Originally posted by Enyalus
I'd still say Makashi is weak against Djem So, considering it isn't designed to combat heavier and direct blows of the later styles (given that Form II was around long before Form V).Anyone else agree?
No.
Makashi is the ultimate dueling form. On paper, you pit a Makashi duelist versus a Djem So duelist, the Makashi duelist will come out ahead.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Ultimate dueling form for saber vs. saber combat, invented back when the only duelists were using Form I...which is the first form every padawon is taught.Wasn't ever designed to handle the style of Form VI or beyond.
Makashi has been cited by numerous sources to be the ultimate dueling form. Your syllogism is ridiculous. Djem So is taught at the Temple. If it were, on paper, better than Makashi, then it would be called the ultimate dueling form.
It's not. Deal with it.
Not really. My syllogism makes perfect sense. What wouldn't make sense is if Makashi is actually better at defending against a style that didn't even exist when created.
Makashi: Djem So would be like foil fencing: kendo.
Sure, the foil is more elegant, but if you're playing to kill, without a points system, kendo would simply overpower any defenses the foil fencer has.
You may in fact be correct, that Makashi is superior in 1 vs. 1 dueling when compared against the Djem So style. But if that's the case, it shouldn't be. The logic there makes no sense.
You're basing the outcome of one duel and expecting those of us to consider it the general rule? Your syllogism is ridiculous. The one wielding Makashi here was an eighty-three-year old aristocrat. The Djem So duelist? An ungodly man wielding prodigious physical strength and peerless reserves of Force energy.
Unless every Makashi duelist belongs in the nursing home and Djem So wielders will be Anakin-class padawans, your syllogism is RIDICULOUS.
Originally posted by Gideonnot necessarily... natural talent and instinct do play roles... and besides if that was the case Dooku destroys Anakin,Obi,qui-gon... all at once
No.Makashi is the ultimate dueling form. On paper, you pit a Makashi duelist versus a Djem So duelist, the Makashi duelist will come out ahead.
in a nutshell your argument is shallow... like 90's-current Teen movies and tv shows(0.5% exaggerated)
The problem lies with who we see using the forms imo. The most noteworthy Makashi duelist is Count Dooku, he is obviously not physically strong and it past his prime. Mean while Djem So has people that are Bane with the orbalisks, and Anakin "son of the force"(not to mention approaching his physical peak) skywalker. IMO the "smarter" duelists would makashi but the roided guys use djem so.
The only noteworthy example(that i know of) of a Djem so duelist beating a makashi duelist is Anaki vs Dooku. Anakin has virtually unlimited potentia and is pretty young and Dooku is a candidate for Alzheimer's
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
not necessarily... natural talent and instinct do play roles... and besides if that was the case Dooku destroys Anakin,Obi,qui-gon... all at once
Dooku would beat Obiwan or Qui-gon. Anakin has the advantage of being born with more potential/raw power than anyone else. Anakin is not a good example given how he is an abnormality.
You're basing the outcome of one duel and expecting those of us to consider it the general rule?
I wasn't basing my argument on any duel. I was using a priori reasoning. But the ROTS novel does lend weight to what I said. Anakin's strikes were simply too powerful for Makashi to handle.
Does anyone know of any Form II users beating Form V users? (Or even Form V users beating Form II users?) Maybe we should exclude Dooku, since he is, afterall, one of the greatest Jedi/Sith ever. Kind of an exception to the rule, rather than the standard.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The problem lies with who we see using the forms imo. The most noteworthy Makashi duelist is Count Dooku, he is obviously not physically strong and it past his prime. Mean while Djem So has people that are Bane with the orbalisks, and Anakin "son of the force"(not to mention approaching his physical peak) skywalker. IMO the "smarter" duelists would makashi but the roided guys use djem so.The only noteworthy example(that i know of) of a Djem so duelist beating a makashi duelist is Anaki vs Dooku.
Anakin has virtually unlimited potentia and is pretty young and Dooku is a candidate for Alzheimer's
Dooku would beat Obiwan or Qui-gon. Anakin has the advantage of being born with more potential/raw power than anyone else. Anakin is not a good example given how he is an abnormality. [/B]
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Malak does as far as muscles go..
wait he is a djem so user right looks like his style is based on strength and size oh and i forgot that other name for djem so... tell me NOW
Malak doesn't have a confirmed form but in the game he uses more of one handed form which is similar to makashi but that's still gameplay.