Liu Kang vs. Gouki

Originally posted by SmashBro
Because he had time to say all that and they showed the picture of the island before it disappeared. If it exploded immediately after he punched the ground, they wouldn't have showed all of that.

All in all, your point here is moot.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Is that all you can say?

Okay, actually I'll save you the trouble; it means Gouki can easily withstand water pressure at 1000 m, which is about 100 atm = 1470 psi.

Yeah, he's durable as hell. There's DSZ's point.

Originally posted by DarkC
Because of multiple dialogue being used in stills, as DSZ said, you cannot accurately use that as a way to judge time. They're stills, as he mentioned; pictures with limited animation. Something like his 3rd Strike ending is actually a movie, and CAN be used; there's a big difference.

All in all, your point here is moot.

What we see in the stills is light and smoke coming out from the island. I don't think it would be accurate to say that that occured for just one second or something right he punched the ground, especially since they had time to say something afterwards.

Originally posted by DarkC
Do as he says.

Okay, actually I'll save you the trouble; it means Gouki can easily withstand water pressure at 1000 m, which is about 100 atm = [b]1470 psi.

Yeah, he's durable as hell. There's DSZ's point. [/B]

That still doesn't mean can take those kind of attacks.

Originally posted by SmashBro
What we see in the stills is light and smoke coming out from the island. I don't think it would accurate to say that that occured for just one second or something right he punched the ground.

Originally posted by SmashBro
That still doesn't mean can take those kind of attacks.

According to the televised show "Human Weapon" on the History Channel, a strong kick from a trained fighter carries about a hundred pounds of instantaneous force, and that's over a significantly larger area than a square inch.

The kind of water pressure per sq. inch that Gouki is taking technically is even more than that of a bullet fired from a 9mm.

Originally posted by DarkC
Yes, I remember the YouTube vid that Sado linked; you see a loop of light and smoke coming out. That doesn't really indicate much at all. This is why references like these are so faulty for speed feats.

Actually, it indicates alot. That and combine with the fact that they said a few things in between the time of the punch and the island disappearing, shows that it didn't happen immediately.

Originally posted by DarkC
Yes, he easily can.

According to the televised show "Human Weapon" on the History Channel, a strong kick from a trained fighter carries about a hundred pounds of instantaneous force, and that's over a significantly larger area than a square inch.

The kind of water pressure per sq. inch that Gouki is taking technically is even more than that of a bullet fired from a 9mm.

That's still doesn't prove that he can withstand hits strong enough to knock your head off or make you explode.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Actually, it indicates alot. That and combine with the fact that they said a few things in between the time of the punch and the island disappearing, shows that it didn't happen immediately.

Like I said, it's far too unclear to make any assumptions.

Originally posted by SmashBro
That's still doesn't prove that he can withstand hits strong enough to knock your head off or make you explode.

It's like saying that the Kongokokuretsu Zan was just a normal punch.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, but it doesn't indicate that it happened at a crawl-slow pace either.

Like I said, it's far too unclear to make any assumptions.

I already know that, I'm just saying is that it did at least take a while. I'm not saying how long it took as there's no indication but it sure wasn't an instant or something after he punched the ground. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by DarkC
Liu Kang's a normal fighter outside of his special moves. Those moves that you mentioned as far as I know are fatalities and in execution are relatively slow; it isn't as though a normal punch or kick would do that to anyone, let alone Gouki.

It's like saying that the Kongokokuretsu Zan was just a normal punch.

I already know they're not normal attacks, as he powers his arms up before executing the attacks. Heck, Gouki's splitting a rock or kicking the ship in-half aren't normal attacks either. All I'm saying is that they both got death attacks that could kill each other. The ONLY reason I'm giving this to Gouki is because he has more.

Originally posted by SmashBro
I already know that, I'm just saying is that it did at least take a while. I'm not saying how long it took as there's no indication but it sure wasn't an instant or something after he punched the ground. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by SmashBro
I already know they're not normal attacks, as he powers his arms up before executing the attacks. Heck, Gouki's splitting a rock or kicking the ship in-half aren't normal attacks either. All I'm saying is that they both got death attacks that could kill each other. The ONLY reason I'm giving this to Gouki is because he has more.

