Sentry vs Alpha Flight

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ummm...what? I have no recollection of Alpha Flight ever lowering their defenses. They may have attempted diplomacy, but it's their own fault if they were overwhelmed by the Collective's opening salvo and proof against their durability against that power level. Iron Man and Ms. Marvel got straight up owned in a similar manner. I don't see how Iron Man did any better getting overloaded and stripped of his armor like it was a hooker's g-string. Either way, Sentry was able to match that power level. And personally, I don't believe that Alpha Flight was foolish enough to lower all their defenses. They knew they were confronting a being that had destroyed an entire town and emitting insane power levels. But I'm totally open to your interpretation if you have some scans that proves otherwise.

And Sentry got knocked unconscious by an atomic-warhead-amped Ms. Marvel, after having fought the Molemen's monsters and Shultron and all of her Iron Man suits for five issues straight. Not only that, he was doing this all while holding back the entire time because Ms. Marvel ordered him not to kill Shultron. And what people seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel also ambushed him with a cheapshot. And what people also seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel is already fugging strong and durable as hell even at normal levels. Why people continue to hold this against Sentry is beyond me.

Actually yeah they did lower their guard they tried to talk to him and asked him to turn around they had no intention of fighting and then the Collective attacked. Except they wouldn't even know the full details of what has been going on as all the Collective feats happened very quick. Yet they did far better then what Alpha Flight did, so you honestly believe they didn't lower their guard and were in fight mode? prove it, because Sasquatch started off "anyone we know?" the Collective stopped moving "Did he stop? I think he stopped" and then Walter asked him to "Excuse me!! Sir? We're Alpha Flight's preimere super-team. On behalf of the Canadian government we'd like to ask you to turn your naked self around and back away"...then BAM! the Collective attacked off-panel. Does that sound like they were in fight mode? Hell we don't even know what happened as in the handbooks for Puck II said she was killed with a "wave of nanotech scorpions". So for all we know they had an epic battle. Actually Iron Man in space was going one on one with the Collective, and Ms.Marvel was very crucial in beating him. The New Avengers beat the Collective, and Alpha Flight is vastly superior to them.

Yeah I know that hence why I said amped up, and a cheap shot eh? Kinda like what Collective did to Alpha Flight (hence why I brought it up). Sentry rountinely has lower feats that put him drastically down and even his high end feats are nothing Alpha Flight hasn't dealt with and prevailed against 😬

Originally posted by -K-M-
Actually yeah they did lower their guard they tried to talk to him and asked him to turn around they had no intention of fighting and then the Collective attacked. Except they wouldn't even know the full details of what has been going on as all the Collective feats happened very quick. Yet they did far better then what Alpha Flight did, so you honestly believe they didn't lower their guard and were in fight mode? prove it, because Sasquatch started off "anyone we know?" the Collective stopped moving "Did he stop? I think he stopped" and then Walter asked him to "Excuse me!! Sir? We're Alpha Flight's preimere super-team. On behalf of the Canadian government we'd like to ask you to turn your naked self around and back away"...then BAM! the Collective attacked off-panel. Does that sound like they were in fight mode? Hell we don't even know what happened as in the handbooks for Puck II said she was killed with a "wave of nanotech scorpions". So for all we know they had an epic battle. Actually Iron Man in space was going one on one with the Collective, and Ms.Marvel was very crucial in beating him. The New Avengers beat the Collective, and Alpha Flight is vastly superior to them.

Yeah I know that hence why I said amped up, and a cheap shot eh? Kinda like what Collective did to Alpha Flight (hence why I brought it up). Sentry rountinely has lower feats that put him drastically down and even his high end feats are nothing Alpha Flight hasn't dealt with and prevailed against 😬

And you may acknowledge that Ms. Marvel was amped up, but you didn't appear to acknowledge this:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
after having fought the Molemen's monsters and Shultron and all of her Iron Man suits for five issues straight. Not only that, he was doing this all while holding back the entire time because Ms. Marvel ordered him not to kill Shultron. And what people seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel also ambushed him with a cheapshot. And what people also seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel is already fugging strong and durable as hell even at normal levels

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So. In your interpretation, Alpha Flight is just plain dumb and turned off all powers and let down all defenses. Apparently they weren't in fight mode, they were in stupid mode. K. I mean, I can't really argue with you there since you know Alpha Flight better than I and it did all happen off-panel. As for me, I would actually give them some credit and say while they didn't want to fight, they were prepared for a fight and they were simply overwhelmed by the Collective's powers. The New Avengers used a plot device to gather the Collective's bio energy signatures. When they tried to battle him straight up, they got raped like Alpha Flight did.

