Captain America v Deathstroke

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He makes it clear Cap is beyond peak human. That's what you wanted.

Learn to read. Not as super. Of course he's not as super as Parker or Kal.

He makes it clear that he feels batman is just a guy who trains and works out alot, and that he believes cap is more than that. He said nothing about Steve being superhuman.

"learn to read"

didn't see the "as", my mistake, sorry, but seriously stilt, do you really have to take it there? I can read just fine.There's no need for insults. We can end it right here if you can't be civil.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He makes it clear that he feels batman is just a guy who trains and works out alot, and that he believes cap is more than that. He said nothing about Steve being superhuman.

I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either.

That's superhuman in my book.

Originally posted by namorsubby
"learn to read"

didn't see the "as", my mistake, sorry, but seriously stilt, do you really have to take it there? I can read just fine.There's no need for insults.

I actually edited that out of my post prior to your reply. Don't talk to me about insults, didn't you call people that were arguing with you neanderthals not so long ago?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Are you kidding me?

Brubaker makes it clear that Steve is beyond peak human. That's what you wanted to see 😬

Cap is not on Spider-Man's or Superman's levels, it's common knowledge. So what's wrong with that statement?

And read the part about the serum again.

Unique metabolism. Preternatural strength. Actual bullet dodging. His body replenishing the SSS. Surviving being frozen.

That's not a peak human. That's a legit meta... like it or not.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Ok people post panels of Cap's feats like getting up from a bullet to the brain after 12 minutes to go stomp on somebody's neck. You then state oh it's only a high end feat which is then followed by a statement of one of Slade's high end feats i.e. high speed regenerations and strength.
The response to your attempts to label Cap's feats as inferior tends to be that your own logic is self defeating because not only do you state that high end feats do not count for the Cap but you follow up with a high end feat from slade which is not consistent throughout DC canon and try to use that to disprove Cap's high end feat.

Don't you see the problem with disavowing high end feats from the Cap and allowing them for Slade a bit problematic. Given the level of the Captains power is much more variable than Slade but I attribute it to the length of which his series has run.

However when arguing in the caps favor I was trying to go on the side of average for the both of them. Yes I will grant that on average Slade's regeneration is higher but I must also state his endurance seems to flop and spike rather too much for my tastes. I mean from comic to comic sometimes bullets are minor inconveniences to him and other times downright traumatic. Cap tends to have a bit more consistency in that when he gets shot it has the tendency to slow him down but not cripple him. Additionally his average strength tends to fluctuate between epitome of human to a muscle man benching cars for a morning workout. (bit of exaggeration but you get my point)

Slade however tends to remain at the physical level of peak human in terms of strength because in Teen Titan's I've seen heroes like batman and robin take some pretty bad beatings from him and as far as I'm aware his durability tends to remain somewhat consistent at around enough to take a few blows from beefy strength villains though he relies more on dodging as more than a few hits from the stronger members of the rogues gallery does tend to put him down. So with that I tend to mark Slade's strength as peak human if not a bit above because "normal" human characters have taken quite the beating from him and still kept going.

Also in terms of experience Cap has quite a few years on Slade and a lot of his enemies were extremely h2h savvy and he does not always use his shield to deal with such enemies weather because their reflexes make the shield a frisbee to be caught and returned or the fact that they are humans used to fighting powerful heroes and as such learn to dodge such things, Cap usually finds a way to beat them.

Slade is no pushover in h2h but his style is much more structured and technique oriented. I give the advantage in h2h to Cap because it's the philosophy of fighting and his sheer force of will. I mean Iron man beat him till his jaw was practically hanging off due to his suit being essentially made to beat him and he still gets up to keep going. It's like fighting a Bruce Lee and a Shaolin monk. The monk has years of history to draw from on how to counter, attack and block but the Jeet Kun Do style of Bruce Lee was much more practical in that the limitations of a set style were less of a factor due to there technically being no style in Jeet Kun Do. Cap has the experience and the adaptive fighting style that many martial artists lack because he simply doesn't have the limitations of a style other than what works and what doesn't. I have noticed that Slade on the other hand has a very regimented fighting style that comes with years of practice and the perfection of skills. I give the advantage to flexibility and experience because the two put together make it very difficult to find something the Cap hasn't seen.

Also your comments about Slade taking on large numbers of heroes of varying skill and ability. Purely plot power... If that were a baseline for his power then how is it that "normal" human heroes can still beat him down in a straight fist fight on occasion. IF his level of strength were really at that level then no individual unaided human fighter would ever stand a chance. I mean come on being able to fight at such a speed the flash can't dodge it... and having batman and sidekicks beat him even once in a fight??? something doesn't add up there at all.

