Sentry vs Alpha Flight

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Accusing me of ignoring Alpha Flight's consistently high feats and focusing only on their low feats and then turning right around in the next post and ignoring Sentry's consistently high feats and focusing only on Sentry's low feats yourself? Congratulations.

My excuse was that I was comparing side-to-side performances. Alpha Flight was raped by the same foe that Sentry was able to go toe-to-toe with. And Alpha Flight jobbed to a few X-Men and a depowered Juggernaut, which World War Hulk rapestomped, who in turn was matched by Sentry. What's your excuse?

and you missed the point, because your just fixating on the low showings even though it literally contradicts years and years of showings and on-panel feats. I'm not ignoring his high showings, but AF shows > Sentry's showing by quite a margin and they have far more showings that valdiate other showings.

Alpha Flight was rapped off-panel, so we don't know what happened and they were taken off guard as we see by their comments when the Collective stopped. Then your using when Sentry fought the Collective which was very breif and really didn't show anything until Sentry got btr. Then later Iron Man is taking on the Collective one on one and then Sentry reappears and they both fight the Collective and Iron Man rocked the Collective multiple times. Then your ignoring the context behind the x-men showings, as most were literally attacked from behind and apparently one hit by your logic equals a stomp. Silly and don't use ABC logic

Originally posted by tkitna
I'm not trying to get a rise out of you. I was just saying that the two examples you were submitting werent that impressive. I havent followed Alpha Flight since I collected the first 10 or so from their original series. Here I thought Guardian was way, way more than I remembered with him taking on Galactus and so forth and from the scans, he isnt. You had me thinking he was uber or something and that doesnt seem to be the case. I dont think he has anything for Sentry actually.

and your completly wrong, Guardian was built to take on Galactus and in one-shot took him down when other "heralds" couldn't take him down. Even Galactus right after knew he was powerful as he powered his tech. Also he isn't uber? Look at his feats

Originally posted by tkitna
Sasquatch was talking to God when he came to and by the looks of the scan, did not want anymore of Juggernaut at the time. And yes, I realize that sasquatch is not a factor against the Sentry.

Ummm...what? Your joking right? Hell Walter even came back after that punch and went shot for shot and left juggernaut a mangled mess. He has even gone against people far stronger then depowered Jugz and wasn't "talking to God"

Originally posted by tkitna

If Snowbird resorts to becoming a Great Beast, he would lose. There I admitted it, but she could get speedblitzed before she turned too. How often does Snowbird resort to turning into one of the great beasts? I'm just curious as I dont know. Was it more than the one time. Hell with that power, Alpha Flight should never lose to anybody period.

quite abit actually, she even turned into Tanaraq against savage Hulk, but at the time unknown to her she could only take Sasquatch form as her parents took away her god powers and made her mortal. She turned into Tanaraq to battle Pestilence a few times, and turned into Tanaraq to even "kill" tanaraq. She wouldn't get speedblitzed as AF has multple members that can go lightspeed. By their feats, they really shouldn't

Originally posted by tkitna

The CAP robot was pretty stout. Was anybody else doing anything to it? The Chrysler Building? Come on man, dont resort to that garbage. Teenage Namor? I keep seeing you mention this. Is this the Invaders/Avengers story where they each punched each other once? I know you dont really think any incarnation of Namor would beat Sentry. Ms. Marvel sucker punched him. So what. Ms. Marvel knows what the deal is. When shit hits the fan, she sends Bob. Iron Fist easily dodged his blows. How long do you think that would have lasted if Sentry was pissed? Now Iron Fist has a chance of beating Sentry? Please. Your just upset using these examples.

and? apparently the level people on this board make him he should have had no trouble. Yet low showings that are completly silly for AF are accepted in this thread. you don't see the bias? No they hit each more then that, but Namor was none the worse for wear as he clashed with Ares and threw an axe into Iron Man's armor. How long? who knows, as IF dodged his attack pretty easily. Sentry really doesn't have any fighting speed feats and really hasn't speedblitzed anyone so why would he do it here?Yeah Ms.Marvel cheapshotted him, so did the Collective with AF yet no one seems to care. Even Iron Man called him basically a child and really isn't a great hero with his statements, and in the same issue Sentry kept making mistakes and saying "whoops"

^ The fact that you're actually trying to justify your use of Sentry's low feats while holding me to task for using Alpha Flight's jobbing instances in side-by-side comparisons is utterly laughable.

