Originally posted by ESB -1138Most of the time they don't read up on the FF characters opponenets. The just see the FF characters name on the thread and hop in say they win cuz thier from FF7.
True...so true. I really liked Sephiroth then I came to KMC and that killed him. Oh well. I still like how the FF7 fanboys keep calling Demetri a "simple vampire" and "Count Chocula Clone." That makes me doubt they ever even played any Darkstalker game...or even read up on these guys.
A lot of the cats cheer leadin for the FF7 guys have never even played FF7 before or don't understand it.
I mean Seph a match for Lord of Nightmares, c'mon...seriously.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No it doesnt, it simply means shes able to A: do it to her own reality, time and perception, thus meaning it hyperbole if you think she could do the same to every reality/dimension that are diffrent to the pathetic FF verse, for example the DS verse and second compressing it simpy means pushing something into a smaller space than it should be in, that doesnt mean she controls it or can do what she wants.Either way, PIS or not, she was defeated by something pathetic, you need to start taking the bad things some come with a ridiculous universe such as the power of friendship doing something, as well as the things that back you up, like Sephiroths powerful willpower that is also ridiculous, but I dont see you calling Sephiroths willpower BS when it suits you.
No, see you look into things way to much to try to downplay characters you don't like, on KMC battles, both characters retain their powers unless stated otherwise by the creators, just because Mad Jim Jaspers warps reality in the Marvel universe, it doesn't mean he'll be powerless if he's battling an opponent from a different universe.
If Ultimecia has power over space,time,reality, she still gets it even if she's battling someone from a different universe, and Sephiroth did infact stop Holy and it is infact a feat, just because it has no "density" it doesn't mean its easy to hold, Holy was stated to be a energy force powerful enough to destroy everything on Gaia, if a force pushes against TK hard enough, itll break through, Sephiroth held it for months, going by your logic a nuclear blast should be easy to hold with TK.
If you think about it, it's you has the ridiculous logic, you try to claim Kain can rip souls from any character on KMC like Pyron, when
1. his soul rip only worked on common grunts, and not tougher opponents(yet you try to play it off as "just gameplay"😉
2. he's never used it in the canon storyline
3. it was never seen again after the first game
4. it was an optional spell
5. he supposedly evolved and got more powerful, yet why is he unable to use this move anymore?
And yet you try to play on this spell to win your debates on Kain vs.
Originally posted by Terryc250
No, see you look into things way to much to try to downplay characters you don't like, on KMC battles, both characters retain their powers unless stated otherwise by the creators, just because Mad Jim Jaspers warps reality in the Marvel universe, it doesn't mean he'll be powerless if he's battling an opponent from a different universe.If Ultimecia has power over space,time,reality, she still gets it even if she's battling someone from a different universe, and Sephiroth did infact stop Holy and it is infact a feat, just because it has no "density" it doesn't mean its easy to hold, Holy was stated to be a energy force powerful enough to destroy everything on Gaia, if a force pushes against TK hard enough, itll break through, Sephiroth held it for months, going by your logic a nuclear blast should be easy to hold with TK.
If you think about it, it's you has the ridiculous logic, you try to claim Kain can rip souls from any character on KMC like Pyron, when
1. his soul rip only worked on common grunts, and not tougher opponents(yet you try to play it off as "just gameplay"😉
2. he's never used it in the canon storyline
3. it was never seen again after the first game
4. it was an optional spell
5. he supposedly evolved and got more powerful, yet why is he unable to use this move anymore?And yet you try to play on this spell to win your debates on Kain vs.
No ime not saying that, ime simply saying that just because she does it to one reality doesnt mean she does it to all, do you think she could simply compress the whole reality of the Marvel unvierse then? because thats what it sounds like your saying, that you think she could compress all and any reality, sure she can use her powers, but guessing she can do it to any reality since the reality itself is at question is assumption.
No because a nuclear blast is completly diffrent, first its got radiation particles, forcewave, and its an AOE, not an object you can stop, Holy is nothing to do with a blast wave or AOE damage at all until it hits, which ofc it didnt while Sephiroth stopped it, thus its potential energy is wasted if it is neither moving or exploding etc etc.
1. because it was gameplay, go figuire.. 😬
2.A lot of abilities in gaming are not using in the canon storyline, but the abilities excist in the game and are therefore canon, theres NO rules that state an ability has to be used in a cutscene to excist.
Also Kain has it in his canon script of what he says, he always says he gains the object as ive shown already, meaning its in the canon.
