Cassandra Cain VS Captain America

I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Nope. She is a ringer in speed/agility like Daredevil. But she is not meta strong or meta durable. Thats why her strength/ durability feats are lame compared to Batman.

You do realize this....right?

shes also Robins age, a foot shorter than Bruce and prolly 75lbs lighter.........so thats not something that can be helped.

of course, she fought Deathstroke and was basically UNTOUCHED by him, as opposed to Bruces fight w/Slade.

so, based on *that* and her other showings Id lean towards her ftw.

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by spetznaz
When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

this was her 2nd time fighting him right?

Tazer

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Beautiful post but I just disagree with one thing, captain america>slade.

No way he wins 10/10 or easily at that but he wins and Slade> Cap.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Great post

Still Cap

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Excellent post.

Originally posted by spetznaz
I will assume this is a pure H2H fight.

I will also give the win to Captain America.

Let me explain: Cassandra is by far the more skilled (in ways that Steve Rogers could not even comprehend .....she is so skilled that for a while her speech faculties in her brain were vestigial due to the total take-over of the physical component ....she 'talked' violence).

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....beyond even Batman's methodology. Steve and Bruce are perfect, but Cassandra is something else. It is like the difference between someone who is EXTREMELY good at math (and gets 100% in all mathematical exams), and someone who is a GENIUS at math, and can calculate 10 digit figure equations with his mind in the sequence of a second and has no idea how they do it.

When Batgirl had lost her combat reading powers, she asked Batman how long it would take for her to learn defence to be good enough for the costume. He said 1 year. She then asked how long it would take for her to be as good as him. He said 10 years. However, she would never be as good as she was before she lost her abilities (later Lady Shiva gave her back those abilities, and when she had them back Batman couldn't even land ONE blow on her. He might as well have been standing still).

However, Captain America wins this fight.

How, after I've explained that Cassie is basically ...well ....beyond physicality?

Simply by looking at the trouble she was having with Deathstroke, and the trouble Iron Fist was having with Captain America.

When Cassie was fighting against Slade, she was having serious difficulty. The thing is Slade is a certain type of meta, who has perfect flow. He is not as good as her, but he is very fast, and motion for him is ....well ....perfect. In her own words, she couldn't read him because every movement he made was like a VERY LOUD choir singing VERY FAST.

Now look at Iron Fist and Captain America. Similar situation when they faced off .....in fact in the scan you can see Danny saying that Steve's martial arts skill is BASIC, but that he is so fast and perfect in motion that hitting the darn guy is just hard nuts!

Similar situations.

What is fact is that reading Steve would be hard for Cassie ....not as hard as reading Slade, but still hard (maybe at the same level as trying to read Ravager ....who was also a 'choir,' but not as loud and not as fast, meaning that Cassie was able to engage her with some effort and win). Steve would be between Ravager and Slade, meaning that even though Cassie might still read him, it would not be the advantage it would be with another fighter.

The advantage here is Captain America's, and he should win a good number. It will not be 10/10 ....actually more like 6/10.

But a win is a win.

Caveat: However, if I want to be a b!tch I can include a caveat. Looking at the Steve vs Bruce fights, they were basically equal ...but it was stated that if it went on for long enough Captain America would win. However, for them to be equal in the short-term, means that it is possible for Batgirl (using her skills and abilities) to pull in a number of wins.

Anyways, for now Captain America

Ravager has a form of pre-cog, so that comparison is in-accurate. And Slade has a tactical mind that rivals Batmans, and at times is better in a pitched fight.

and you should know better than to cite crossovers for evidence. 😛 A long dragged out fight, yes, would favor Steve, due to his lack of fatigue toxins. But I'm not sure Batman would let himself be worn down to that point.

more importantly, Steve is lacking his greatest weapon in this fight, unless I miss my guess. The Shield. As shown in various fights, including his match against Taskmaster, without the shield, he just doesn't have the edge over the top tier martial artists. Now, I still think he can win the majority, but it is possible for Batgirl to win it since Cap's stats aren't as far out there as Slade's are.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
A long dragged out fight, yes, would favor Steve, due to his lack of fatigue toxins. But I'm not sure Batman would let himself be worn down to that point.

isnt that basically wat happend the 1st time Slade fought Bats??