Teen Namor and Sentry attacked each other? Teen Namor seemed none the worse for wear? Funny. The Collective and Sentry attacked each other. Sentry seemed none the worse for wear. Alpha Flight on the other hand got anally raped.

Iron Fist dodged Sentry's attack easily? That means Alpha Flight could dodge Sentry easily? Like they dodged depowered, dearmored Juggernaut manhandling their enhanced butts like they were blowup sex dolls? Your double-standards are painful. The fact that Alpha Flight are your favorite characters is no excuse for the rampant hypocrisy.

Sentry took on the same exact foe that raped Alpha Flight in the prior issue. If Alpha Flight took on the same exact foe that raped Sentry, you'd happily use it. I would give more credit to Alpha Flight if I wasn't so busy criticizing your flawed logic. Equivocating about the circumstances, making excuses for Alpha Flight and using double-standards isn't helping your case at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The fact that you're actually trying to justify your use of Sentry's low feats while holding me to task for using Alpha Flight's jobbing instances in side-by-side comparisons is utterly laughable.

Teen Namor and Sentry attacked each other? Teen Namor seemed none the worse for wear? Funny. The Collective and Sentry attacked each other. Sentry seemed none the worse for wear. Alpha Flight on the other hand got anally raped.

Iron Fist dodged Sentry's attack easily? That means Alpha Flight could dodge Sentry easily? Like they dodged depowered, dearmored Juggernaut manhandling their enhanced butts like they were blowup sex dolls? Your double-standards are painful. The fact that Alpha Flight are your favorite characters is no excuse for the rampant hypocrisy.

Sentry took on the same exact foe that raped Alpha Flight in the prior issue. If Alpha Flight took on the same exact foe that raped Sentry, you'd happily use it. I would give more credit to Alpha Flight if I wasn't so busy criticizing your flawed logic. Equivocating about the circumstances, making excuses for Alpha Flight and using double-standards isn't helping your case at all.

Ummm...no, the differences is Alpha Flight has years and years of showings that contradict those two other showings. While Sentry doesn't, so you tend to take 2 showings over 50 and ignore the context in those 2 other showings. Now that's laughable

How do you know the Collective was none the worse for wear? Except we actually saw those fights on-panel, and we know for a fact more went on in the AF VS. C fight through various flashbacks and handbook entries. Yet you seem to be on the case nothing happened and it was a complete utter rape. When we even know the Collective actually used multiple powers to fight AF, but can the Sentry make the same claim? No. Was Sentry ready to fight the Collective? Yes, and now can AF make the same claim? No.

Sure why not, and it's not like when JUGZ fought them they were fighting with their whole powerset. Seriosuly do you not get the sarcasm? You seem to take one thing and ignore it for the other and then call me biased even though I'm using YOUR logic. I'm basically repeating what your saying as your just using those low showings while not even addressing the high ones.

Took on the foe and literally did NOTHING, he was quickly swatted away. How is it flawed logic where the fight happened off-panel AF showed they wern;t looking for a fight and even later Iron Man rocked Collective not once but multiple times and some how say they wern't taken off guard.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and? apparently the level people on this board make him he should have had no trouble. Yet low showings that are completly silly for AF are accepted in this thread. you don't see the bias?

Hey I agree about the CAP robot. It was a silly story to begin with and the writer should be slapped. I'm not here trying to point out low feats and high feats. I just said that your examples werent the most convincing to me. I'm sure there are other Alpha Flight stories that would better convey their strengths then those already suggested.

No they hit each more then that, but Namor was none the worse for wear as he clashed with Ares and threw an axe into Iron Man's armor.

Do we have different books? I only saw two punches thrown from both of them. Do you really think that Namor (teenage or not) would have a shot against Sentry?

How long? who knows, as IF dodged his attack pretty easily. Sentry really doesn't have any fighting speed feats and really hasn't speedblitzed anyone so why would he do it here?

