Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Because he has "infinite" speed and can transmute objects.
Uhh, Orion has transmutation abilities as well. And has even resisted such attacks by the MOTHER BOX.
If you want to talk about transmutation, Orion has created the Genesisis Box, which has jump started the UNIVERSE.
Originally posted by cloud102
Same as Orion. Orion has moved FASTER than the speed of light. Even been shown to have ftl reflexes. Also, he has shown to do pretty much everything Surfer, with more destructive energy.
So what if orion has moved faster than the speed of light? Has he ever done so in battle? Surfer actually has. Not to mention surfer is so far faster than light its not even funny. As i said surfer uses his versatility FAR more than orion does. Not to mention he acually has feats of versatility on a higher level.
Originally posted by cloud102
Uhh, Orion has transmutation abilities as well. And has even resisted such attacks by the MOTHER BOX.If you want to talk about transmutation, Orion has created the Genesisis Box, which has jump started the UNIVERSE.
Scans or context? Did orion actually create the Genesis box with his personal transmutation powers. I find that hard to believe.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Scans or context? Did orion actually create the Genesis box with his personal transmutation powers. I find that hard to believe.
Technology is an extension of the New Gods. Many writers have stated this. Orion simply used that tech to rewrite or jump start the universe from DS taint.
It's not the first time New Gods have created powerful tech. Ever read Seven Soldiers?
Originally posted by Naija boy
So what if orion has moved faster than the speed of light? Has he ever done so in battle? Surfer actually has. Not to mention surfer is so far faster than light its not even funny. As i said surfer uses his versatility FAR more than orion does. Not to mention he acually has feats of versatility on a higher level.
Yes, he has moved at superspeeds in battle. Read Simonson's run. I believe it was shown that he had ftl reflexes there as well. Doesn't matter, it's not like Surfer speed blitz's all the time.
Originally posted by cloud102
Technology is an extension of the New Gods. Many writers have stated this. Orion simply used that tech to rewrite or jump start the universe from DS taint.It's not the first time New Gods have created powerful tech. Ever read Seven Soldiers?
Technology being an "extension of the new gods" or whatever is irrelevant and doesnt answer m question. Im close to a hundred percent sure that Orion didnt simply use his transmutation abilities to create the genesis box from nothing . That is what is relevant here. I dont know why people feel the need to misrepresent feats continuously. Orion might have used the Genesis box to recreate the universe from Darkseids taint or whatever but he was NOT given the genesis box in this scenario and so that fact is IRRELEVANT as well. All im concerned with is Orions personal transmutation abilities together in comparison to surfers. So either bring scans showing Orion trasmutation feats that are superior to surfers (if u really insist that Orion used his own power to create the genesis box then post the scans, it wont be the first time ive shot down misrepresented scans) or just drop it.
Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, he has moved at superspeeds in battle. Read Simonson's run. I believe it was shown that he had ftl reflexes there as well. Doesn't matter, it's not like Surfer speed blitz's all the time.
Jeez, what kind of strawmanning is this? I never claimed that Orion didnt have superspeed or has never used it in battle. I claimed that surfer has superior speed feats both in and out of battle and so speedwise he does have the advantage.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Technology being an "extension of the new gods" or whatever is irrelevant and doesnt answer m question. Im close to a hundred percent sure that Orion didnt simply use his transmutation abilities to create the genesis box from nothing . That is what is relevant here. I dont know why people feel the need to misrepresent feats continuously. Orion might have used the Genesis box to recreate the universe from Darkseids taint or whatever but he was NOT given the genesis box in this scenario and so that fact is IRRELEVANT as well. All im concerned with is Orions personal transmutation abilities together in comparison to surfers. So either bring scans showing Orion trasmutation feats that are superior to surfers (if u really insist that Orion used his own power to create the genesis box then post the scans, it wont be the first time ive shot down misrepresented scans) or just drop it.
It is pretty important, because it was never really shown how Orion created the Genesis Box. On the other hand, Orion has SHOWN to create the Gauntlets and Harness from NOTHING. Thus showing that he can use his tranmutation abilties on the fly. People have asked Morrison and Simonson (on the NG message board) anout this. They stated that the technology NG used is simply an extension of the Gods.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Jeez, what kind of strawmanning is this? I never claimed that Orion didnt have superspeed or has never used it in battle. I claimed that surfer has superior speed feats both in and out of battle and so speedwise he does have the advantage.
You should be talking. You know nothing about these characters, and you still debate against them. What a crock of shit.
And Surfer has NO speed advantage. Seeing as Orion has tech to counter this.
Originally posted by tkitna
Same here.That non cannon comic was one of the very few that was written correctly.
That shit happened years ago. Since then, Orion has also received certain upgrades and his character is more fleshed out. Thanks particularly to Walt. Orion is perhaps the greatest top tier fighter, knowing most techniques across the universe. And we have seen what a simple armbar can do to Surfer. 💃
Originally posted by cloud102
It is pretty important, because it was never really shown how Orion created the Genesis Box. On the other hand, Orion has SHOWN to create the Gauntlets and Harness from NOTHING. Thus showing that he can use his tranmutation abilties on the fly. People have asked Morrison and Simonson (on the NG message board) anout this. They stated that the technology NG used is simply an extension of the Gods.
