDR was not President when the market crashed, Hoover was. TVs were not anywhere near being mainstream appliances in 1929. And his first sentence "Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence is demonstrate that he or she knows what their talking about and communicates to people"...what a bad way to start a sentence where you don't know what you're talking about, lol.

This is a gaffe worthy of argument in a political race?

lol, wow, the world is reduced to high school again. You better know names and dates, the message or the point is irrelevant (we'll tell you what it is) but god damn, you better memorize.

Let me give you an example. I was talking with a prof about L Ron Hubbard and the interview his son did with Penthouse magazine. I tried a name drop, and said something like "He was a practitioner of Huxley-esque black magic and satanism". Now, anyone familiar with Aldous Huxley will know that is retarded, and in fact, I meant to say Crowley-esque magic, in reference to Aleister Crowley.

If we use your logic, I had no idea what I was talking about. If we are rational humans, we realize that my name drop failed because I had confused 2 people.

So, to your point. If we forgive mr Biden for not specifying that the TV wasn't in every home, and for confusing who was president in 1929, the message he is trying to get across, namely that politics are not nearly as transparent and that current administrations doesn't share with the people, still stands...

blah, politics = hate, people just want to argue and nit pick

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
“Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence is demonstrate that he or she knows what their talking about and communicates to people, if you listen to me and follow what I’m suggesting we can fix this. When the stock market crashed Franklin Roosevelt got on television and didn’t just talk about the you know the pictures of greed he’s look this is what happened."

FDR was not President when the market crashed, Hoover was. TVs were not anywhere near being mainstream appliances in 1929. And his first sentence "Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence is demonstrate that he or she knows what their talking about and communicates to people"...what a bad way to start a sentence where you don't know what you're talking about, lol.

I just think if Sarah Palin had said something this stupid the mainstream media would have been all over it. JMO.

Yes, that was dumb, he should have done his historical research beforehand, as Inimalist pointed out, the point of his message was valid.

Now, is that a more or less newsworthy "gaffe" than Sarah Palin saying she did not support the 'bridge to nowhere', when in fact she authorized and spent 25 million dollars on a gravel road that would have lead to that bridge?

Originally posted by inimalist
I tried a name drop, and said something like "He was a practitioner of Huxley-esque black magic and satanism".

HAHAHAHA, YOU ****ING IDIOT. HAHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Wow. I never said the gimmick did address the disaster and I said it was completely a political maneuver. This is why I am so glad I am not as caught up in this election as I was in the past ones. Some of these Obama supporters out here...don't even read just go on the attack the moment someone says they don't like what he did

That might hold water if you'd said anything about Obama. You were talking about McCain and that's what I addressed. You didn't bring up anything that Obama did, only how genuine you thought McCain was being and how lukewarm your support is for Obama. If you don't like any of the candidates you've supported for the last 8 years, then why have you been wasting your time on them? That's part of the problem with the system in America; there ARE other parties out there. In fact, if folks like yourself wasted as much of their time supporting a political party that actually represented them, then there might be a chance for a third or fouth party candidate to win national office.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I just think if Sarah Palin had said something this stupid the mainstream media would have been all over it. JMO.

If the mainstream media wasn't covering it, then why did I first hear about it on the television?

Originally posted by Devil King
If the mainstream media wasn't covering it, then why did I first hear about it on the television?

A little bird told you, because no one is really covering it, just these few:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_el_pr/biden_mistaken_history
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080923/Biden.Mistaken.History/
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/23/biden-slips-suggests-fdr-was-president-when-market-crashed/
http://whttp://news.aol.com/article/in-gaffe-biden-says-fdr-led-when-market/185879ww.transterrestrial.com/archives/2008/09/another_thing_a.html
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/23/biden-on-fdrs-management-of-the-1929-crash/
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbide245855558sep24,0,6109928.story
http://www.topix.com/forum/us/TIKHSU80U9JEIPRDF
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/23/in-gaffe-biden-says-fdr-led-when-market-crashed/
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/23/america/Biden-Mistaken-History.php
http://www.ksdk.com/news/govt_politics/elections/decision2008/story.aspx?storyid=155701&catid=18
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Sep/23/in_gaffe__biden_says_fdr_led_when_market_crashed.html
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10539397?source=rss
http://www.examiner.com/a-1602756~In_gaffe__Biden_says_FDR_led_when_market_crashed.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/politics-18/1222207177293710.xml&storylist=politics
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/23/joe-bidens-gaffes/
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/election08/articles/2008/09/23/20080923biden0923mistakenhistory.html
List goes on and on.

Edit: Had to remove one, it was a repeat.