Have to think though, Kang would never be able to pull his super move off, even an old man could probably dodge it.

Maybe that's why its his execution move...

Well even though he doesn't kill his opponent immediately, I wouldn't put his super move in the slow category.

Think about it, he has to have a clear shot and also has to charge it up.

He'd probably still catch him.

Originally posted by SmashBro
He'd probably still catch him.

Ya know, I've always wondered about the speed of "projectiles" in Street Fighter, so here's my take on it...

In the Street Fighter Canon Guide, Ryu is stated to dodge bullets with ease...

However some may say, how is that of any irrelevance, however when you look at the entire picture. "If" Ryu can dodge bullets with ease...then just simply how fast are projectiles like Hadouken's, Tiger Shots, Psycho Shots in comparison to bullets?

Then another clue came into notion with Capcom's unveiling of the Street Fighter IV Anime Trailer with Gouki launching his projectiles that where so fast, you couldn't even see the tail of the projectile, but just simply the impact of it hitting the ground.

The speed of Gouki's aerial projectile where definitely without a doubt flying faster then the eye could see or react to it. Gouki's aerial special was even easily dodged by Ryu, although it was multiple fireballs traveling at phenomenal speeds.

So which leaves me to the notion, that if Ryu can dodge bullets, then projectiles in the Street Fighter world such as the Hadouken would need to be traveling at around bullet time speed, or possibly faster to be effective. Because if it's slower then bullet time speed, then someone like Ryu should never get hit by projectiles ever if that was the case.

However, I don't think all projectiles traveled at this speed, for instance..Dan's projectile I highly doubt was this fast, and although Sakura may have manipulated her chi during the Alpha Series on par with Ken, I don't believe her speed of travel was as great or on par with Ryu, Ken's and especially Gouki's. Guile's Sonic Boom if I remember is stated to be moving at the sonic speeds, which makes sense with it's name, as for Sagat's Tiger Shots...they easily contend with Ryu's Hadouken, so I would assume they are on equal footing.

So to me, someone like Gouki launching out projectiles at this speed would defeat Liu Kang easily. In fact, Liu Kang would not stand a chance against many of the strong much less the super elites of the Street Fighter World.

Character classes from Ken, and upward would foot hole stomp Liu Kang easily. In fact, other characters like Chunli and Guile would topple over him as well, however someone on Gouki's lvl would absolutely destroy Liu Kang with ease.

I mean...isn't Liu Kang just around a normal human being lvl abilities with super specials? So how would he be able to level up with someone like Gouki who has clearly shown he is well beyond that of human capabilities by multiple levels.

Originally posted by JustFrame
So to me, someone like Gouki launching out projectiles at this speed would defeat Liu Kang easily. In fact, Liu Kang would not stand a chance against many of the strong much less the super elites of the Street Fighter World.

Yes he would. With the death moves he's got, he can take on almost anybody in SF.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Character classes from Ken, and upward would foot hole stomp Liu Kang easily. In fact, other characters like Chunli and Guile would topple over him as well, however someone on Gouki's lvl would absolutely destroy Liu Kang with ease.

Oh no, he'd topple Ken, Chun-Li, and Guile. No question there.

Originally posted by JustFrame
I mean...isn't Liu Kang just around a normal human being lvl abilities with super specials? So how would he be able to level up with someone like Gouki who has clearly shown he is well beyond that of human capabilities by multiple levels.

They're definitely not "normal human" level, especially not in the strength department. In fact, I wouldn't put ANYBODY in MK at regular human level.

Also, despite what I hear about Ryu dodging, he does infact get tagged by moves at regular speed, looking at the recent SFIV anime.

Originally posted by DarkC
I severely doubt it, anything longer than 2 seconds ANYONE can dodge. He can just Ashura right through it.

He can but I wouldn't judge speed of the attack on how it's charged. I mean, it can leave him open but shoot, almost anybody leaves themselves open upon charging up but lets not get into that.

