Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the hell is this shit?!Has western propaganda machine started working already! Oh those big bad genocidal Russians!! Sheesh!
Georgia (Gruzia) Attacked South Ossetia (which is by the way rightfuly Russian and has been so until communist revlution. Stalin completed the job by giving South Ossetia to Georgia, since he himself was Georgian) not Russia attacked Georgia.
Georgia wanted into NATO so bad because it had planned to attack South Ossetia for a long while and Saakashvili thought he can hide behind his NATO masters and 'scare' Russia.
This is a stuid move by Saakashvili (who by the way is bordering dictator there, up NATO's ass so much only his shoe laces are visible)NATO summit in Bucharest in March, Germany and France denied stubbornly to accept Georgia as a NATO member. USA was pressuring hard, but simply they denied, because they KNEW what Georgia has been planning for ages.
It is audacity to even suggest that in this whole mess Russia is being ''agressive'' since Georgians took the privilage to attack South Ossetia, destroy part of it and kill civilians.
I agree, its interesting how quickly the Western Media has retracted to "The Great Enemy" propaganda of the Cold War.
I'll be honest, I didn't know very much (ie, nothing at all) about this situation until the war broke out. However, I DO know that Russia has killed about 2,000 civilians in the past few days. What, exactly, is going on? Are the Russians invading Georgian territory, or is Georgia simply claiming the city as their own, and Russia is disputing the claim? How long has the dispute waged before the recent military intervention?
And how are the 2,000 civilian deaths justified? It seems to me to be almost intended.
most of the deaths have been reported in civilian complexes far from the border in the middle of georgia, and explicity bombing civilian infrastructure has been seen on televesion, on air the georgian president publically stated that he was ready for unconditional ceasefire on his part. this is more like a genocide to keep the former states under russia's influence and tell em whose boss. america, the great self proclaimed protector of liberty yet again wont take any action worthy of mentioning as it isnt convenient to americans to go up against russia and renew the cold war.
Allow me to get this right:
Georgia attacks South Ossetia, which is a part of it because they want Independence? Russia then steps in to protect the South Ossetia while they themselves have been having serious problem in Chechnya... If South Ossetia is a part of Georgia and Russia steps in then I find it a bit double morale from the Russian part. But again only if South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, but then you can also say that it is Russia that chooses to escalate the conflict but....
No they isn't, hence they asked for ceasefire.
Originally posted by inimalist
indeed, they tend to do that, I can understand your frustration, I get like that whenever I read stuff about the middle eastYou should watch Al Jazeera 😉
and not to argue, but couldn't the same be said of any Russian news agency?
No. Russian agencies have no interest in shit smearing other countries, like US does.
US s unfortunately involved in number of conflicts around the world, and any news which would undermine their liberator status is changed or simly ignored.
Originally posted by inimalist
hey Lil:I'm just reading up on some of this stuff. It seems like South Ossetia has been fighting for independence ever since Georgia broke off from the USSR, and according to the ever trustworthy Wiki, it goes back even to the early 20s.
What do you think the Russian angle is here? are they really supporting an independence movement or are they looking to consolidate power? It seems like such a small victory for them to win if all they want is power over the city, as they pretty much dominate the region anyways, but on the other hand, and this could be my western bias, Russia doesn't remind me of a pro-democratic independence supporting group, I mean, didn't they oppose the sovereignty of Kosovo?
Is this like the American funding of groups during the Red scare do you think, where they are willing to get into bed with anyone who hates the Americans like the Americans supported anti-democratic movements in latin America?
North Ossetia is in Russia, and South Ossetia in Georgia. South Ossetia never truly belonged to Georgia, but was given to Geogria after communist revolution.
South Ossetia wants to join up with mother Russia, rather than have its independence. They use Russian money and Russian passports as well. They consider themsleves Russian
(Just like Ukrainians are actually Russians, and speak the same language, but whatever...not going to go into that discussion)
Stalin was of course sympathetic to Georgians, he himself coming from the region, and chunk of Ossetia was given to Georgia (now known as South Ossetia).
I think Russians have a right view on this. Georgia invaded South Ossetia which they KNEW would provoke Russia.
What Georgians didn't count on is that Russia would respond, since West has been slapping Russia around the face way too many times since the end of Cold War, and particulary with inviting former USSR members into NATO.
That is my view. Others may disagree, however I just don't think its fair to create an enemy of Russia without acknowledging the full story and history.
I read some UK news as well - same story - Russia 'pounds' Georgia and kills 12346532 billion poeple.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Allow me to get this right:Georgia attacks South Ossetia, which is a part of it because they want Independence? Russia then steps in to protect the South Ossetia while they themselves have been having serious problem in Chechnya... If South Ossetia is a part of Georgia and Russia steps in then I find it a bit double morale from the Russian part. But again only if South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, but then you can also say that it is Russia that chooses to escalate the conflict but....
Russia is protecting its citizens who are located in Georgia.
America has no reason to interfere- not that they really have the mandate too. (Who were they protecting when they invaded Iraq?)
The media never does anything but critizse the Russian Federation- no matter what they do.
Personally, I'd much rather have Putin than Brown.
Georgia broke a ceasefire with South Ossetia but did not expect the Russian retaliation- thus it is Georgia's fault.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Russia is protecting its citizens who are located in Georgia.America has no reason to interfere- not that they really have the mandate too. (Who were they protecting when they invaded Iraq?)
The media never does anything but critizse the Russian Federation- no matter what they do.
Personally, I'd much rather have Putin than Brown.
Georgia broke a ceasefire with South Ossetia but did not expect the Russian retaliation- thus it is Georgia's fault.
However, the attacking of cities like Gori by Russian forces seems to show a fairly aggressive plan of action by the bear.