Iron Fist would have a city block thrown on him if Bob was serious. Also, tell Atuma how Sentry has no speed attacks.
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ts010067bf.jpg

I also wonder why nobody ever mentions how Wolverine (one of Marvels greatest H2H fighters) couldnt even begin to get one shot in on Bob when they fought. Not one.

Yeah Ms.Marvel cheapshotted him, so did the Collective with AF yet no one seems to care.

To be honest, i'm not on the Collective/Sentry bandwagon here. I'm not real confident that Bob would have came out of that fight on top if it had continued.

Even Iron Man called him basically a child and really isn't a great hero with his statements, and in the same issue Sentry kept making mistakes and saying "whoops"

And yet Reed Richards declared the Sentry the greatest hero the world has ever known (in front of Thor). 😉

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummm...no, the differences is Alpha Flight has years and years of showings that contradict those two other showings. While Sentry doesn't, so you tend to take 2 showings over 50 and ignore the context in those 2 other showings. Now that's laughable

How do you know the Collective was none the worse for wear? Except we actually saw those fights on-panel, and we know for a fact more went on in the AF VS. C fight through various flashbacks and handbook entries. Yet you seem to be on the case nothing happened and it was a complete utter rape. When we even know the Collective actually used multiple powers to fight AF, but can the Sentry make the same claim? No. Was Sentry ready to fight the Collective? Yes, and now can AF make the same claim? No.

Sure why not, and it's not like when JUGZ fought them they were fighting with their whole powerset. Seriosuly do you not get the sarcasm? You seem to take one thing and ignore it for the other and then call me biased even though I'm using YOUR logic. I'm basically repeating what your saying as your just using those low showings while not even addressing the high ones.

Took on the foe and literally did NOTHING, he was quickly swatted away. How is it flawed logic where the fight happened off-panel AF showed they wern;t looking for a fight and even later Iron Man rocked Collective not once but multiple times and some how say they wern't taken off guard.

You think getting raped by the Collective is a low feat. I don't. He was the sum total of millions of mutant signatures. Before the Collective was ever actualized on a comic book, any comic fan would have considered such a theoretical foe as nothing short of formidable. Fact is, it's the only foe that both Alpha Flight and Sentry actually fought and that's more than enough reason to compare their performances. Alpha Flight was murdered in less than a minute. Sentry actually managed to BFR him and go toe-to-toe. Do the math.

Originally posted by tkitna
Hey I agree about the CAP robot. It was a silly story to begin with and the writer should be slapped. I'm not here trying to point out low feats and high feats. I just said that your examples werent the most convincing to me. I'm sure there are other Alpha Flight stories that would better convey their strengths then those already suggested.

I know and the reason I was doing it was using OneDumbGo's logic using just those two low showings which contradicted many many showings and basically ignored who they are and how their powers work.

Originally posted by tkitna

Do we have different books? I only saw two punches thrown from both of them. Do you really think that Namor (teenage or not) would have a shot against Sentry?

I could be wrong, but I could have swore there was more then 2. Also again using Dumb's logic one hit equals a stomp (not kidding). No, by all accounts he should lose but even still going toe to toe with Sentry even for a short period shows people somewhat in Namor's class could repeat the same. So Sentry winning in a blowout here doesn't make much sense.

Originally posted by tkitna

Iron Fist would have a city block thrown on him if Bob was serious. Also, tell Atuma how Sentry has no speed attacks.
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ts010067bf.jpg

I also wonder why nobody ever mentions how Wolverine (one of Marvels greatest H2H fighters) couldnt even begin to get one shot in on Bob when they fought. Not one.

Most definetly, IF would get destroyed but Ondumbgo is merely using just those low showings which I find incorrect and then he calls me biased.

I actual forgot about Attuma, that was way back in Sentry #1 v.2

Indeed another contradiction

Originally posted by tkitna

To be honest, i'm not on the Collective/Sentry bandwagon here. I'm not real confident that Bob would have came out of that fight on top if it had continued.