Originally posted by P-Geyser
I knew you would quote me somehow.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Yes he would. With the death moves he's got, he can take on almost anybody in SF.

What pushes him into the same lvl as Gouki? Fatalities??? Please man, that's an absolute joke, most of the Street Fighter characters can downright kill you with a single blow (most simply do not utilize a killing intent). Balrog is not even considered one of the super elites, and yet he can destroy an elephant with a basic blow.

Gouki is more outrageous and on a completely different level then Liu Kang, Gouki was able to put the stomp on a Demi-God in the SFIII World. In fact, what will Liu do up against any of the strongest with the Street Fighter World? Ingrid getting punched by opponents in the Street World is like being tickled by her, not to mention she's seen skipping across the Clouds, even Rose couldn't see her future, and Ingrid can travel through time as well.

Are you really thinking that Liu Kang would be able to contend with any of these opponents. Let's not forget guys like Ryu, Sagat, Gen, etc etc, whom have all shown to be incredibly powerful and only second under these characters.

You also forget, guys like Liu Kang have basically reached their fullest potential. While alot of characters like Gouki, Ryu, Sagat, etc, have yet to fully reach their potential.

This is not a fair match up, plain and simple.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Oh no, he'd topple Ken, Chun-Li, and Guile. No question there.

Absolutely disagree on Ken, there is no way Liu Kang would even remotely put a hand on Ken. Ken's abilities would nearly be on par with that of Ryu's, and it's no question Ryu>>>>Liu Kang. Guile is absolutely no slouch either, having the Sonic Boom being one of the fastest projectiles in the SF world, is no slouch, and he's ranked only below Ken.

Chunli now is the most likely contender to have completely went through the entire Street Fighter II tournament and winning it all as concluded within what we saw with the second anime trailer for SF:IV.

Originally posted by SmashBro
They're definitely not "normal human" level, especially not in the strength department. In fact, I wouldn't put ANYBODY in MK at regular human level.

Maybe, I should of said it differently, characters like Liu Kang's abilities are not within the super human form like that of the strongest within the Street Fighter World, even the non-super elites of SF would stomp Liu Kang.

Rose is ranked lower then Ryu, yet her abilities of Soul Power is stated to be infinite, and allowing her to channeling mental powers into pure psychical attacks/energy. She has also shown the abilities to read into another persons soul.

Ryu has been shown training with a gigantic boulder above him weighing well into the multiple tons in weight.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Also, despite what I hear about Ryu dodging, he does infact get tagged by moves at regular speed, looking at the recent SFIV anime.

It would be safe to assume that Street Fighter characters would be fighting at a much faster then pace than that of a normal human being. I believe that Capcom doesn't make it as fast on purpose so that people can actually see the action and not go "What just happened?!".

If you can dodge bullets, but not being capable to dodge regular speed strikes, that would make absolutely no sense. Because if you put the two and two together, Ryu may not be running at insane super sonic speeds or whatever, however his punches and kicks would be extremely fast on any given lvl, and it would need a punch and kick of faster proportion to a bullet in order for it to hit Ryu.

Capcom may not have "said" this, however if you put dodging bullets into the picture, it would make absolute sense, for Ryu to be capable of dodging punches if they where any slower. So I would believe that fights involving psychical attacks are alot faster then shown in the video.

Originally posted by JustFrame
What pushes him into the same lvl as Gouki? Fatalities??? Please man, that's an absolute joke, most of the Street Fighter characters can downright kill you with a single blow (most simply do not utilize a killing intent). Balrog is not even considered one of the super elites, and yet he can destroy an elephant with a basic blow.

And Johnny Cage can destroy a tank/robot looking guy with just a fireball and he's considered a joke. Also, yeah, the fatalities put him on par with Gouki in terms of killing people. Also, Balrog didn't destroy an elephant with a "basic blow". There's no telling how he did that.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Gouki is more outrageous and on a completely different level then Liu Kang, Gouki was able to put the stomp on a Demi-God in the SFIII World. In fact, what will Liu do up against any of the strongest with the Street Fighter World? Ingrid getting punched by opponents in the Street World is like being tickled by her, not to mention she's seen skipping across the Clouds, even Rose couldn't see her future, and Ingrid can travel through time as well.