Tazer

Nope. Slade beat the hell out of him fairly badly.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

shes also Robins age, a foot shorter than Bruce and prolly 75lbs lighter.........so thats not something that can be helped.

of course, she fought Deathstroke and was basically UNTOUCHED by him, as opposed to Bruces fight w/Slade.

so, based on *that* and her other showings Id lean towards her ftw.

Tazer

Exept in there recent showings she said Slade was playing with her. And she wasn't tagged by characters non-enhanced unlike Cap/Slade like Batman, Connor, Shiva, and many many more.

Plus thats why I lean towards Cap he's enhanced and the better fighter IMO.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He still wins even if its pure h2h hand DD can read his moves when he goes up against A-listers he gets punched up just like everybody else.

Spiderman can sense bullets before they are shot, SS has lightspeed reflexes, etc. Yet both Spiderman and SS has been hit multiple times by much slower speeds. See how stupid comics are? So your argument is somewhat faulty.

The question is :
Has Cassandra failed to read someone's in fighting when she had access to that power? If not then who's to say that Cap will even touch her?

Originally posted by h1a8
Spiderman can sense bullets before they are shot, SS has lightspeed reflexes, etc. Yet both Spiderman and SS has been hit multiple times by much slower speeds. See how stupid comics are? So your argument is somewhat faulty.

The question is :
Has Cassandra failed to read someone's in fighting when she had access to that power? If not then who's to say that Cap will even touch her?

Or a better question. Who's to say Cass will touch Cap since Cap has enhanced speed and Cass does not.

Cass skill to body read is impressive but its not the be all of the streets. I'd take Caps enhancement/skill on any given day over Cass skill.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nope. Slade beat the hell out of him fairly badly.

yea, it was and Slade ALSO took quite a beating himself; that was prolly 1 of the heaviest slobber-knockers Bruce has ever been in where he LOST too.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Exept in there recent showings she said Slade was playing with her. And she wasn't tagged by characters non-enhanced unlike Cap/Slade like Batman, Connor, Shiva, and many many more.

Plus thats why I lean towards Cap he's enhanced and the better fighter IMO.

thats in their recent fight; in their *very 1st* he never laid a hand on her while she scored a few hits off'a him, altho she had to bail when he raised the stakes on her higher than she was prepped to deal with.

Tazer

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Or a better question. Who's to say Cass will touch Cap since Cap has enhanced speed and Cass does not.

Cass skill to body read is impressive but its not the be all of the streets. I'd take Caps enhancement/skill on any given day over Cass skill.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
😬
Cass evades bullets at point-blank range every time.
She actually moves faster than the rate of gunfire.

Cap has played in lasers under "zero gravity" and has blocked random beams in training with gauntlets and has even moved ahead of bullets.

I know very well about Cass bullet-time feats. But she hasn't proven to be faster then Cap.

Originally posted by Tazer

thats in their recent fight; in their *very 1st* he never laid a hand on her while she scored a few hits off'a him, altho she had to bail when he raised the stakes on her higher than she was prepped to deal with.

Tazer [/B]

And? Point is Slade was just toying with her in the second fight. So what if she was untouched the first one it was unsettled to begin with and she's been hit by slower the Slade anyways.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And? Point is Slade was just toying with her in the second fight. So what if she was untouched the first one it was unsettled to begin with and she's been hit by slower the Slade anyways.

point is she was all over a person as augmented as Slade is, and only backed off due to him pulling a grenade on her.

not saying Cap would do the same OR that she'd be all over him like she was her, but I do think she could take a majority from him; she's shown the skills for it.

Tazer

EDIT

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As shown in various fights, including his match against Taskmaster, without the shield, he just doesn't have the edge over the top tier martial artists. Now, I still think he can win the majority, but it is possible for Batgirl to win it since Cap's stats aren't as far out there as Slade's are.

In various fights...which are these? Of ooucrse Cap didn't have the edge. Taskmaster had explosive arrows a sword and a shield. Context please. 😬