Captain America v Deathstroke

Originally posted by Uriel005
I have to go with Cap on this one and reading through the posts which, by the way, took a great deal of time generally consists of namorsubby calling for more evidence and completely discounting anything posted in Caps favor. I have seen in various other threads that he consistently high ends slade while discounting Caps abilities. Now I am not saying that Slade is by any means a weakling but his history is a lot shorter and in that time the consistency of high end feats just isn't there. Also MU and DCU vary greatly in what their characters have a tendency to face i.e. human like characters in DC tend to face characters with a durability that they can defeat or have weaknesses to be exploited by a larger number of "thinker" heroes and villains. MU tends to go for the bigger flashier fight style where human level characters will take blows from and return blows to apocalyptic beings capable of annihilating entire planets with relative ease. However that is not to say that DC doesn't have a large number of immensely powerful heroes and villains I just mean to say that it tends to do a better job of keeping the characters within a range of strength. I mean I don't see batman taking Lobo on in a straight fist fight and yet someone like mystique in MU will break Colossus's face in.

Originally posted by jinzin
Cap's armor can turn the piercing power of a bite (strongest muscles on a body) from Fenris Wolf... dunno what Deathstrokes supposed to do with that... 😉

Wasn't that Ulik?

Originally posted by namorsubby
Batman wasn't using all his body weight. And this is exactly what I mean. No matter what comparable feat one side of an argument in a cap/bat comparison presents, the other will always try and nitpick to make it seem less impressive. Thing is, Cap knocked down a steel door, and Batman did the same.All "colorful" intepretation aside, that's pretty much the same feat.

Slade has tagged the flash many, many times. And How far was the shooters? what? LOL, and I really hope you're not talking about the feat where he supposedly outruns a bullet, because I've scene the scan, and it made me laugh because coming up with that conclusion by looking at the scan is just wishful interpretion.

exactly, so it's easier for cap with his armor, but Wayne still does it.

The feats a handful of you were presenting.

So you're saying it's a forum rule that strength can't be determined/argued by a punching feat? Only lifting feats? Seriously though, you people act like a punching feat holds no barring on stregth, when it obviously does.Either way, it was pointless to ever mention that feat of yours.

no, it makes it exactly what he's down thorughout his career. He didn't draw boold from just diana, but donna as well, but that means nothing because it was mentioned in the fight that diana could shrugg off his best blows. Just because someone can bust you lip doesn't mean they're strong enough to come close to putting you down.

"Batman did the same"... riiight... only one door looked like a toilet paper and the other one didn't even have a visible dent.

What...? I asked you a simple question. The shooter had to be pretty far away if Batman dodged the bullet by hearing it... otherwise it's PIS.

It's easier for Steve because of his durability. Durability that Batman simply lacks.

The feats I was representing...? It was stated on panel he sees faster than normal humans. You wanted some proof that he's a meta and when you get it, you dismiss it? What a surprise. Too bad Marvel's been consistent with Rogers' bullet feats.

Sure it can... if the character has only few strength feats and it's not extreme PIS. He shouldn't be able to do that and you know it. He'd sooner hurt his hand.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wasn't that Ulik?

"Batman did the same"... riiight... only one door looked like a toilet paper and the other one didn't even have a visible dent.

What...? I asked you a simple question. The shooter had to be pretty far away if Batman dodged the bullet by hearing it... otherwise it's PIS.

It's easier for Steve because of his durability. Durability that Batman simply lacks.

The feats I was representing...? It was stated on panel he sees faster than normal humans. You wanted some proof that he's a meta and when you get it, you dismiss it? What a surprise. Too bad Marvel's been consistent with Rogers' bullet feats.

Sure it can... if the character has only few strength feats and it's not extreme PIS. He shouldn't be able to do that and you know it. He'd sooner hurt his hand.

yes he did do the same thing, only he didn't have to use his entire body to do it, which might explain why the door didn't have further damage.lol

It was a sniper, and he was close enough that bats was able to immediately respnd by tossing a batarang to his position on a roof.

lol, and this has been proven by feats.......yeah right.

lol, peak humans time bullets, trace bullets, dodge thousands of bullets, all the time. But if you wanna put cap on a pedastal as the best bullet timer, go ahead. I understand, they all do it, it justs they don't do it liek cap.lol

He doesn't have many strength feats and it's not PIS.he's done it to two different WW's at two different times in his career. And it's not like he just fights them every other issue so you can't claim that to be inconsistent.