Thank you some people on this board make it the be all be all feat

Originally posted by tkitna

And yet Reed Richards declared the Sentry the greatest hero the world has ever know (in front of Thor). 😉

Yeah and to this day hasn't proved it

EDIT: Perhaps in his next mini

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why would I even bother about your interpetations of Alpha Flight's "high" showings? I already dealt with the very first one you rattled off with your list. When you're ready to give Guardian sole credit for beating a weakened Galactus whose powers weren't working and was being assaulted by Alpha Flight and Avengers, you really think I can expect any better from any of your other citations? Especially when you honestly compare my use of two drawn out battles illustrated in Uncanny X-Men to your use of a single panel of Iron Fist dodging Sentry? Your imitating my logic? Please. We argued about Alpha Flight jobbing to the X-Men and a depowered Juggernaut. All you're doing is selectively pulling out single panels of Sentry, labelling them as embarassing and bashing the character.

You think getting raped by the Collective is a low feat. I don't. He was the sum total of millions of mutant signatures. Before the Collective was ever actualized on a comic book, any comic fan would have considered such a theoretical foe as nothing short of formidable. Fact is, it's the only foe that both Alpha Flight and Sentry actually fought and that's more than enough reason to compare their performances. Alpha Flight was murdered in less than a minute. Sentry actually managed to BFR him and go toe-to-toe. Do the math.

Lulz, yeah and you used faulty logic in doing so and notice how multiple times I even explained what happened him being weakened and being attacked you seem to keep acting like I have been ignoring it, when multiple times I have mentioned all of that before? Then you posted scans of Galactus getting hurt, nothing serious and nothing that actually caused lasting damage and the one scan you should have posted....you didn't. It showed Guardian taking him down in one-shot, and was validated by Quasar, HIS energy not anyone elses was messing with Galactus' internal energy and that's how he was brought down. Not by blasting him in the mouth or hitting him in the face, but messing with his internal energy. Like I said you missed the point, I'm using your logic brining up those examples.

It's a low feat when Iron Man can give the Collective a sporting fight, but apparently by what you say they got raped and that's that. Except he didn't really show anything all that special, and like I said insigificant characters were rocking the Collective. Except we didn't actually SEE their fight now did we? So how can we compare something when we don't know how one thing ended? In less then a minute? prove it. Sentry BFR him (threw him in the sun) when he was weakened and was helped by the New Avengers 😬

^ I don't care for folks like you inserting hidden motives to my posts or putting words into my mouth. I posted the scans of the other folks fighting Galactus because I said that they were "putting a hurtin on Galactus" and you denied they did. Why would I then turn around and post a scan of Guardian doing his thing when it had nothing to do with the actual issue we were disputing? Same thing where I kept asking you to acknowledge that Galactus' powers were not working. I posted that scan for that specific reason. You act like I'm trying to hide the fact that Guardian got the last blow on Galactus. Please. Using your conspiracy theory style of insinuations, I could rightly turn around and accuse you of not mentioning that Galactus was attacked by Alpha Flight and the Avengers and his powers didn't work. And that you're not doing so is proof you were hiding those facts and I "exposed" you and brought it out to light for everyone else to see.

But you see, gloating over such a ridiculous idea would be unflattering and plain stupid. Exactly the way your baseless insinuations reflect on you. Your debating turned from interesting/civil to laughable/bellicose. You act like you're turning my logic against me when that's what I did to you from the start. You were the one who started this lowballing by gloating about Sentry getting knocked out by Ms. Marvel back on page 2 when I first posted:

Originally posted by -K-M-
Sentry got rocked by an amped up Ms.Marvel, so why people think Sentry is unbeatable is beyond me.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I don't care for folks like you inserting hidden motives to my posts or putting words into my mouth. I posted the scans of the other folks fighting Galactus because I said that they were "putting a hurtin on Galactus" and you denied they did. Why would I then turn around and post a scan of Guardian doing his thing when it had nothing to do with the actual issue we were disputing? Same thing where I kept asking you to acknowledge that Galactus' powers were not working. I posted that scan for that specific reason. You act like I'm trying to hide the fact that Guardian got the last blow on Galactus. Please. Using your conspiracy theory style of insinuations, I could rightly turn around and accuse you of not mentioning that Galactus was attacked by Alpha Flight and the Avengers and his powers didn't work. And that you're not doing so is proof you were hiding those facts and I "exposed" you and brought it out to light for everyone else to see.