Apparently so as we don't see Shaman getting anything ready with his pouch which he always does, and Guardian and Vindicator didn't even have their shields activated (You can tell when their on). Puck is "invulnerable" and "nearly indestructable" yet he apparently died pretty quickly. Even Sasquatch was taking the leadership role of the team, when in fact it's Guardian who is the leader and has always talked first being the leader and all. Pretty much the same thing, they had their guard down as even Sasquatch was calling the Collective "Sir" and Walter survived the attack? There's people on the team far more durable then him, so him surviving while others didn't is silly. Not entirely as Iron Man and Sentry were dealing with them and even Iron Man got the better of one of the exchanges between the Collective. Alpha Flight is full of plot devices, and I'm not kidding especially with Shaman's pouch.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And you may acknowledge that Ms. Marvel was amped up, but you didn't appear to acknowledge this:
Sentry, after fighting all that for five issues straight and being focused on ripping Shultron's head off and getting blindsided by an amped Ms. Marvel is hardly equatable to what happened to Alpha Flight. Alpha Flight was briefed that the entity had destroyed an entire town. The Collective was running straight towards them and Alpha Flight, being undistracted and looking straight at the Collective got raped. I'd hardly characterize that as being a cheap shot on equal footing with what happened to Sentry. Sentry's average feats put him at a consistent power level on par with the Collective and he took it straight to the Collective. The Collective anally raped Alpha Flight. Was it an ignominious defeat? Maybe. But I didn't write the comics, I just read em.

No I know, but Sentry wasn't exactally showing wear and tare and he was in crazy mood because of his wife. Yeah it is the same thing not the circumstances, but the outcome of it merely being a cheap shot. Even Hulk has been one-shotted by Wrecker when Hulk's guard was down. Is Wrecker on the same level as Hulk? no way.

The Collective took out AF when they were unprepared and not exactally in bloodlust mode or even looked like a fight mode as they even asked him to turn around. If they knew he was a killer, you think AF would tell the Collective to turn around and go away? No, AF has never backed down from a fight even against Elder Gods, and Cosmic beings.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Apparently so as we don't see Shaman getting anything ready with his pouch which he always does, and Guardian and Vindicator didn't even have their shields activated (You can tell when their on). Puck is "invulnerable" and "nearly indestructable" yet he apparently died pretty quickly. Even Sasquatch was taking the leadership role of the team, when in fact it's Guardian who is the leader and has always talked first being the leader and all. Pretty much the same thing, they had their guard down as even Sasquatch was calling the Collective "Sir" and Walter survived the attack? There's people on the team far more durable then him, so him surviving while others didn't is silly. Not entirely as Iron Man and Sentry were dealing with them and even Iron Man got the better of one of the exchanges between the Collective. Alpha Flight is full of plot devices, and I'm not kidding especially with Shaman's pouch.

No I know, but Sentry wasn't exactally showing wear and tare and he was in crazy mood because of his wife. Yeah it is the same thing not the circumstances, but the outcome of it merely being a cheap shot. Even Hulk has been one-shotted by Wrecker when Hulk's guard was down. Is Wrecker on the same level as Hulk? no way.

The Collective took out AF when they were unprepared and not exactally in bloodlust mode or even looked like a fight mode as they even asked him to turn around. If they knew he was a killer, you think AF would tell the Collective to turn around and go away? No, AF has never backed down from a fight even against Elder Gods, and Cosmic beings.

