Obviously Makashi itself has no inherent weaknesses to other styles of combat, since it is the definitive blade-to-blade form, and it wasn't just "Dooku's Makashi << Anakin's Djem So," since Dooku is at the least proficient in all seven lightsaber forms - he teaches them to Grievous and the MagnaGuards. Anakin just beat him down. It's that simple. He physically overpowered him.
You can't have a definitive blade-to-blade form when five other lightsaber forms weren't invented at the time...that's what I'm attempting to get across.
That's like, I don't know, taking a gatling gun, which was the supreme weapon in it's day, and pitting it against an M-4 assault rifle...
Why did Dooku choose Makashi when he had mastered all the styles? Personal preference. It suited his style of flair, arrogance and elegance. Easy enough to understand.
Originally posted by Enyalusand he was past his youth makashi is not as physically demanding, help from the forcenot withstanding, its more accurate and precise and calculated
You can't have a definitive blade-to-blade form when five other lightsaber forms weren't invented at the time...that's what I'm attempting to get across.That's like, I don't know, taking a gatling gun, which was the supreme weapon in it's day, and pitting it against an M-4 assault rifle...
Why did Dooku choose Makashi when he had mastered all the styles? Personal preference. It suited his style of flair, arrogance and elegance. Easy enough to understand.
After Form I's proliferation as a lightsaber combat technique, Form II came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It was described as being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out, often wielding the blade one-handed for greater range of movement and fluidity. The form relied on parries, thrusts, and small, precise cuts—as opposed to the blocking and slashing of the other forms. Form II countered sun djem, the goal of early Form I masters, by being well trained in prevention of disarming and weapon destruction.
The opening stance for Makashi was a single-handed low guard, with the blade angled downward at the practitioner's side[1]. The formal salute that Dooku offered Yoda on Geonosis was a "Makashi salute", while a Makashi flourish consisted of drawing a rapid X in the air with the blade.[2]
Form II emphasized fluid motion and anticipation of a weapon being swung at its target, and so required very fluid movements of both the blade and the body.
Feints would also be commonly used to confuse or set-up their opponents for a trap, a tactic that Count Dooku commonly used in his duels during the Clone Wars.[3] Precise footwork and movements were required for maintaining proper distance from the opponent during defense and/or when moving in for an attack. The blade manipulation required for this form was very refined and required intense focus, such as Dooku's hurling objects at Anakin while using a one-handed bind to keep Obi-Wan at bay. Timing, accuracy, and skill, rather than strength, were relied on to defeat one's opponent, and with a skilled practitioner, the results were extremely potent.
Dooku using Makashi in a sparring match with Grievous.The footwork of Makashi practitioners followed a single line, front and back, shifting the feet to keep in perfect balance as the practitioner attacked and retreated. Makashi was a style based on balance, on back-and-forth charges, thrusts, and sudden retreats.[3] Elegance, gallantry, enchantment, finesse, artfulness, and economy were the core of Makashi. Dooku displayed this to the extreme during the duel aboard the Invisible Hand, using his footwork to evade Anakin and Obi-Wan so that he could fight them one-on-one instead of at the same time. Makashi duelists also trained themselves to avoid enslavement to form, as such enslavement opened the practitioner to be defeated by predictability and the unforeseen.[2]
Makashi users were elegant, precise, calm, confident to the point of arrogance (as befit Dooku's personality). Form II users were supremely confident in their chances for victory, and often looked so relaxed when they were fighting they even appeared to be dancing.[3]
Originally posted by Darth Subjektthat there is a lot of words...in any honest case maul's bad breath knocs the old fart into a long delayed coma
After Form I's proliferation as a lightsaber combat technique, Form II came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It was described as being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out, often wielding the blade one-handed for greater range of movement and fluidity. The form relied on parries, thrusts, and small, precise cuts—as opposed to the blocking and slashing of the other forms. Form II countered sun djem, the goal of early Form I masters, by being well trained in prevention of disarming and weapon destruction.The opening stance for Makashi was a single-handed low guard, with the blade angled downward at the practitioner's side[1]. The formal salute that Dooku offered Yoda on Geonosis was a "Makashi salute", while a Makashi flourish consisted of drawing a rapid X in the air with the blade.[2]
Form II emphasized fluid motion and anticipation of a weapon being swung at its target, and so required very fluid movements of both the blade and the body.
Feints would also be commonly used to confuse or set-up their opponents for a trap, a tactic that Count Dooku commonly used in his duels during the Clone Wars.[3] Precise footwork and movements were required for maintaining proper distance from the opponent during defense and/or when moving in for an attack. The blade manipulation required for this form was very refined and required intense focus, such as Dooku's hurling objects at Anakin while using a one-handed bind to keep Obi-Wan at bay. Timing, accuracy, and skill, rather than strength, were relied on to defeat one's opponent, and with a skilled practitioner, the results were extremely potent.