3. doesnt mean anything
4. its no more optional than half of Dantes abiltiies, infact its no more optional than God of wars abilties because half of the Blood omen powers are in your path, or you need them to get past a level, thus, you cant option not to get them unless ofcourse you dont intend on playing the game through and just quit after finding the spell.
5. He does evolve and get more powerful and second you dont now he is "unable", the developers simply dont allow him to use it in further games.
Not only tihs spell, he has many spells that are powerful against most foes that can completyl slaughter most game VS characters due to no soul resistances and others aside, if youve not got any soul resistance then you cant assume a character can do anything but die when its soul is ripped out.
All your points dont say anything againt me using the spell, its compeltly viable in-game ability like hundreds of others in gaming that can be used. Saying just because Kain doesnt use his soul spell in other games is like me saying Pyron doesnt have his world absorbtion because he apprently "cannot" do it to Earth when he comes across to fight on it and makes the robot things instead. ofc this is all BS because theres nothing to indicate he simply cant or to point to it, your simply trying to cover up your own weakness.
You still have not gone against your poor logic of beliving things are likely when they suit you, Sephiroth using his willpower for diffrent things, willpower, is just as ridiculous as a notion of friendship stopping an entity, yet ofcourse when a powerful entity you like is beaten by such, its a load of BS, but when a character you like, lets say Sephiroth does something ridiculous its all fine and dandy, can you possibly debate against this point or are you simply going to concede me as correct? because this is exactley what your doing.
Originally posted by HonkyTonkMan
Eww burning thought's alive still!!!
Still in love with Kain?
Wee trolling is still so common in Games VS
still trolling Fascistcru....I mean HonkyTonkMan
Okay I'm gonna be really frank here.
Why in the HELL is Fascist not banned yet? 😐
I mean REALLY.
He is so clearly trolling, it is just kinda sad.
I have never seen a troll try so hard, but just fail in the process.
Notice how I made like 10 or more points.
He addressed NONE of them.
We have never seen Seph's full power?
Dude...We haven't seen shit of Pyron's full power, and what is really sad is that by feats, Pyron 20% in the OVA...Probably the weakest form of Pyron, is much more powerful than Sephiroth.
Oh and BT, Pyron has never devoured an entire galaxy to my knowledge lol.
Unless you meant over time. He has done that.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No ime not saying that, ime simply saying that just because she does it to one reality doesnt mean she does it to all, do you think she could simply compress the whole reality of the Marvel unvierse then? because thats what it sounds like your saying, that you think she could compress all and any reality, sure she can use her powers, but guessing she can do it to any reality since the reality itself is at question is assumption.
However if we're doing a regular KMC battle, Time-Compressed Ultimecia(who has control over space,time) vs Jean Grey Phoenix, then they both retain their powers.
No because a nuclear blast is completly diffrent, first its got radiation particles, forcewave, and its an AOE, not an object you can stop, Holy is nothing to do with a blast wave or AOE damage at all until it hits, which ofc it didnt while Sephiroth stopped it, thus its potential energy is wasted if it is neither moving or exploding etc etc.
[quuote]
1. because it was gameplay, go figuire.. 😬 [/quote]
And its just that, gameplay, its like saying Sephiroth can use heartless angel on Pyron, then shoot a bolt and him, killing him.
2.A lot of abilities in gaming are not using in the canon storyline, but the abilities excist in the game and are therefore canon, theres NO rules that state an ability has to be used in a cutscene to excist.
Also Kain has it in his canon script of what he says, he always says he gains the object as ive shown already, meaning its in the canon.
4. its no more optional than half of Dantes abiltiies, infact its no more optional than God of wars abilties because half of the Blood omen powers are in your path, or you need them to get past a level, thus, you cant option not to get them unless ofcourse you dont intend on playing the game through and just quit after finding the spell.
Character abilities and optional spells are different, optional spells could be considered like materia, we don't debate Cloud having Lightning3 just because I got it when i was playing the game, character abilities that always appear in every sequal can be considered canon, optional spells that are never heard of, never used, in the next 5 sequals... well then its most likely that in the canon storyline, kain never acquired it
5. He does evolve and get more powerful and second you dont now he is "unable", the developers simply dont allow him to use it in further games.
Not only tihs spell, he has many spells that are powerful against most foes that can completyl slaughter most game VS characters due to no soul resistances and others aside, if youve not got any soul resistance then you cant assume a character can do anything but die when its soul is ripped out.