And about shields being activated, it's arguable either way. I've been working on a respect thread for Dr. Doom, which is on the verge of completion. And through his 100+ appearances, writers and artists vary in whether Doom's forcefield or his armor is absorbing attacks. I wanted to separate all his forcefield scans from his armor durability's scans into neat piles and I just can't do it. Perhaps the art did not depict them in full defense mode, but by that same token, the art did not depict anything. It all happened off-panel. So you don't know that they didn't have the time to raise their defenses or mount a counter-attack. Either way, Sentry took on Collective's unmitigated power that was becoming more versatile and intense as the story went on. And that speaks volumes to me when I consider this scenario.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Ummm...what? I have no recollection of Alpha Flight ever lowering their defenses. They may have attempted diplomacy, but it's their own fault if they were overwhelmed by the Collective's opening salvo and proof against their durability against that power level. Iron Man and Ms. Marvel got straight up owned in a similar manner. I don't see how Iron Man did any better getting overloaded and stripped of his armor like it was a hooker's g-string. Either way, Sentry was able to match that power level. And personally, I don't believe that Alpha Flight was foolish enough to lower all their defenses. They knew they were confronting a being that had destroyed an entire town and emitting insane power levels. But I'm totally open to your interpretation if you have some scans that proves otherwise.

And Sentry got knocked unconscious by an atomic-warhead-amped Ms. Marvel, after having fought the Molemen's monsters and Shultron and all of her Iron Man suits for five issues straight. Not only that, he was doing this all while holding back the entire time because Ms. Marvel ordered him not to kill Shultron. And what people seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel also ambushed him with a cheapshot. And what people also seem to forget is that Ms. Marvel is already fugging strong and durable as hell even at normal levels. Why people continue to hold this against Sentry is beyond me.

Yup Yup!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Most of everything you say is reasonable and in my mind true. Bendis apparently does not like high-level plot device magic. He nerfed Dr. Strange completely. And apparently, Shaman's pouch o tricks suffered the same fate. But I do disagree with a few things. I don't think they were completely letting their guard down. In my mind, Sasquatch calling him (and I'm paraphrasing), "flaming naked man," is less a product of lowering defenses and more a product of Bendis' quirky dialogue humor where people crack wise in dangerous situations. They knew that the Collective was the cause of the destruction of an entire town full of people. They knew that he was a killer.

And about shields being activated, it's arguable either way. I've been working on a respect thread for Dr. Doom, which is on the verge of completion. And through his 100+ appearances, writers and artists vary in whether Doom's forcefield or his armor is absorbing attacks. I wanted to separate all his forcefield scans from his armor durability's scans into neat piles and I just can't do it. Perhaps the art did not depict them in full defense mode, but by that same token, the art did not depict anything. It all happened off-panel. So you don't know that they didn't have the time to raise their defenses or mount a counter-attack. Either way, Sentry took on Collective's unmitigated power that was becoming more versatile and intense as the story went on. And that speaks volumes to me when I consider this scenario.

This is what I see as well, Alpha Flight was mugged, and even though Shaman can do all of the things he has done with his mojo bag, he is still human, and his durability and physical capabilities can't be compared to the Sentry's.

The Sentry could be briefed on Alpha Flight, just like Alpha Flight would be briefed on him, and he could simply get rid of the most powerful people of the group at light speed. No one can take his speed away from him Bob was in Turkey saving the world from a natural disaster, and back so soon Lindy (his Wife) thought he had gone to the bathroom.

i can see Bob ending this in minutes if he knew what he was up against, and with Cloc in his head dictating highest threat level to lowest, I'd put my money on The Sentry any day of the week. I really don't see Sasquatch as a threat, as he could easily be grabbed by his foot and thrown to parts unknown, if not an orbittal bfr.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Most of everything you say is reasonable and in my mind true. Bendis apparently does not like high-level plot device magic. He nerfed Dr. Strange completely. And apparently, Shaman's pouch o tricks suffered the same fate. But I do disagree with a few things. I don't think they were completely letting their guard down. In my mind, Sasquatch calling him (and I'm paraphrasing), "flaming naked man," is less a product of lowering defenses and more a product of Bendis' quirky dialogue humor where people crack wise in dangerous situations. They knew that the Collective was the cause of the destruction of an entire town full of people. They knew that he was a killer.