Yet in MK, you got characters going through dimensions, divouring souls, freezing time, etc. Heck, if gods end up fighting on the Earth, they could end up destroying it.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Are you really thinking that Liu Kang would be able to contend with any of these opponents. Let's not forget guys like Ryu, Sagat, Gen, etc etc, whom have all shown to be incredibly powerful and only second under these characters.

And Liu Kang has beaten the likes of Goro, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, and Shinnok. Also, none of the characters you mentioned have been shown to do anything physically on par with Liu Kang's fatalities.

Originally posted by JustFrame
You also forget, guys like Liu Kang have basically reached their fullest potential. While alot of characters like Gouki, Ryu, Sagat, etc, have yet to fully reach their potential.

And you're basing this all on what?

Originally posted by JustFrame
Absolutely disagree on Ken, there is no way Liu Kang would even remotely put a hand on Ken. Ken's abilities would nearly be on par with that of Ryu's, and it's no question Ryu>>>>Liu Kang. Guile is absolutely no slouch either, having the Sonic Boom being one of the fastest projectiles in the SF world, is no slouch, and he's ranked only below Ken.

I really don't see how all of this is suppose prove that they can beat Liu Kang, when they've hardly had any impressive victories like him.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Chunli now is the most likely contender to have completely went through the entire Street Fighter II tournament and winning it all as concluded within what we saw with the second anime trailer for SF:IV.

And? Liu Kang has won two MK tournaments.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Maybe, I should of said it differently, characters like Liu Kang's abilities are not within the super human form like that of the strongest within the Street Fighter World, even the non-super elites of SF would stomp Liu Kang.

Are you trying to say normal humans do the things characters in MK can do? And those non-super elites have yet to do anything impressive enough to beat Liu Kang.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Rose is ranked lower then Ryu, yet her abilities of Soul Power is stated to be infinite, and allowing her to channeling mental powers into pure psychical attacks/energy. She has also shown the abilities to read into another persons soul.

And both Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn can devour souls and Shang Tsung can walk through realms. So?

Originally posted by JustFrame
Ryu has been shown training with a gigantic boulder above him weighing well into the multiple tons in weight.

And Liu Kang has be shown knocking people's head off and making them explode with a force of punch.

Originally posted by JustFrame
It would be safe to assume that Street Fighter characters would be fighting at a much faster then pace than that of a normal human being. I believe that Capcom doesn't make it as fast on purpose so that people can actually see the action and not go "What just happened?!"

Like you said, that's your assumption, even though I disagee with it.

Originally posted by JustFrame
If you can dodge bullets, but not being capable to dodge regular speed strikes, that would make absolutely no sense. Because if you put the two and two together, Ryu may not be running at insane super sonic speeds or whatever, however his punches and kicks would be extremely fast on any given lvl, and it would need a punch and kick of faster proportion to a bullet in order for it to hit Ryu.

Dodging bullets doesn't mean he can punch or kick as fast as them. And seeing that none of the hits were as fast as bullets, I don't see how every attack has to be that fast just to hit him.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Capcom may not have "said" this, however if you put dodging bullets into the picture, it would make absolute sense, for Ryu to be capable of dodging punches if they where any slower. So I would believe that fights involving psychical attacks are alot faster then shown in the video.

Wait a minute, Capcom hadn't said this so why the heck do people keep bringing this up?

Originally posted by SmashBro
And Johnny Cage can destroy a tank/robot looking guy with just a fireball and he's considered a joke. Also, yeah, the fatalities put him on par with Gouki in terms of killing people. Also, Balrog didn't destroy an elephant with a "basic blow". There's no telling how he did that.

Who is this tank robot looking guy btw...I would like to have a name if possible. You want to know a character who's not even within the super elites???