My God. how can the feat of Orion recreating the universe with the genesis box be pretty important when even u yourself admit that it was NEVER shown how the Genesis box was created? Nothing suggests that orion created the genesis box under his own power. Heck brandnew motherboxes in general arent just instantly created from nothing midbattle so to assume that Orion can do so here is just laughable. Saying that NG technology is simply an extension of the Gods doesnt at all mean that they can simply create brand new motherboxes out of thin air. It simply refers to the closeness between them and the technology they use(i.e they and their motherboxes which are living computers) U are obviously not reading my posts properly before u reply them or even ur own for that matter.
Further get the useless strawman argumentation out of here. My premise was never that Orion couldnt use his transmutation abilities on the fly but that he did not have transmutation feats using his own power superior to surfers with feats such as evolvin planets,synthesizing the odinforce etc. And u have done nothing to prove the contrary and instead have chosen to continuously bring up irrelevant information
Originally posted by Naija boy
My God. how can the feat of Orion recreating the universe with the genesis box be pretty important when even u yourself admit that it was NEVER shown how the Genesis box was created? Nothing suggests that orion created the genesis box under his own power. Heck brandnew motherboxes in general arent just instantly created from nothing midbattle so to assume that Orion can do so here is just laughable. Saying that NG technology is simply an extension of the Gods doesnt at all mean that they can simply create brand new motherboxes out of thin air. It simply refers to the closeness between them and the technology they use(i.e they and their motherboxes which are living computers) U are obviously not reading my posts properly before u reply them or even ur own for that matter.Further get the useless strawman argumentation out of here. My premise was never that Orion couldnt use his transmutation abilities on the fly but that he did not have transmutation feats using his own power superior to surfers with feats such as evolvin planets,synthesizing the odinforce etc. And u have done nothing to prove the contrary and instead have chosen to continuously bring up irrelevant information
It was stated that Orion DID create the Genesisis Box. That is known. Now, I'm NOT saying Orion created it on the fly, just simply that he IS capable of such a device, because people here like to point out that the New Gods aren't capable of transmutation.
And you keep on talking shit. Orion has created MB's from thin air.
BTW, transmutation is hardly an argument on itself. Evolving planets isn't going to help Surfer one bit. Nor transmuting Orion, so get that weal sauce out of here.
Originally posted by cloud102
You should be talking. You know nothing about these characters, and you still debate against them. What a crock of shit.And Surfer has NO speed advantage. Seeing as Orion has tech to counter this.
Ad hominem, instead of providing evidence to support ur side of the argument u start resort to going on useless tirades. I have made no claims concerning Orions abilities. All i have done is ask u to provide evidence that orion is superior to surfer in certain areas. Instead of doing so u have danced round it and misrepresented my side of the argument while still not supporting yours. You also have tried to misrepresent feats claimin that orion created the genesis box with his transmutation abilities and expect us to believe he could do so on the fly when it is obviously not the case. Its quite obvious where the shit is comin from in this debate.
And yes surfer does have the speed advantage. Orions tech being able to detect surfer is beneficial for orion but does not completely nullify the speed advantage.
Regardless surfer wont win this match solely because of speed but because of a combination of his abilities.
Originally posted by cloud102
It was stated that Orion DID create the Genesisis Box. That is known. Now, I'm NOT saying Orion created it on the fly, just simply that he IS capable of such a device, because people here like to point out that the New Gods aren't capable of transmutation.And you keep on talking shit. Orion has created MB's from thin air.
BTW, transmutation is hardly an argument on itself. Evolving planets isn't going to help Surfer one bit. Nor transmuting Orion, so get that weal sauce out of here.
He didnt create it on the fly. We dont know exactl how he created it so it does not count as evidence of his superior transmutation abilities
Please show the scans of Orion creatin brandnew motherboxes out of thin air midbattle or GTFO here with that.
And once again, I didnt say that surfer would win because of transmutation alone but rather thanks to a combination of superior abilities of which transmutation is one of them.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Ad hominem, instead of providing evidence to support ur side of the argument u start resort to going on useless tirades. I have made no claims concerning Orions abilities. All i have done is ask u to provide evidence that orion is superior to surfer in certain areas. Instead of doing so u have danced round it and misrepresented my side of the argument while still not supporting yours. You also have tried to misrepresent feats claimin that orion created the genesis box with his transmutation abilities and expect us to believe he could do so on the fly when it is obviously not the case. Its quite obvious where the shit is comin from in this debate.And yes surfer does have the speed advantage. Orions tech being able to detect surfer is beneficial for orion but does not completely nullify the speed advantage.
Regardless surfer wont win this match solely because of speed but because of a combination of his abilities.
Where is your evidence? Surfer is faster? Where? Surfer is more versatile? Where? We've been debating Orion for awhile now, so I don't feel like posting scans, nor am I capable of. I don't have access to a scanner.