And about shields being activated, it's arguable either way. I've been working on a respect thread for Dr. Doom, which is on the verge of completion. And through his 100+ appearances, writers and artists vary in whether Doom's forcefield or his armor is absorbing attacks. I wanted to separate all his forcefield scans from his armor durability's scans into neat piles and I just can't do it. Perhaps the art did not depict them in full defense mode, but by that same token, the art did not depict anything. It all happened off-panel. So you don't know that they didn't have the time to raise their defenses or mount a counter-attack. Either way, Sentry took on Collective's unmitigated power that was becoming more versatile and intense as the story went on. And that speaks volumes to me when I consider this scenario.

It sure didn't seem like they knew he was a killer with their comments and initial actions even telling the Collective to turn around and go away like they didn't have to deal with him.

When Guardian or Vindicator have their shields up it generally encases them in a yellow aura. Who knows what happened off-panel for all we know Guardian did better then Sentry, but thinking back there was one page that showed Guardian charging at the Collective. Yeah, but all the Collective was doing against Sentry was using basically brute strength, he didn't show that versatility when he fought him.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
This is what I see as well, Alpha Flight was mugged, and even though Shaman can do all of the things he has done with his mojo bag, he is still human, and his durability and physical capabilities can't be compared to the Sentry's.

The Sentry could be briefed on Alpha Flight, just like Alpha Flight would be briefed on him, and he could simply get rid of the most powerful people of the group at light speed. No one can take his speed away from him Bob was in Turkey saving the world from a natural disaster, and back so soon Lindy (his Wife) thought he had gone to the bathroom.

i can see Bob ending this in minutes if he knew what he was up against, and with Cloc in his head dictating highest threat level to lowest, I'd put my money on The Sentry any day of the week. I really don't see Sasquatch as a threat, as he could easily be grabbed by his foot and thrown to parts unknown, if not an orbittal bfr.

His internal durability no, but his spells they can as he has shown automatic shields before. Plus this time he would know he would be in a fight, and tehnically all he has to say is "Shush" and it's over.

He hasn't done anything like that in comics, so why would he do it here? Plus Alpha Flight has members that can go lightspeed themselves. Northstar was traveling the world in what looked to be in seconds in his Northstar mini. Even Guardian has gone faster then light and traveled thousands of years into the past

CLOC can be a weakness, which even Iron Man used against him and it's a tactic Guardian or BOX IV could repeat. Sasquatch isn't the threat the biggest ones are Shaman and Guardian.

Is CLOC even around anymore?

Shaman isn't in this fight

Originally posted by tkitna
Is CLOC even around anymore?

Good question, most likely still around but being ignored.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shaman isn't in this fight

Keep forgetting as the debate merged with Alpha Flight that fought the Collective, but Snowbird > Shaman anyways,

I have a question for you Mungi, in your honest opinion do you really think that the original Guardian could defeat Sentry?

I've always viewed him as a powerhouse but at a lower level, kind of like Booster Gold, or Ironman level. I've seen the respect thread that you contributed to, but I just can't see him on the Collective's level, and in that comic Sentry looked to be pushing him around, only to be bfr'd via wormhole, Sentry had a very good showing.

I read his fight with Terrax again, and Terrax wasn't holding back, he was going for the kill... he showed the same amount of effort (despite what some may think) and looked to be outputting more cosmic power than he did when he obliterated a planet.... Bob took it with a smile. Sentry is a team wrecker without a doubt.

Originally posted by -K-M-
It sure didn't seem like they knew he was a killer with their comments and initial actions even telling the Collective to turn around and go away like they didn't have to deal with him.

When Guardian or Vindicator have their shields up it generally encases them in a yellow aura. Who knows what happened off-panel for all we know Guardian did better then Sentry, but thinking back there was one page that showed Guardian charging at the Collective. Yeah, but all the Collective was doing against Sentry was using basically brute strength, he didn't show that versatility when he fought him.