But you see, gloating over such a ridiculous idea would be unflattering and plain stupid. Exactly the way your baseless insinuations reflect on you. Your debating turned from interesting/civil to laughable/bellicose. You act like you're turning my logic against me when that's what I did to you from the start. You were the one who started this lowballing by gloating about Sentry getting knocked out by Ms. Marvel back on page 2 when I first posted:

Like I said, your specious bravado does nothing to change that fact or the fact that nobody else agrees with you on the Guardian/Galactus issue or the Alpha Flight/depowered Juggs fights. Nuff said.

Read my post again, as I said show me where any one else even came close to going anything remotely close to the damage output of Guardian? You posted scans of Galactus not even really getting hurt, or really wasn't suffering and the REAL REASON he was taken down which was backed by Quasar...you didn't post it. The team never even came close to doing any lasting damge what's so ever. I even multiple times said Galactus's powers wern't working why do you keep missing the entire point of the feat? Other herald type characters couldn't do what Guardian did to the weakened Galactus in ONE-SHOT. Them working together didn't even come close to the damage Guardian did, but you merely brush it a side. Ummm...what? right off the bat I said Galactus was weakened and the feat was the other people working together couldn't do what Guardian did. It didn't even have to be Galactus, it could have been some other character the feat is Guardian did what the team couldn't do and he did it with ease and with one-shot. That's the feat as I literally have said multiple times in this thread, yet you can't seem to grasp it.

Lulz, coming from the guy who said one hit equals a stomp and making claims of a fight we didn't even see. Yeah silly me for making baseless insinuations, oh the irony. Actually I am, as your the one using the X-Men feats even though it completly contradict years and years and years of comics. Yet apparently that doesn't matter, and you even ignored the context of those low showings. 😬

Nobody? You should see other threads were it was brought up. Seriously do a search. Then again wern't you the guy that said classic Rogue could replicate Superman Prime feat in Countdown?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Read my post again, as I said show me where any one else even came close to going anything remotely close to the damage output of Guardian? You posted scans of Galactus not even really getting hurt, or really wasn't suffering and the REAL REASON he was taken down which was backed by Quasar...you didn't post it. The team never even came close to doing any lasting damge what's so ever. I even multiple times said Galactus's powers wern't working why do you keep missing the entire point of the feat? Other herald type characters couldn't do what Guardian did to the weakened Galactus in ONE-SHOT. Them working together didn't even come close to the damage Guardian did, but you merely brush it a side. Ummm...what? right off the bat I said Galactus was weakened and the feat was the other people working together couldn't do what Guardian did. It didn't even have to be Galactus, it could have been some other character the feat is Guardian did what the team couldn't do and he did it with ease and with one-shot. That's the feat as I literally have said multiple times in this thread, yet you can't seem to grasp it.

Lulz, coming from the guy who said one hit equals a stomp and making claims of a fight we didn't even see. Yeah silly me for making baseless insinuations, oh the irony. Actually I am, as your the one using the X-Men feats even though it completly contradict years and years and years of comics. Yet apparently that doesn't matter, and you even ignored the context of those low showings. 😬

Nobody? You should see other threads were it was brought up. Seriously do a search. Then again wern't you the guy that said classic Rogue could replicate Superman Prime feat in Countdown?

I dunno... is he being tickled here in this scan:

Or in this scan where Hercules whacks him in the face and Kismet blasts him in the friggin mouth? Does he look like he's happy:

Are you forgetting the fact that Quasar sums up the toppling of Galactus as, "... he couldn't stand up to us for long," which suggests a group effort:

Hell... the very fact that Galactus resorts to threatening Vindicator to stop their combined attack suggests that he was desperate and thus was being hurt. Oh wait, we don't even have to rely on logic, we can just read what Galactus himself says, "Cease your attack Terrans, or this woman dies. This is not the way of Galactus, but my options have run out."

Of course Guardian got the last attack in and that's the shot that put him down. But the infantile way you characterize the entire situation as the others not being able to faze him and Guardian was the only one who could affect him is utterly absurd. I thought Thanos fanboyism was bad, apparently it doesn't hold up a candle to Alpha Flight fanboyism. Y'know, I won't convince you personally that the others helped, but even in your mind, you need to realize something. Hurting Galactus when he's weak is not a big deal. A single Mjolnir throw caused Galactus to retreat and his powers actually worked back then. So whether or not Guardian did topple Galactus all on his own isn't something to give him a parade for.