All your points dont say anything againt me using the spell, its compeltly viable in-game ability like hundreds of others in gaming that can be used. Saying just because Kain doesnt use his soul spell in other games is like me saying Pyron doesnt have his world absorbtion because he apprently "cannot" do it to Earth when he comes across to fight on it and makes the robot things instead. ofc this is all BS because theres nothing to indicate he simply cant or to point to it, your simply trying to cover up your own weakness.
You still have not gone against your poor logic of beliving things are likely when they suit you, Sephiroth using his willpower for diffrent things, willpower, is just as ridiculous as a notion of friendship stopping an entity, yet ofcourse when a powerful entity you like is beaten by such, its a load of BS, but when a character you like, lets say Sephiroth does something ridiculous its all fine and dandy, can you possibly debate against this point or are you simply going to concede me as correct? because this is exactley what your doing.
Originally posted by Terryc250
If its Time-Compressed Ultimecia who has power over reality,space and time, then yes she does have retain her powers in the KMC battle, even when battling a marvel character. If its just regular Ultimecia trying to attain time-compression in the marvel universe then no, because it possibly work different in a different universe.However if we're doing a regular KMC battle, Time-Compressed Ultimecia(who has control over space,time) vs Jean Grey Phoenix, then they both retain their powers.
It has harmful destructive particles, and yes it can be stopped if the TK is powerful enough, Holy is a destructive powerful energy wave, its speed is just as fast, or even faster then an explosion, if TK is powerful enough, it can contain an explosion and protect everyone on the outside of the TK, Holy is a destructive powerful energy wave, when it was summoned it got stopped in its tracks by Sephiroths willpower, when Sephiroth was gone, it shot out, went towards Meteor and got there in seconds.
1. because it was gameplay, go figuire.. 😬
And its just that, gameplay, its like saying Sephiroth can use heartless angel on Pyron, then shoot a bolt and him, killing him.If the ability keeps appearing again in equals then its most likely canon, however if its an optional spell, and it was never heard of again in LoK: SR, LoK: SR2, BO2, Defiance, or any other LoK sequal, chances are he never attained it in the canon storyline, so then where is it? Don't reply saying something along the lines of "He has it, hes just hiding it" or "He doesn't use it or else it'll make the game too easy for you" there were plenty of opportunities where Soul Ripping would've been useful for Kain, but i wonder why he doesn't use it?
Thats just as canon as buying materia and Cloud saying "I have attained 'Lightning3'" then giving a description of it
Yeah those can be considered canon, the spells that you MUST get, however soul rip wasn't one of them.
Character abilities and optional spells are different, optional spells could be considered like materia, we don't debate Cloud having Lightning3 just because I got it when i was playing the game, character abilities that always appear in every sequal can be considered canon, optional spells that are never heard of, never used, in the next 5 sequals... well then its most likely that in the canon storyline, kain never acquired it
gee i wonder why, he gets more powerful yet he can't use his most powerful magic, most likely because kain never acquired that spell in the first place, "the developers simply don't allow him to use it" makes no sense, does kain handicap himself because hes oh so powerful?
Riiight, just because kain can soul rip weak foes and not even the tougher ones, now he can all of a sudden soul rip beings like Pyron and beings who are way above LoK characters, just like you said, you need to start taking the bad things with your ridiculous logic.
No see, because Pyron infact has absorbed planets, its in his story, didn't he absorb his own planet when he evolved enough? But anyway, who has Kain soul ripped? Any particular person? Anyone even worth mentioning? Or anyone at all?
Because the thing is, Sephiroth infact DID stop Holy, its in the canon storyline, and holy was stated to be the antithesis of Meteor, and could destroy everything, its you who is trying to overthink things, and pick at every little thing, trying to downplay a character you don't like, its like if a charatcer you don't like cut a building in half, you would be like "well that building has hollow spots in it, so lets take off alot of weight, now if we add all the non-hollow parts of the building, itll add up to not much weight" yet when a character you like does something unimpressive, you try your best to make it look more then it is, like Kain killing common weak foes, and unable to use the spell against tougher foes, now all of a sudden he can use it against beings like Pyron, its quite funny.
She can retain as many powers as she wants, ime not debating her losing her powers, ime debating her being ableto do it to every entity simply because you assume she can since she can beat Squall and the FF universe using it, which ofc she did fail at as well so there you have it, but if you say that she could reality manip any being even say, LT just because she controls reality you would be using a no limit fallacy because manipulating reality depends on the reality and you still have not shown me her even manipulating reality. Sounds like one of those hyperbole moments to me.