Zangief...the dude survived being sucked into a Cyclone while he landed on his head...that's how he learned to idea of the Spinning Pile Driver. If someone like Zangief can survive a cyclone...how about the other more elite characters...you ask me. Surviving a Cyclone>>>>Destroying a robot...btw...SF characters if they are capable of lifting multi ton boulders, telekenesis, sinking islands...oh yes, they would easily dismantle robots with ease.

Lastly, Balrog did kill an elephant with a single punch, read it and try to refute please, you cannot argue what is canon.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Yet in MK, you got characters going through dimensions, divouring souls, freezing time, etc. Heck, if gods end up fighting on the Earth, they could end up destroying it.

Has any of them put them on league or in par with the most powerful in Street Fighter? Warping through dimensions mean absolutely nothing on a power level of fighting capabilities. Devouring Souls is only to certain characters, and doesn't someone like Shang Tsung need to defeat his opponent before he's able to do so anyhow? In the Alpha Movie, Rose was capable of halting time completely to speak with Ryu directly, and the reason I state this is because Capcom has stated the abilities shown in there would be REAL in the world of the actual Street Fighter Realm.

Gods??? Gill IS A GOD, Ingrid is a Goddess...what more do you seriously need? Just think here for a second,

Originally posted by SmashBro
And Liu Kang has beaten the likes of Goro, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, and Shinnok. Also, none of the characters you mentioned have been shown to do anything physically on par with Liu Kang's fatalities.

Has anyone of them sunk an entire island with his fist while wounded from a fight? Has anyone of them cracked open an entire mountain with their fist while training? Has anyone of them walked in crushing deep ocean waters and taken out a carrier ship? Do any of them launch projectiles at speeds that would rival those of Gouki's?

Btw, that's just Gouki we are talking about...we still got Gill, Ingrid, and Oro, although we do not fully know Oro's feats yet, he is considered on par with Gouki and the likes, the guy defeated Ryu with one arm, he can lift objects with telekinesis, and has not been seen yet utilizing both of his arms in full combat, which would be his absolute full potential. Not to mention, with one arm he magically locked away, he was still able to lift a huge boulder with one finger.

For crying out loud, Gouki split a mountain in four in his non full power mode...imagine Gouki utilizing his full strength capabilites...so seroiusly...can Liu do anything like this? Oh wait...in his entire canon storyline he does not even come close to this kind of feat.

Liu Kang's fatalities are pointless, because #1, Liu Kang himself does not like to kill, and secondly to morth into his "dragon" as to how much time is needed, needs to be answered. However, this fatality is completely meaningless, because one it does not give Liu any "distictive" advantage, and it also does not give Liu greater power, and also makes him a larger target.

Fatalities, are completely irrelevant and give nothing to the advantage of Liu, whom against Gouki, would be easily able to land a Shungokusatsu on Liu...and Liu has no ability to defend against it.

Originally posted by SmashBro
And you're basing this all on what?

Look at his achievements all to the time of his death by a kill from Tseng Tsung...(and btw...you would never be able to catch Gouki off guard that pathetically either.)

He has done basically everything a "chosen one" has done, however at his absolute peak level, post-Dead Liu, are any of his feats on par with that of Gouki? Please, write in full detail of how he is able to contend with Gouki?

By shooting slower projectiles then Gouki? By trying to land a flying kick on Gouki? Or wait the Bicycle kick right???? You've got to be joking me, Gouki's Gou Shoryuken is greater then ALL of Liu's 3 signature specials rolled into one.

Gouki has more then double the special techniques that Liu has, and is capable of doing.

Originally posted by SmashBro
I really don't see how all of this is suppose prove that they can beat Liu Kang, when they've hardly had any impressive victories like him.

That's because Street Fighter characters are more crazy over the top then the overall cast of Mortal Kombat. People are dodging bullets, sinking islands, reviving themselves, hopping over clouds, surviving cyclones, killing elephants with one blow. Heck, even Gouken was seen shifting the weight of an entire waterfall with a punch that didn't even seem to exert alot of strength if any at all.

Originally posted by SmashBro
And? Liu Kang has won two MK tournaments.