😬

And when Doom has his shields up it usually encases him in an aura also. But he's taken ridiculous damage to his armor that could only be blunted by his forcefields and point-blank contact shots that hit his armor actually hit his forcefield as indicated by the captions. It doesn't mean that if the forcefield is not drawn, that it is inactive. No matter what interpretation you side with, the Collective's actual attack on Alpha Flight was never depicted. So whether they had their shields up as common sense would dictate, or whether they completely lowered their defenses and treated the situation as a border crossing dispute as you seem to be arguing is complete speculation. Personally speaking, I think I'm giving Alpha Flight more credit than you are. I don't believe they would be nonchalant and careless in confronting a being that had destroyed an entire town's population and was crackling with unknown energy at several hundred mph.

Mini Series Sentry wins this.......

His more inconsistent showings are confusing......the one who fought World War Hulk could win it but it would not be suprising if Alpha Flight took him down (A big factor for their win would be Snow Bird and her Great Beasts).....

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I have a question for you Mungi, in your honest opinion do you really think that the original Guardian could defeat Sentry?

I've always viewed him as a powerhouse but at a lower level, kind of like Booster Gold, or Ironman level. I've seen the respect thread that you contributed to, but I just can't see him on the Collective's level, and in that comic Sentry looked to be pushing him around, only to be bfr'd via wormhole, Sentry had a very good showing.

I read his fight with Terrax again, and Terrax wasn't holding back, he was going for the kill... he showed the same amount of effort (despite what some may think) and looked to be outputting more cosmic power than he did when he obliterated a planet.... Bob took it with a smile. Sentry is a team wrecker without a doubt.

Depends, I don't see why Guardian couldn't replicate the Cloc feat especially since classic Guardian sans his upgrade hacked in and easily manipulated Plodex systems which years later Iron Man, Black Knight, Stingray, and Yellowjacket working together only understood part of the system

Guardian is above Iron Man, quite abit actually. Except their fight wasn't long and the AF fight with the Collective was off-panel so who knows what happened.

Yeah and? Terrax didn't even use the full power cosmic he tried to use his axe which Sentry stopped. Terrax has been owned badly by Thing and he was pissed off, Silver Surfer seriously owned him (worse then Sentry did), Terrax just has ALOT of low showings. Prove he was outputting more cosmic power when he destroyed the planet, because in Silver Surfer the "Effects" were bigger but the damage output wasn't that large when Terrax appeared.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It sure didn't seem like Spidey or Cage or Cap was serious at all when they were wrung through the Bendis mill-o-dialogue-fun either in their New Avengers appearances. Do you honestly think that Alpha Flight would be content with the Collective simply turning to the left and not crossing the border? That they would say to themselves, "Well... job well done. Let's go home and watch an Entourage DVD."

😬

And when Doom has his shields up it usually encases him in an aura also. But he's taken ridiculous damage to his armor that could only be blunted by his forcefields and point-blank contact shots that hit his armor actually hit his forcefield as indicated by the captions. It doesn't mean that if the forcefield is not drawn, that it is inactive. No matter what interpretation you side with, the Collective's actual attack on Alpha Flight was never depicted. So whether they had their shields up as common sense would dictate, or whether they completely lowered their defenses and treated the situation as a border crossing dispute as you seem to be arguing is complete speculation. Personally speaking, I think I'm giving Alpha Flight more credit than you are. I don't believe they would be nonchalant and careless in confronting a being that had destroyed an entire town's population and was crackling with unknown energy at several hundred mph.

They were very serious in this ark though, and were working extremely well together. Except that's what was stated and that was their order to him, which goes with the point they didn't know what was fully going on. Because if they fully knew they would have definetly took more of a defensive tactic yet they didn't and Walter trying to talk it out?

Except for basically every apperance Guardian has you can see his shield, huge difference. Also once again did they really know that? Because as I mentioned above if they knew he killed those people who would they try to talk to him and ask him to turn away? That's competly out of character. Alpha Flight literally has taken down Elder Gods, it's silly to say the Collective merely overpowered them when beings like. Galactus, the Great Beasts, Llan, Dreamqueen, etc. couldn't. Also just to note Llan might have had a part in their death anyways

read last line:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/MysticArcana_TheBookofMagic2007_23.jpg

^ That Galactus feat is overblown by some people. Galactus was hungry (as usual), but Galactus' powers didn't even work in the dimension they were in. Not only that, Alpha Flight was assisted by an Avengers team that included the likes of Sersi, Hercules and Quasar pummeling Galactus and hurting him because his powers didn't work, before Vindicator ever brought his power to bear.