As for the Rogue = Superman Prime in Countdown... I have no idea what you're talking about. I said Black Adam's rampage in World War III was comparable to suited Superman Prime's rampage in Sinestro Corps War. Don't really know what you're referring to.

Because that's what was said, because the reason Galactus was taken down was messing with his internal energy which Quasar mentioned was key thanks to Guardian. Did anyone else even come close to replicate that feat? No, and you even post Hercules smacking him which is laughable if you think that's comparable. Also later Galactus right after gets Guardian to power his tech as he says he is the only one who can do it..that's another feat the other team couldn't do. Once again your completly missing the point, as even in this thread I said if Galactus DID have his powers he would destroy Guardian. Yet your not getting why the feat is impressive. Also even I said above show me where any of them even come close to doing the damage Guardian did. You didn't...again. 😬

Once again how many times have I said it? I even said in above, defeating the weakened Galactus is not the main feat it's Guardian putting Galactus down when the team working together couldn't do what he did in just one-shot. How are you not getting this? Galactus was MOST DEFINETLY WEAKENED, that has been said many many many times, but your completly missing the point of the feat.

Incorrect again, the team was attacking together as they said was to keep him off-balanced so he couldn't figure out why his powers wern't working.

^ No you missed the god damn point with your silly strawman arguments. You characterize the team's assault as if it barely affected Galactus when their words, the art, Galactus' reactions and Galactus' use of hostage-taking all points otherwise. You have no idea whether or not Guardian's finishing attack did more or less damage than the previous combined assault. No proof whatsoever. Only conclusory logic. Show me proof that guardian did more damage than all the others. As it stands you could read it that way, it is plausible. but guess what? You could also read it in such a way that their combined did most, if not all the work and weakened galactus to such a desperate degree that he had to resort to taking Vindicator hostage and Guardian simply capitalized on that weakness. Fact is, there are more reasons that suggest the later than the former, i.e. the dialogue, Galactus' depicted reactions and his desperate use of histage-taking. You have absolutely no proof of what you're saying and are incorrigible. Nuff said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No you missed the god damn point with your silly strawman arguments. You characterize the team's assault as if it barely affected Galactus when their words, the art, Galactus' reactions and Galactus' use of hostage-taking all points otherwise. You have no idea whether or not Guardian's finishing attack did more or less damage than the previous combined assault. No proof whatsoever. Only conclusory logic. Show me proof that guardian did more damage than all the others. As it stands you could read it that way, it is plausible. but guess what? You could also read it in such a way that their combined did most, if not all the work and weakened galactus to such a desperate degree that he had to resort to taking Vindicator hostage and Guardian simply capitalized on that weakness. Fact is, there are more reasons that suggest the later than the former, i.e. the dialogue, Galactus' depicted reactions and his desperate use of histage-taking. You have absolutely no proof of what you're saying and are incorrigible. Nuff said.

Yeah and they really didn't affect him that much and no again multiple times i literally said show me where they did anything even close to what Guardian did. I said it multiple times in this thread, multiple. Actually I do know for a fact as it actually DID put him down and down for good, and Quasar mentioned it was Guardian's specific energy that messed with his energy. 😬 The same energy Galactus got him to power his tech as only he could do it. He even took Vindicator as a hostage noted by her that they were attacking him keeping him off balance so he wouldn't know why his powers wern;t working. Soon as when she said that she grabbed and Galactus commented that was a good tactic, but now Galactus had time to "breath". No proof? Lulz, Galactus was knocked down and out by Guardian's attack no one else, and direct quotes by Quasar saying specifically his energy was messing with him, and even later Galactus got him to power his tech as even Quasar, Sersi, Her, etc. couldn't do it. Like are you serious?

^ Apparently not as serious as you are. Agree to disagree. Sharply. As it is, we're both wasting our breath on each other. This panel among all the other pages of them assaulting Galactus and knocking him over is all I need to know that it was a group effort, combined with Galactus being weakened, his powers not working in that dimension and Guardian's specifically attuned attack:

Your right, we will just leave it at that as were going in circles