Cassandra Cain VS Captain America

Originally posted by spetznaz

She is also perfect in terms of timing, combat cadence, and the ability to read an opponent that Steve Rogers would also NOT be able to comprehend. Her way of fighting is beyond anything that Steve could comprehend .....

Im not sure about that. Its been stated on panel that Cap can read an opponent by just glancing at them. Howvere 'read' could be intepreted in many ways.

Also if Cap can master an alien martial art in one day I don't see how its beyond anyhting he could comprehend.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not sure about that. Its been stated on panel that Cap can read an opponent by just glancing at them. Howvere 'read' could be intepreted in many ways.

Also if Cap can master an alien martial art in one day I don't see how its beyond anyhting he could comprehend.

The Batman can also read an opponent by looking at them, to the point of even dodging gunfire simply by knowing when the person will pull the trigger (he's even done more than that, for instance dodging a sniper's bullet that was coming from behind him simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in the air caused by the rifled slug rushing towards him).

My point was not to demean Batman and Captain America. In my post I stated that Bruce and Steve are like perfect mathematicians who are beyond excellent in advanced mathematics, getting 100% in every test that they do. They are not slouches. However Cassie is like the genius savant ....not only will she get 100% as well, but she will do all those complex calculations in her head, without using calculators or metric tables, and do the entire paper just by looking at it (in her head) in seconds. All three will get 100%, but Cassie will do it in a way that is simply near magic!

Maybe a better analogy (sticking with the Savant feel) would be to compare the guy who won all those Jeopardy sessions (perfect answers every time until he lost many weeks later), vs one of those savants who also store many pieces of information in their heads. Both will answer any question you ask about who this and that musician was, or that period of painting, or who won the baseball series in 1978.

However, the Savant will also tell you the WEATHER that was going on in 1978, what day of the week it was, and whether the moon was full that night or not.

Both are perfect ....but one is bringing something extra.

Thus I was not degrading Captain America (or Batman) ....they are amazing. It is just that if Captain America is the Silver Surfer overdosed on the Power Cosmic, then Cassandra is Mr. Mxyptzltk on crack. Both are exceedingly powerful, but one of them is ...well ....magic!

As for mastering alien martial arts, Cassie basically learned an entire secret ninjitsu artform used by the Shadow Thief simply by watching him make a simple move.

As for comprehension, what I meant is that Cassie's entire mental constitution has been turned towards violence. This was at one point to such an extent that she couldn't even speak apart from via violence. The kid was bloody abused by Cain (not in a sexual way, but in that she did not grow up normal. She is so supremely F'ed up that in some ways she is more twisted than even Batman, who is one of the most twisted characters in DC by the way. Let's just say he was not chosen in the entire sector of the universe that includes the milky way to have a Qwardian ring, which operates on fear, for no reason).

If Cap and Bats are a Bugatti Veyron and an Enzo Ferrari, perfect in every way, then Batgirl (when it comes to pure physical expression) would be like the Delorean car that could time-travel in the movie Back to the Future. All great cars, but one of them has certain extras.

I was not sitting on Cap and Bruce ....just saying that even though they are perfect, Batgirl is something slightly beyond that.

With that said, Cap wins for the reasons I stated on that post.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

point is she was all over a person as augmented as Slade is, and only backed off due to him pulling a grenade on her.

not saying Cap would do the same OR that she'd be all over him like she was her, but I do think she could take a majority from him; she's shown the skills for it.

Tazer

And yet in the second fight she's not all over a person who is augmented and even she saids Slade is playing with her.

Cap is enhanced and one of the best fighters on Earth. As I do think Cap would take the majority from her. He's shown the skills for it.

Originally posted by spetznaz

My point was not to demean Batman and Captain America.

Yeah I know but since Cap is my fav superhero I gotta argue for him.

Originally posted by spetznaz

As for mastering alien martial arts, Cassie basically learned an entire secret ninjitsu artform used by the Shadow Thief simply by watching him make a simple move.

.....she learn't a martial art by watching somebody doing a move? 😐

A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep

Cassie. She can read moves so well its almost precog. Also she's insanely fast and skilled.

Originally posted by shiv
A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep

To bad that doesn't prove Slade is vastly superior. Anyone can post up a bio........LOL.

Originally posted by shiv
A fight with Captain America is not The same as a fight with Deathstroke or Batman.

W.r.to Batman He not only recruited and Trained Batgirl in Defense but completed countless psych and combat evaluations on his protege.

W.r.to Deathstroke: Wilson is Vastly superior to Cap.

quick recap;

Enhanced Mind: Able to utilize 90% of his brain's potential capacity for information processing and sorting, Deathstroke's mind is virtually a computer built for strategy and problem-solving, one that works at optimal ability even when under stress and fatigue. Using his superior problem-solving skills, Deathstroke can work out a battle ahead of time in its infinite possibilities and predict enemy movements and tactics after the battle has engaged by recalling and utilizing memorized mannerisms acquired through past experience on a moment's notice. He is also ingenious in devising solutions against superior aspects of opponents, can observe and exploit, and can calculate distance, speed, and time at lightning speeds; his sense of timing is superb, bordering on perfection.