It's not silly to say that Alpha Flight got overpowered by the Collective. Hell, Guardian, Sasquatch and Box got man-handled by a depowered Juggernaut and had to get out-fitted with Hulkbuster armor to take him down. And that was AFTER Cain gave up fighting after seeing Sammy's mother hurt by their battle. Bottom-line, Alpha Flight got raped by the Collective. He was, after all, the sum total of millions of mutant bio-signatures. Keeping that in perspective does not make their defeat a "low feat." But giving them due credit must be apportioned equally, because Sentry stood up to that same force.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That Galactus feat is overblown by some people. Galactus was hungry (as usual), but Galactus' powers didn't even work in the dimension they were in. Not only that, Alpha Flight was assisted by an Avengers team that included the likes of Sersi, Hercules and Quasar pummeling Galactus and hurting him because his powers didn't work, before Vindicator ever brought his power to bear.

It's not silly to say that Alpha Flight got overpowered by the Collective. Hell, Guardian, Sasquatch and Box got man-handled by a depowered Juggernaut and had to get out-fitted with Hulkbuster armor to take him down. And that was AFTER Cain gave up fighting after seeing Sammy's mother hurt by their battle. Bottom-line, Alpha Flight got raped by the Collective. He was, after all, the sum total of millions of mutant bio-signatures. Keeping that in perspective does not make their defeat a "low feat." But giving them due credit must be apportioned equally, because Sentry stood up to that same force.

Yeah I know I mentioned this above, but like I said the feat is the combined might of Her, Quasar, Vision, Sersi, BOX IV, Windshear, Hercules, Vindicator couldn't do what Guardian did in one attack. That's a HUGE feat, and then he was the only one who could power Galactus tech. Was Galactus anywhere close to his peak level? Hell no, but Guardian took him down when other "herald-types" couldn't

What? No they didn't and Box never fought Juggernaut. Sasquatch even had Juggernaut on the ground ROCKED way before he gave up over Sammy (that happened later, but the fight was only a minute as noted by Northstar) and it was Guardian and Vindicator telling him to stop giving Jugz the chance to get up and hit Walter away when he wasn't looking then later he gave up. Also did you see Guardian or Vindicator in the fight use ANY energy attack? Nope, not one. Classic Guardian blasts have rocked the would be God-Ranark the Ravanger and he is drastically above depowered Jugz. Yet Iron Man showed he could go toe to toe with the Collective and same with Ms.Marvel and they lived to tell the story and Alpha Flight has members drastically above them. It makes complete and utter sense they were taken off-guard

Originally posted by -K-M-
That's not true

Oh and here is Snowbird's latest apperance

[b]Snowbird
(Post-Resurrection)
---------------------------------------------
Pantheon of Gods
----------------------------------------------
Incredible Hercules #119 (Vol.1) :
Here the God Squad get to the Skrull Gods palace, but it is being guarded by pantheons of Gods from 978 past and present Imperial Worlds that the Skrulls have took over. The team is completely outnumbered and outgunned as even Demorgorge the God Eater was struggling fighting them. It was Snowbird taking the form of Neooqtoq a Great Beast and was taking them all on by herself

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg14.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg15.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg16.jpg
4. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg18.jpg
5. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg19.jpg
6. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg20.jpg
7. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg21.jpg
8. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/IncredibleHercules119Zone-Meganpg22.jpg [/B]

i thought Demorgorge the God Eater was above every other god...how is he struggling here?

but i do love how he is making another appearence in comics

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah I know I mentioned this above, but like I said the feat is the combined might of Her, Quasar, Vision, Sersi, BOX IV, Windshear, Hercules, Vindicator couldn't do what Guardian did in one attack. That's a HUGE feat, and then he was the only one who could power Galactus tech. Was Galactus anywhere close to his peak level? Hell no, but Guardian took him down when other "herald-types" couldn't