In the event people feel TLDR- As I said in many of your posts you dismiss the high end Cap and push high end Slade forward discounting his own disparities in the level of his strength. The only reason I have this unfeasibly large post most people probably wouldn't be willing to read is because I am tired of seeing across multiple boards with you pushing Slade forth as some kind of unstoppable juggernaut that would just rampage through other characters while asking for more proof of other characters only to shoot it down as them picking overpowered moments in their history while doing the exact same thing to Slade.

BTW I am a Slade fan as well as a Cap fan before someone accuses me of being a cap fanboy with raging butthurt.

This.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He makes it clear that he feels batman is just a guy who trains and works out alot, and that he believes cap is more than that. He said nothing about Steve being superhuman.

"learn to read"

Context? Brubaker has written alot of Batman comics, he doesn't think Batman is some guy the point hes making is that you need more than training to be Cap.

I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's superhuman in my book.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I lol'd.

Come on Phil. Rick Jones used telepathic powers to paralayze a space fleet. He was described in a similar way as well, does that mean his feat wasn't superhuman?

Context, jesus. Whats really interesting is that you ignored the bit where the word SUPER is used.

Originally posted by Deadline

"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. [/B]

Wow, just wow. 😐

Originally posted by Deadline
Come on Phil. Rick Jones used telepathic powers to paralayze a space fleet. He was described in a similar way as well, does that mean his feat wasn't superhuman?

Originally posted by Deadline
Context, jesus.

^ trolling. I have a feeling you are focusing oe the word feat while ignoring the fact telepathic powers in itself makes you superhuman.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's superhuman in my book.

I actually edited that out of my post prior to your reply. Don't talk to me about insults, didn't you call people that were arguing with you neanderthals not so long ago?

Unique metabolism. Preternatural strength. Actual bullet dodging. His body replenishing the SSS. Surviving being frozen.

That's not a peak human. That's a legit meta... like it or not.

You know what Stilt, everything else aside, You're right.

According to the interview you've shown, and written under the interpretation of Brubaker, Captain America is a superhuman.

Do I think this was the original intent for Cap, or even how he is normally portrayed? No, I do not. But it is the author's take on Cap, and when he writes a Captain America story, his perception/opinion is Irrefutable comic law.

I apologize.

Edit:

Honestly, I didn't mean you when I refered to others as " a handful of neanderthals". I really shouldn't have posted that either way though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
For anyone interested, here's that interview with Brubaker:

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically."

That's basically Batman. Being just a few degrees off human.

Or do you think any human could really do some of the things Batman has done with any amount of conditioning?

edit

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Brubaker isn't very bright is he?

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically."

That's basically Batman. Being just a few degrees off human.

Or do you think any human could really do some of the things Batman has done with any amount of conditioning?

So does Cap.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Brubaker isn't very bright is he?

"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically."

That's basically Batman. Being just a few degrees off human.

Or do you think any human could really do some of the things Batman has done with any amount of conditioning?

Batman performs the same "humanly impossible" stunts as Cap IMO, but he refers to him as if he's just a guy who works out alot and is trained. It seems like an extreme understatement to me, and it was initially the reason why I concluded Cap wasn't superhuman according to the interview.

I thought that if he just thought Bats was just some trained/regularly exercised guy, then he was probably viewing Cap as not superhuman, but human perfection or Peak Human, while Batman was not.

In the DCU, Batman is considered to be trained to the peak of human perfection. So that's why I concluded what I did initially.

I think the only area in which Captain America is consistently Batman's superior is in his metabolism which grants inhuman stamina. Everywhere else they are comparable.

The only areas Cap beats Bats in featwise is healing and metabolism. These two guys are pretty damm close overall but Cap being he's juicing and Bats is natural has a slight advantage imo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the only area in which Captain America is consistently Batman's superior is in his metabolism which grants inhuman stamina. Everywhere else they are comparable.

Originally posted by nicamarvin
Fail.... 😬

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the only area in which Captain America is consistently Batman's superior is in his metabolism which grants inhuman stamina. Everywhere else they are comparable.

But yeah, Cap has those metabolism feats like not being able to get drunk, or burning out/overcoming toxins. His metabolism is, IMO, the only thing which appears to be past peak human level. Maybe healing as well, but Bats has sped up healing with chi himself.

I just always thought it actually was the SSS itself in his system that was responsible.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I honestly think Bruce has comparable stamina as well. He has feats awesome endurance/stamina feats.

But yeah, Cap has those metabolism feats like not being able to get drunk, or burning out/overcoming toxins. His metabolism is, IMO, the only thing which appears to be past peak human level. I just always thought it actually was the SSS itself in his system that was responsible.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Explain the fail without using the 😬 smiley. You know, just to prove you aren't a spammer.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think the only area in which Captain America is consistently Batman's superior is in his metabolism which grants inhuman stamina. Everywhere else they are comparable.