Flexibility: Tendons and ligaments have been simultaneously stretched and strengthened, allowing him incredible flexibility in addition to his ability to dismantle and reset his limbs.

Regenerative Healing Factor: Deathstroke, however, can only repair limbs and organs, not regenerate them. If a limb or organ (such as an eye) is completely removed, it's gone for good.

Masterful TacticianSlade single handedly defeated the entire JLA roster except for green arrow.

Cassandra Cain v Slade** => tied >> Cap.

**without prep

Yeah that proves your point. 🙄

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah that proves your point. 🙄

Again another Slade fan who doesn't really prove his statements at all. That seems to be the norm though. 🙂

Its not like its been proven that cap is as good as Deathstroke.

Cap wins, hes more experienced and is better in all stats.

Cap also beats Daredevil so he is use to Cassandra's type powers.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Its not like its been proven that cap is as good as Deathstroke.

DS's powerset is similar to Caps they are both enhanced martial arts experts. Batman stated that Cap could beat him but it would take a long time. In other words Cap was better than him but Cap would win because he had a slight edge (enhancements).

The fight between Batman and DS fits the description of what Batman was predicting would happen if he fought Cap. Batman would keep up to a point then would get pounded because he can't keep up with Caps stamina and speed. Batman lost that fight to DS because DS was an enhanced MA, something which Cap is as well.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Cap also beats Daredevil so he is use to Cassandra's type powers.

DD as out of practice and he couldn't predict Caps moves because he had some drugs in him messing up DDs radar.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

.....she learn't a martial art by watching somebody doing a move?

In a nutshell, yes.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
DS's powerset is similar to Caps they are both enhanced martial arts experts. Batman stated that Cap could beat him but it would take a long time. In other words Cap was better than him but Cap would win because he had a slight edge (enhancements).

The fight between Batman and DS fits the description of what Batman was predicting would happen if he fought Cap. Batman would keep up to a point then would get pounded because he can't keep up with Caps stamina and speed. Batman lost that fight to DS because DS was an enhanced MA, something which Cap is as well.

DD as out of practice and he couldn't predict Caps moves because he had some drugs in him messing up DDs radar.

Yo.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet in the second fight she's not all over a person who is augmented and even she saids Slade is playing with her.

which isnt an admission that she'd LOSE, only that Slade wasnt being serious. kinda says something that she could recognize that too.....

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap is enhanced and one of the best fighters on Earth. As I do think Cap would take the majority from her. He's shown the skills for it.

ok, fair enuff. however I dont think he's EVER fought sum1 as skilled as her, and I do consider her more skilled than him.

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
[B]Yo.

which isnt an admission that she'd LOSE, only that Slade wasnt being serious. kinda says something that she could recognize that too.....

Not just being serious but IIRC toying with her. But I will say there first fight Cass looked good as well. Not an indicator she would have won that bout but did look the better.

ok, fair enuff. however I dont think he's EVER fought sum1 as skilled as her, and I do consider her more skilled than him.

I agree that she is more skilled martial artists but not the better fighter, plus thanks to his enhanced mind to boot for that and all his experience. I disagree IMO Cap has fought sum1 as skilled as her like Ironfist and Daredevil.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Similar doesn't mean the same. I'm pretty sure Cap couldn't shoot Impulse in the knee with a gun. or stab the Flash or defeat the Atom when he became subatomic. etc.

I'm pretty sure Slade couldn't take Hulk down or make Thunderball bleed or defeat Redscull with cosmic cube. But cherry picking showings anyone can do. Its about overall showings and how both Cap/Slade do when fighting in there own weight class.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'm pretty sure Slade couldn't take Hulk down or make Thunderball bleed or defeat Redscull with cosmic cube. But cherry picking showings anyone can do. Its about overall showings and how both Cap/Slade do when fighting in there own weight class.

Like how Slade positioned bombs around him and knew where Wally would be, which is how he stabbed him. This, I believe, is also when hit shot Atom with a device when he became sub atomic, everyone was jobbing to Slade. Hell, Kyle tried to punch him instead of actually using his powers.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap has played in lasers under "zero gravity" and has blocked random beams in training with gauntlets and has even moved ahead of bullets.

I know very well about Cass bullet-time feats. But she hasn't proven to be faster then Cap.

Dodging after the fire and evading the aim are two different things. CA can't and has never reacted to light speeds. Holding a shield up in defense isn't reacting to lasers. CA has never moved ahead of bullets. I've seen that scan and have argued otherwise.

With that said, their speeds should be comparable. If not then CA is just a little faster.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dodging after the fire and evading the aim are two different things. CA can't and has never reacted to light speeds. Holding a shield up in defense isn't reacting to lasers. CA has never moved ahead of bullets. I've seen that scan and have argued otherwise.

With that said, their speeds should be comparable. If not then CA is just a little faster.

GTFO.