Originally posted by -K-M-
What? No they didn't and Box never fought Juggernaut. Sasquatch even had Juggernaut on the ground ROCKED way before he gave up over Sammy (that happened later, but the fight was only a minute as noted by Northstar) and it was Guardian and Vindicator telling him to stop giving Jugz the chance to get up and hit Walter away when he wasn't looking then later he gave up. Also did you see Guardian or Vindicator in the fight use ANY energy attack? Nope, not one. Classic Guardian blasts have rocked the would be God-Ranark the Ravanger and he is drastically above depowered Jugz. Yet Iron Man showed he could go toe to toe with the Collective and same with Ms.Marvel and they lived to tell the story and Alpha Flight has members drastically above them. It makes complete and utter sense they were taken off-guard

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The combined attack by all the aforementioned was really putting a hurtin on Galactus. For Vindicator to come at the end and make the finishing shot does not correlate to him solely getting the credit. Galactus was both weakened and his powers didn't even work in that dimension. It shouldn't surprise anyone that their combined assault put him down. A Mjolnir throw has driven away a weak Galactus when his powers actually worked.

Really putting a hurtin on Galactus? How? because until Guardian did that attack he really wasn;t showing really any serious damage or did they even come close to what Guardian did to him what's so ever. To say their attacks were a huge thing for Guardian doing what he was doing is wrong. They even stopped fighting, and that's when Guardian did his blast. Yeah I know he was weakened, like I said several times.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I'm pretty sure Box was there. It was Guardian, Box and Sasquatch, right? Either way, Alpha Flight and depowered Juggernaut had two fights. The first fight, when Alpha Flight came to the X-Mansion to take Sammy back to Canada, they pretty much got rocked. Even I was embarassed when I read it. The second time, they were in Canada at Sammy's parents' home and had outfitted themselves with Hulkbuster armor to uphold their restraining order on Cain. Even at that point, they were only truly beating on depowered Juggernaut AFTER he gave up on the fight because Sammy's mother was critically injured.

He was 100% NOT there (first or second fight), and yeah they were getting rocked in what many agree was a badly written story as even Snowbird can't even be in the States or she would die. In their first fight, Walter and Juggernaut fought and Jugz looked far worse as literally his face looked like it was falling off (and I'm not kidding, he was mangled). Basically all of Alpha Flight (Guardian, Vindicator, Puck and even Snowbird) were taken out from behind or sneak attacked. Incorrect, Walter and Juggernaut were going one on one and Walter had him rocked on the ground and he stopped the attack because Vindicator and Guardian told him to stop. The duo told Walter to stop fighting Jugz TWICE, the second time was when Sammy got involved the first time Walter had him laid out on the ground.

Ironman and Ms. Marvel were helpless against the Collective, neither lasted more than 15 seconds against him, this is not at all true -K-M-.

Ironman was magnetically and telekinetically seperated from his armor, while Ms. Marvel was bombarded, and overloaded by energetic and telepathic assauslts... she was going to die just before the Sentry arrived and snatched the Collective up dragging him into deep space in moments.

I also noticed at the time that the Collective was doing a number on Carol Danvers that he was at least 25-30 feet in stature... did Bob grow to match his size like the Void has the power to do, was it horrible sketch work, or did the Collective reduce his size when they were out in space? I noticed that Bob also seemed to grow in size while he battled King Hulk... again this could be poor art work.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Ironman and Ms. Marvel were helpless against the Collective, neither lasted more than 15 seconds against him, this is not at all true -K-M-.

Ironman was magnetically and telekinetically seperated from his armor, while Ms. Marvel was bombarded, and overloaded by energetic and telepathic assauslts... she was going to die just before the Sentry arrived and snatched the Collective up dragging him into deep space in moments.

I also noticed at the time that the Collective was doing a number on Carol Danvers that he was at least 25-30 feet in stature... did Bob grow to match his size like the Void has the power to do, was it horrible sketch work, or did the Collective reduce his size when they were out in space? I noticed that Bob also seemed to grow in size while he battled King Hulk... again this could be poor art work.

Actually that's incorrect, reread the ark again

Read when Iron Man fought the Collective in space 😬

Reduce his size which was pretty clear as Iron Man was the same size as the Sentry and the Collective when they fought in space. Iron Man was even rocking the Collective with blasts.