Dooku using Makashi in a sparring match with Grievous.The footwork of Makashi practitioners followed a single line, front and back, shifting the feet to keep in perfect balance as the practitioner attacked and retreated. Makashi was a style based on balance, on back-and-forth charges, thrusts, and sudden retreats.[3] Elegance, gallantry, enchantment, finesse, artfulness, and economy were the core of Makashi. Dooku displayed this to the extreme during the duel aboard the Invisible Hand, using his footwork to evade Anakin and Obi-Wan so that he could fight them one-on-one instead of at the same time. Makashi duelists also trained themselves to avoid enslavement to form, as such enslavement opened the practitioner to be defeated by predictability and the unforeseen.[2]
Makashi users were elegant, precise, calm, confident to the point of arrogance (as befit Dooku's personality). Form II users were supremely confident in their chances for victory, and often looked so relaxed when they were fighting they even appeared to be dancing.[3]
Originally posted by Faunus
Anyway, this doesn't mean that any Form V swordsman would defeat any Form II practitioner. That's not even likely.
I would never argue that position, or even think it. I would say that if two lightsaber duelists with equal skill and force ability, one using Form II and the other Form V, crossed sabers - the Form V practitioner would win more times than not. Of course, no one can prove or disprove that, and it's completely based on speculation...ah well.
NO.
****, do you not get it? Makashi is the ultimate dueling form. Period. It's not up for a debate. If you pit two equal combatants against one another, one wielding Djem So and the other Makashi, the one with Makashi would win unless the other guy beat him by some fluke.
REPEAT: MAKASHI IS THE ULTIMATE DUELING FORM. UNLESS THERE IS A GREAT DISPARITY BETWEEN COMBATANTS, IT IS BETTER THAN ALL OTHER FORMS. ACCEPT IT AND MOVE THE **** ON.
I don't think Anakin's win was a fluke. But other than that, I agree. Unless of course they just started using Makashi. Or if you're fighting Yoda... or your opponent is using Vaapad and you're evil. Really that's too definitive a statement. On a stand alone basis, yes, it is the pinnacle of all dueling forms, but obviously that doesn't mean that they always win.
EDIT: honestly, I just notice you put "equally" in your post and I'm too lazy to just change my post above. Nevermind. You're spot on then. 🙂 👆
Originally posted by Gideonreally... have taken into consideration Old Sith Wars era Juyo, Mace's Vaapad, or instinct/skill Luke knew almost no forms had to discover them and well he turned out ok...
NO.****, do you not get it? Makashi is the ultimate dueling form. Period. It's not up for a debate. If you pit two equal combatants against one another, one wielding Djem So and the other Makashi, the one with Makashi would win unless the other guy beat him by some fluke.
REPEAT: MAKASHI IS THE ULTIMATE DUELING FORM. UNLESS THERE IS A GREAT DISPARITY BETWEEN COMBATANTS, IT IS BETTER THAN ALL OTHER FORMS. ACCEPT IT AND MOVE THE **** ON.
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
really... have taken into consideration Old Sith Wars era Juyo, Mace's Vaapad, or instinct/skill Luke knew almost no forms had to discover them and well he turned out ok...
You didn't read what I typed, did you? I said that Makashi would dominate all other lightsaber forms if you take two equal combatants and pit them against one another; Mace Windu's Vaapad was described as "the deadliest" lightsaber form due to its metaphysical nature against dark siders and how close it brings its user to the dark side. Luke Skywalker's technical ability as a swordsman isn't necessarily the greatest or even top tier, but due to his considerable strength in the Force, he is a highly dangerous combatant.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Don't.
Originally posted by GideonLuke Skywalker's technical ability as a swordsman isn't necessarily the greatest or even top tier, but due to his considerable strength in the Force, he is a highly dangerous combatant...
You didn't read what I typed, did you? I said that Makashi would dominate all other lightsaber forms if you take two equal combatants and pit them against one another; Mace Windu's Vaapad was described as "the deadliest" lightsaber form due to its metaphysical nature against dark siders and how close it brings its user to the dark side. Luke Skywalker's technical ability as a swordsman isn't necessarily the greatest or even top tier, but due to his considerable strength in the Force, he is a highly dangerous combatant.You're comparing apples and oranges. Don't.
oh and btw apples are TOTALLY better than oranges
😖hifty:
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Luke Skywalker's technical ability as a swordsman isn't necessarily the greatest or even top tier, but due to his considerable strength in the Force, he is a highly dangerous combatant...oh and btw apples are TOTALLY better than oranges
😖hifty:
There is no actual response here. You merely took a statement from my argument and pasted it in front of an alarmingly dull joke.
Originally posted by Gideonno actually you wrote my answer for me
There is no actual response here. You merely took a statement from my argument and pasted it in front of an alarmingly dull joke.
saber form isn't all there is heck for that matter it is not even whats most important
thats the point ive been trying to make...
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
no actually you wrote my answer for mesaber form isn't all there is heck for that matter it is not even whats most important
thats the point ive been trying to make...
It's irrelevant. I was making a separate point altogether. If Count Dooku's powers were equal to Skywalker, he would tool him in a lightsaber match. Why? His form is better. If you make two equal combatants with Makashi and Djem So fight, the Makashi wielder would come out ahead.