Because Liu Kang is practically at the cream of the crop in the Mortal Kombat world. The fact that not even the strongest in the Street Fighter wins the tournaments, because either they don't care, or it is not their intentions or goals.

"If" you magically put Liu Kang in the Street Fighter, he would be placed at the most in the 3rd Bracket...and that's me being absolutely nice, however more then likely, he's in the 4th bracket with the likes of Guile and Chunli.

For he's not as beastly as the characters in the 3rd Bracket which include the likes of Rose, Ken, Charlie (Charlie can whip out sonic booms, traveling at sonic speeds with his knee, elbow, one arm, and feet..way, way more beastly then even Guile), and Gen.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Are you trying to say normal humans do the things characters in MK can do? And those non-super elites have yet to do anything impressive enough to beat Liu Kang.

Clearly you lack reading comprehensions, never did I say "all" MK characters, I stated specifically Liu Kang himself. Because quite frankly, his abilities as I've read even with the confines of MK are nowhere even remotely touching, or kissing what Gouki has done single handedly.

You don't see Liu training in deep ocean waters...you don't see Liu spliting a mountain into four pieces just from training do you? That's why I stated Liu's abilities being surreal (Meaning obviously impossible to do in reality), but more closer to the confines of reality, then that of what is achieved with Gouki.

Originally posted by SmashBro
And both Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn can devour souls and Shang Tsung can walk through realms. So?

Lol, I find it hilarious that you are trying to compare some of the strongest MK antagonist to a character within the Street Fighter World who is clearly not even ranked amongst the strongest.

Rose is the light half of Bison period, which makes her incredibly powerful, Rose can look into the future although, not perfectly, she can predict what will occur, as she did with M. Bison during the Alpha Series. She was able to even contend with Bison for a time, and at a certain point, was able to beat him.

Again, doesn't Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn "need" souls to be more powerful...yet someone like Rose has an infinite source of energy to tap into.

Rose>>>>Both of them.

Originally posted by SmashBro
And Liu Kang has be shown knocking people's head off and making them explode with a force of punch.

Lol...are you trying to put "game mechanics" as a ploy to prove your point now? Lol...I don't ever recall within the actual Liu Kang storyline of him punching people so hard their heads pop off, lolz. Please, do confirm this from a canonical storyline point of view.

Btw, Ryu doesn't outright smack people's heads off, because fighting simple street thugs, he would only disable them, meaning just a few basic kicks and punches to knock them out. However his simple attacks send bodies spiraling in spins. Lastly Ryu doesn't kill random people in fights...oh wait...Liu doesn't do that either...so where is the head chopping coming from?

Originally posted by SmashBro
Like you said, that's your assumption, even though I disagee with it.

It holds more validation then anything stated so far (Moreso then your Liu Kang blowing heads off comments), if you might remember, Tiamit's guide is slightly old now. Lastly, it makes absolute and perfect sense, that punches would be much faster then that of normal fighting, considering "no normal" punch can sink islands, no normal speed punch can take out an elephant.

Originally posted by SmashBro
Dodging bullets doesn't mean he can punch or kick as fast as them. And seeing that none of the hits were as fast as bullets, I don't see how every attack has to be that fast just to hit him.

Wait a minute, Capcom hadn't said this so why the heck do people keep bringing this up?

Because you aren't thinking logically, first and foremost, if Ryu is capable of moving fast enough to avoid bullets. How could he not dodge an attack of "normal human attacking" speed?

So if we "went" by logic then, Ryu can dodge bullets...but he can get hit by normal speed attacks...🙄...LOL...that's the most ludicrious comment I've seen yet.

Capcom doesn't need to baby spoon feed us everything (Look at Tekken, the storyline was broken down with mainly the games to tell the story, there has been almost ZERO interview confirmations from Namco about anything except what is shown in games, and people have built reasonable explanations for things through that alone).

To conclude if Ryu can dodge bullets, then it would make absolute and perfect sense that punches and kicks would need to be of incredible speed in order to land on Ryu, or force him to block, am I right?