Its not,its a big fat orblike thing itsnot a blast wave of energy like a nuclear explosion is...show me Holy as a blast wave before Sephiroth stops it then....from whta ive seen its nothing like a nuclear blast wave.
problem is, the spell is described in the games storyline when Kain speaks of it, the spell is described as what its doing, what your describing is the in-gameplay power of heartless angel, simply a one hit kill move, wheras in LOK, it actually tells you what the move is doing. If i had based my argument on the soul rip one hit killing pyron around it destroying vampires in gameplay, then I would be just as wrong as the example you brought up about heartless angel, thing is, ime not, ime basing it off the ability itself, what it actually does and its canon descriptions of the ability.
problem is all of that rubbish doesnt have a rule and the spell being optional still doesnt mean anything at all since its still an ability you gain as I said, in DMC a lot of the abilities are optionla but their still canon abilities, why do you keep bringing materia in this debate, materia is nothing like LOK spells because A: their simply items that you gain like an item drop in most RPG games and you can use their power on almost any character so imediatley making them items more alike to DMC holy waters, wheras Kains spelsl are unique to him and abilities he gains along his Journey, and as ive said as youve prob ignored, their even more canon than DMC due to the fact A: he has in story script of it, its not simply like cloud saying "ive acquired lightning", its an actual story script and either way you fail imediatley after saying buying materia, thats an other element of not unique to the character and even more optional,but as for storyline words for example spirit death is:
"'Tis a spell worthy of the Necromancer himself. This allows me to dissect a creature's soul from its vessel of flesh. For these poor wretches, only oblivion awaits."
Thats not a gameplay notification, its a story script.
If its not shown in the other games its because the developers dont want players using it in the gmae, but its gained exacltey the same way as the "mist" spell and thats still in the game, its simply a developers choice, not a storyline choice, in the storyline Kain gains it, its a canon ability jsut like any other unique character ability in games and therefore it would take a canon event to remove the spell.
No its not likely at all, since hte player only plays as Kain in 3 of those sequels so no and second its nothing like materia as I stated above so all this part of your argument falls flat on its face. And wtf are you talking about, when I was playing through the game of DMC I acquired the shotgun in DMC 3, is the Shotgun uncanon? no its not, its in the game, its a canon weapon/ability you seem to be struggling with whats actually canon or not, another example, I was playing the game GOW1 when i came across the Hades shrine and gained hades army, that ability is still a canon ability Kratos gets on his travels.
Yes it makes perfect sense, if the Developrs dont want Kain to have access to certain spells simply because they want a diffrent spell set or something then they can stop the palyer form using it, its that simple....
Kain can rip all foes apart from bosses, all foes include demons, humans and vampires alike, which fyi, most of the bosses are all human, this is where you argument falls flat on its face again because your using gameplay limits and not storyline, which is probably another reason why you have difficulty understanding storyline and canon abilities. Also youve come across a massive paradox in your logic here, youve just said characters way above LOK characters yet pyron being able to be destroyed by his soul being ripped out which he has no defence against imedialtey makes Kain a LOK above Pyron, thus your point is broken, and second, you fail at using my words againt me, simply because theres nothing in your point that contradicts my logic at all especially after your broken points.
Kain gains his spell in the story, its in his script as I said above, does Cloud have his voice acter (does Cloud even speak with a voice acter?) speak in character when he gains materia, or do you get the little blue screen and white writing simply telling youve acquired it, theres a big diffrence that you need to understand between storyline script and gameplay affermitives.
Becuase half the buildings that are cut do have a lot of hollow spots, bad weaknesses, ime clever enough to point them out and so I can easily use it to my advantage but you made this long post for nothing, yes sephiroth DID stop Holy, and the part of the argument where you fail is that I can counter that with Squall and friends DID stop Ultemacia with friendship, as I said, rediculous logic from both sides, take all of it, or none at all, picking and choosing what you like is not the way it works ime afraid.
no, were argueing whats canon and whats not, but most of all the main idea behind the argument is how ridiculous rubbish like Sephiroth being able to stop objects with willpower is just as ridiculous as friendship defeating Ultimecia, how stupid events happen on both Terry side AND those sides he doesnt like.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I think we should just pretend Disc 4 of FFVIII is noncanon and say Squall and friends were killed by a raging army of Tonberries.
I like that idea. In fact let's go ahead and say FFVIII ended after disc 2 with the defeat of Edea and everyone was killed by a raging army of Tonberries.