Like I said, the sooner you guys realize that the slade wilson hindered by CIS/PIS vs street-levels isn't the real slade, the better. He was intorduced as someone who could be a threat to a team of heroes by himself. you should respect that and recognize it as his true measure of formiddability

Originally posted by namorsubby
yes he did do the same thing, only he didn't have to use his entire body to do it, which might explain why the door didn't have further damage.lol

It was a sniper, and he was close enough that bats was able to immediately respnd by tossing a batarang to his position on a roof.

lol, and this has been proven by feats.......yeah right.

lol, peak humans time bullets, trace bullets, dodge thousands of bullets, all the time. But if you wanna put cap on a pedastal as the best bullet timer, go ahead. I understand, they all do it, it justs they don't do it liek cap.lol

He doesn't have many strength feats and it's not PIS.he's done it to two different WW's at two different times in his career. And it's not like he just fights them every other issue so you can't claim that to be inconsistent.

Like I said, the sooner you guys realize that the slade wilson hindered by CIS/PIS vs street-levels isn't the real slade, the better. He was intorduced as someone who could be a threat to a team of heroes individually. you should respect that and recognize it as his true measure of formiddability

Anyone can tell you it was less impressive. Batman is nowhere near as strong as Cap. And the capkick knocked down Cosmic Carnage. Now that's a power to behold.

So it was PIS then? I see.

Yep. What's the matter? Hard to search for some decent Wayne's feats, isn't it? At least when you try to compare them to Steve's.

Everyone dodges bullets in comics. But yeah, Cap's feats are better. And when we get official explanation that he's enhanced and sees things faster, what more do you want?

So what that it's consistent with Slade? It's not with WW, period. Not a good strength gauge, really.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Anyone can tell you it was less impressive. Batman is nowhere near as strong as Cap. And the capkick knocked down Cosmic Carnage. Now that's a power to behold.

So it was PIS then? I see.

Yep. What's the matter? Hard to search for some decent Wayne's feats, isn't it? At least when you try to compare them to Steve's.

Everyone dodges bullets in comics. But yeah, Cap's feats are better. And when we get official explanation that he's enhanced and sees things faster, what more do you want?

So what that it's consistent with Slade? It's not with WW, period. Not a good strength gauge, really.

Anyone? no, my friend, not anyone without a conflict of interest.

And no, Cap is no where near way stronger than batman according to feats. How you guys come to these conclusions, IDK.

What was PIS?

lol, you can't be serious right now. Do you know why people developed the term "batgod"? It's because all of the impressive, outlandishly spectacular feats he performs, which marvelites will always complain about.

Cap's feats aren't better. Like I said, we can do a comparison right now of you want to, but just like any pro-cap side of the comparision, you will nitpick at the feats and find a way to say they're inferior.

Yes, he's ehanced. If he wasn't, he'd still be 98lbs. lol, but that doesn't make him superhuman.

lol, what do you mean not consistent with WW? Slade is in all her encounters with himself by defualt, so inevitably what happens in their meetings is consistent.

Originally posted by jinzin
except........ Batman's taken on Lobo in a straight fist fight... 😕
lol

Really when was that!!!

Originally posted by Uriel005
Really when was that!!!

I don't remember which issue.. but it had terrible art... kinda like Sam Keith art... hell it may have been Sam Keith... I just remember the scans in one of his respect thread... and me doing this in disbelief at the ludicrousness of it all:

jawdrop

Calling shennanigans on that then... Batman has a better chance of breaking supermans pinky without the aid of any superman counters. I feel so ashamed of DC for that one if there weren't some extreme circumstances depowering Lobo or massively buffing batman like something written into the cosmic log saying it had to happen. DC is usually so good about things like that where "human" characters deal with beings they IRL should be able to hurt whether because of an exploitable weakness or they are within a bracket of strength that there are things to be done to make up for any deficiencies in the hero or villains repertoire to handle their opponent. I mean come on Lobo... a guy who gives superman trouble in a straight fist fight? Serious PIS going on there because a full force blow from Lobo would cripple batman worse than Bane's backsnap.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Anyone? no, my friend, not anyone without a conflict of interest.

And no, Cap is no where near way stronger than batman according to feats. How you guys come to these conclusions, IDK.

What was PIS?

lol, you can't be serious right now. Do you know why people developed the term "batgod"? It's because all of the impressive, outlandishly spectacular feats he performs, which marvelites will always complain about.

Cap's feats aren't better. Like I said, we can do a comparison right now of you want to, but just like any pro-cap side of the comparision, you will nitpick at the feats and find a way to say they're inferior.