Well, if you put the two and two together, then yes, it makes sense. Now if I went off and told you that Ryu can punch at these speeds, yet he has absolutely no validation to back him up on this, then yes, I am wrong. However, it makes sense that if you can dodge bullets, punches and kicks would need to be incredibly fast in order to hit you.

Btw, Gouki>>>>Liu Kang.

Faster, Stronger, More Durable, More Experience (If Ryu has fought over 10,000+ single matches, then Gouki's single fight numbers would overshadow that of Ryu's), vastly superior display of feats, far greater, more powerful and deadly specials, he can Ashura Warp to top it off, can jump from the ground up to ridiculous heights, etc, etc.

Gouki in a footstomp on Liu Kang, Ashura Warp Shungokusatsu ='s GGPO, Liu Kang didn't even know what happened. However, Gouki wouldn't even need to go that far.

Originally posted by JustFrame
It holds more validation then anything stated so far (Moreso then your Liu Kang blowing heads off comments), if you might remember, Tiamit's guide is slightly old now. Lastly, it makes absolute and perfect sense, that punches would be much faster then that of normal fighting, considering "no normal" punch can sink islands, no normal speed punch can take out an elephant.

Seeing that they're shown in the anime (and thus less restriced) and not in the game, I still disagree. Besides, it's not like we've never seen high speed fights in animes before. And it's not more valid than what I said about Liu Kang's fatality, since we see him actually doing it.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Because you aren't thinking logically, first and foremost, if Ryu is capable of moving fast enough to avoid bullets. How could he [B]not dodge an attack of "normal human attacking" speed?[/B]

Well we got the anime to show us that he's fighting at normal speeds. It sure wasn't a high speed fight.

Originally posted by JustFrame
So if we "went" by logic then, Ryu can dodge bullets...but he can get hit by normal speed attacks...🙄...LOL...that's the most ludicrious comment I've seen yet.

Why? You can't handle what Capcom themselves have shown?

Originally posted by JustFrame
Capcom doesn't need to baby spoon feed us everything (Look at Tekken, the storyline was broken down with mainly the games to tell the story, there has been almost ZERO interview confirmations from Namco about anything except what is shown in games, and people have built reasonable explanations for things through that alone).

And they base these explanations from the game itself, not pure speculation.

Originally posted by JustFrame
To conclude if Ryu can dodge bullets, then it would make absolute and perfect sense that punches and kicks would need to be of incredible speed in order to land on Ryu, or force him to block, am I right?

Well, if you put the two and two together, then yes, it makes sense. Now if I went off and told you that Ryu can punch at these speeds, yet he has absolutely no validation to back him up on this, then yes, I am wrong. [B]However, it makes sense that if you can dodge bullets, punches and kicks would need to be incredibly fast in order to hit you.

Yeah, it would make sense if he could dodge bullets but you as well as anybody who's familiar with SF knows that Capcom has left many unanswered questions about SF. This is no different. We see him fighting at normal speeds in SFIV and that's just what we have to deal with. Also, you just said that Capcom never stated that Ryu can dodge bullets in the first place so actually, it would make sense if he DID get hit a normal moving attacks.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Btw, Gouki>>>>Liu Kang.

I think just one would be enough.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Faster, Stronger, More Durable, More Experience (If Ryu has fought over 10,000+ single matches, then Gouki's single fight numbers would overshadow that of Ryu's), vastly superior display of feats, far greater, more powerful and deadly specials, he can Ashura Warp to top it off, can jump from the ground up to ridiculous heights, etc, etc.

Liu Kang has beaten opponents were more experience than both of them and also, Liu Kang has a mastery of six styles. Also, seeing that Gouki was fighting at the same speed as Ryu, I don't think speed would be much help here, unless you're referring to his abilities. In addition, Liu Kang's fireball is either equally or more dangerous than Gouki's, seeing that it blow people up.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Gouki in a footstomp on Liu Kang, Ashura Warp Shungokusatsu ='s GGPO, Liu Kang didn't even know what happened. However, Gouki wouldn't even need to go that far.

Oh yes he would. If Liu Kang decides to go for the kill, then Gouki would have to go that far, otherwise, he's dead.