Yes, he's ehanced. If he wasn't, he'd still be 98lbs. lol, but that doesn't make him superhuman.

lol, what do you mean not consistent with WW? Slade is in all her encounters with himself by defualt, so inevitable what happens in their meetings is consistent.

According to feats he is. Unless you dismiss half of them. Lifting and tossing a tree with one hand, let's see Batman do the same. And I'm really not interested in seeing him cutting it down with his batkick.

Educate me then.

I'd like to see any of his fabled feats that surpass/are equal to Cap.

Current writer stated he's superhuman and we've seen more than enough proof for that.

What I meant was her history with taking superhuman punches. Someone like Slade hurting her is laughable.

Originally posted by jinzin
I don't remember which issue.. but it had terrible art... kinda like Sam Keith art... hell it may have been Sam Keith... I just remember the scans in one of his respect thread... and me doing this in disbelief at the ludicrousness of it all:

jawdrop

Yeah, art by Sam Keith. I'm not too wild about his work either.

Hey I'm not arguing with you.. except for the notion that DC handles it's humans well... cause... well... Batman....
lol. Sorry but the guy took shots from Darksied, put down Grundy and has beaten a demon possessed wonder woman, he's the DC response to Cap's ridiculousness... though not as much/often.

Took shots from DS? That was with Motherbox, right?

Grundy's power level fluctuates.

I'm not sure I've seen that fight with WW. He nerve jabbed her or something? In other encounter she one-shotted him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
According to feats he is. Unless you dismiss half of them. Lifting and tossing a tree with one hand, let's see Batman do the same. And I'm really not interested in seeing him cutting it down with his batkick.

Educate me then.

I'd like to see any of his fabled feats that surpass/are equal to Cap.

Current writer stated he's superhuman and we've seen more than enough proof for that.

What I meant was her history with taking superhuman punches. Someone like Slade hurting her is laughable.

Yeah, art by Sam Keith. I'm not too wild about his work either.

Please, you couldn't show me anything to put Cap squarely above Batman.You'd be welcome to try.

lol, why am I always the one tossing out feats? I'm not the one claiming one character is superior to the other. I think cap and bats are about even. Your claim, your resonsibility to prove it.

Like I've said before, all these cap/bat comparisons end the same.I've been involved in one with DB, and I've seen it multiple times. The problem is, like with the steel door feats we discussed, people wanna interpret the "impressiveness" of the feats by what's convienent to their stance.

Which writer says Cap is superhuman?

lol, again with this.....I never claimed slade hurt her. She said herself she could shrugg off his best blows. I've mentioned that about 20 times now. Idk why you guys insist on taking what i say and interpreting it however you wish.

Originally posted by jinzin
Hey I'm not arguing with you.. except for the notion that DC handles it's humans well... cause... well... Batman....
lol. Sorry but the guy took shots from Darksied, put down Grundy and has beaten a demon possessed wonder woman, he's the DC response to Cap's ridiculousness... though not as much/often.

I did say usually. Besides heroes like the question and huntress usually stay within their power bracket. Like anything else in comics their are always exceptions.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Took shots from DS? That was with Motherbox, right?

Grundy's power level fluctuates.

I'm not sure I've seen that fight with WW. He nerve jabbed her or something? In other encounter she one-shotted him.

yeah... but stilll... I mean... *uck.

Fluctuates sure.. but I'm pretty sure he was brick at the time.

Can't remember. There's another fight where he gave her all hell though.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Total exaggeration, like I said. Batman doesn't match up to cap unless you discount half of Cap feats? Statements like these - which are so obviously untrue it's mind-boggling - make me wonder why I even bother with the same few posters, who make the same kind of statements.

Please, you couldn't show me anything to put Cap squarely above Batman.You'd be welcome to try.

lol, why am I always the one tossing out feats? I'm not the one claiming one character is superior to the other. I think cap and bats are about even. Your claim, your resonsibility to prove it.

Like I've said before, all these cap/bat comparisons end the same.I've been involved in one with DB, and I've seen it multiple times. The problem is, like with the steel door feats we discussed, people wanna interpret the "impressiveness" of the feats by what's convienent to their stance.

Which writer says Cap is superhuman?

lol, again with this.....I never claimed slade hurt her. She said herself she could shrugg off his best blows. I've mentioned that about 20 times now. Idk why you guys insist on taking what i say and interpreting it however you wish.

You discount them all 😱 In strength department you'd be hard pressed to find feats equal to Cap.

You see, I don't have to. I already did. "I don't like it, it didn't happen" doesn't work with me. Two writers have shown us he's nearly immune to alcohol poisoning. Yet you think that's PIS. Okay...

For the 100th time... Ed Brubaker.

He drew blood, so yes, he hurt her. Plot Induced Stupidity.

Originally posted by jinzin
yeah... but stilll... I mean... *uck.

Fluctuates sure.. but I'm pretty sure he was brick at the time.

Can't remember. There's another fight where he gave her all hell though.

He wasn't trying to seriously harm him anyway, right?

He always is. Question is how powerful he was then... we know he got cheapshotted 😛 (although tbf in another fight it was Batman who got sneak attacked lol).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You discount them all 😱 In strength department you'd be hard pressed to find feats equal to Cap.

You see, I don't have to. I already did. "I don't like it, it didn't happen" doesn't work with me. Two writers have shown us he's nearly immune to alcohol poisoning. Yet you think that's PIS. Okay...

For the 100th time... Ed Brubaker.

He drew blood, so yes, he hurt her. Plot Induced Stupidity.

He wasn't trying to seriously harm him anyway, right?

He always is. Question is how powerful he was then... we know he got cheapshotted 😛 (although tbf in another fight it was Batman who got sneak attacked lol).

lol, yeah right, tell that to Darthgoober. I could easily present feats comparable, and I have, but like I said, it will not amount to anything due to the convienent interpretation of the other side.

I've made entire respect threads to prove a point, hundreds of scans/feats, but the truth of the matter is, people can discount what they want to discount.

lol, again. You take what I say and equate it to "I don't like, it didn't happen", mis-shaping and twisting my actual argument.

LOL, again with the coloful interpretation. When did Ed say Cap was superhuman? Because if you're refering to the comments he made in the interview you guys keep showing, I'd like to know how you concluded form that that he's superhuman

He didn't "hurt" her. He couldn't really "hurt" her, not in a million years. busting a lip and dealing someone a legitamit/substantial injury are two entirely different things.

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, yeah right, tell that to Darthgoober. I could easily present feats comparable, and I have, but like I said, it will not amount to anything due to the convienent interpretation of the other side.

I've made entire respect threads to prove a point, hundreds of scans/feats, to prove a point before, but the truth of the matter is, people can discount what they want to discount.

lol, again. You take what I say and equate it to "I don't like, it didn't happen", mis-shaping and twisting my actual argument.

No, you could not.

Originally posted by namorsubby
LOL, again with the coloful interpretation. When did Ed say Cap was superhuman? Because if you're refering to the comments he made in the interview you guys keep showing, I'd like to know how you concluded form that that he's superhuman

You're hopeless. There was no colorful interpretation. Ed couldn't have been more clear.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He didn't "hurt" her. He couldn't really "hurt" her, not in a million years. busting a lip and dealing someone a legitamit/substantial injury are two entirely different things.

mmm

OK, OK, he didn't hurt her. So why did you bring up that feat when we were gauging their strength levels? 😱

For anyone interested, here's that interview with Brubaker:

Originally posted by Deadline
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060330214926

"Just physical exertion. While I don't think of Cap as 'super' like Spider-man or Superman,[B] he's clearly not Batman with a shield. He's not just like a guy who works out all the time and is trained. He's been enhanced, and I wanted to show that a bit."

"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. He's not superman, but clearly, he's been shown to be much faster and stronger than a well-trained athlete, many many times. One of everyone's favorite Cap appearances seems to be DD: Born Again, where he's shown running to fast that he's a breeze."

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060418204829&q=ed%20brubaker

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either." [/B]

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
For anyone interested, here's that interview with Brubaker:

[QUOTE=9218855]Originally posted by Deadline
[B]Caps is above peak human. These are quotes from Ed Brubaker. Thanks go to Daredevil1 for finding them.

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060330214926

"Just physical exertion. While I don't think of Cap as 'super' like Spider-man or Superman,[B] he's clearly not Batman with a shield. He's not just like a guy who works out all the time and is trained. He's been enhanced, and I wanted to show that a bit."

"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. He's not superman, but clearly, he's been shown to be much faster and stronger than a well-trained athlete, many many times. One of everyone's favorite Cap appearances seems to be DD: Born Again, where he's shown running to fast that he's a breeze."

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060418204829&q=ed%20brubaker

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either." [/B]

And where in this passge does the author classify Cap as a superhuman? In fact I see a statement which basically says the opposite.

"he's not "super", like superman or spider-man"

He also basically equates batman to "just a guy who works out all the time and is trained" lol

Are you kidding me?

Brubaker makes it clear that Steve is beyond peak human. That's what you wanted to see 😬

Cap is not on Spider-Man's or Superman's levels, it's common knowledge. So what's wrong with that statement?

And read the part about the serum again.