The Presence or Yahweh are one and the same (The Presence is known under many names). The same being, the same person. The Presence is personal and that is also clear in the comics. Yahweh may be The Presence manifestation or his expansion, but it's still The Presence, the same person. No difference.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
He is everything in the DCU.
The power of The Presence derives from him. The Presence is personal and he controls the Supreme power. He is everywhere in DC and controls everything, since everything is under his power. But he still is a person with shape and form, but is the Supreme person, with the absolute power in comics (similar to THOTI, but it seems that not like TOAA).
This is a stalemate, but The Presence would probably take the win.
If we consider JLA/Avengers to be canon, (debatable) then the marvel and DC multiverses are roughly equivalent in size.
this means that the presence=marvel's TOAA...both would be supreme rulers/gods/whatevers of the totalities of their respective realities.
The problem with pre-retcon beyonder is that he/it was stated to be not just a god, but an entire sentient reality quadrillions of times more powerful than either one of those. the "beyond realm" wasn't part of the marvel universe, it was a completely different continuity and further proven to be so when the "new universe" was established (and abandoned) after secret wars.
to put it very simply, it's like making a versus fight between the marvel and image universes, with the stipulation that image is a billion times larger/more powerful. There's no way for DC, the presence, or anyone to win a debate against Pre-retcon beyonder. that character was retconned for a reason- it completely broke the marvel cosmic heirarchy and made a joke out of it.
the only way the presence doesn't get obliterated instantly is if you can somehow make the argument that the DC multiverse is equivalent to the size/power of the pre-retcon beyond realm, which is (1) ludicrous and (2) not likely if we consider JLA/Avengers to be canon.
no more vs. threads with PR beyonder please. That character needs to be retired from these boards.
Originally posted by Astner
If you clicked on the link above--to the respect thread--you'd realise that what you're claiming is wrong.
IIRC he's done it at least 3 times already:
As YHWH, as Wally, and as Jim Corrigan's father.
Rama Kushna is also a plausible alternate name referred to him.
But essentially, The Presence has no form and all-encompassing, similar to the Abrahamic God.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Just like THOTI, or the Infinity Being and even Eternity/Infinity.
Eternity has a permanent form, as well as Infinity.
The Presence has NO form, no M-Body.
Like the Brahman of Hinduism, Allah of Islam, or the Abrahamic God of Christianity.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
THOTI has been shown as a spherical mass of blue energy.Eternity has a permanent form, as well as Infinity.
The Presence has NO form, no M-Body.
Like the Brahman of Hinduism, Allah of Islam, or the Abrahamic God of Christianity.
Brahman is Krishna expansion in a non-personal form. So, the same person in a different, non-personal role (Krishna knew people in material world will easier conceive God, Him in a non-personal form, but God is a person, but a Supreme Person unlike us, who are His particles). But Supreme Person is the cause of Brahman. We know Krishna is a person, Supreme Person, Absolute and has His shape and form. Jesus was clearly teaching that God is personal (so the true Abrahamic God of Christianity was thought by Jesus to be a person, the same goes for Allah, but Brahman is indeed His non-personal form), so was Muhammad, so were other true spiritual masters (A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada being also among them).
Maybe The Presence is Brahman, that is why it was clearly seen that even The Presence is shaped by external sources, by person or personal form. The Presence is like THOTI, the absolute writer power within comics.
Krishna is God or Allah, and Brahman is His non-personal expansion.
Although Hinduism has Vishnu as the Supreme and Krishna as his avatar, true spiritual masters have clearly said that Krishna is the Supreme and cause of all causes and therefor also cause of Vishnu expansion.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerTHOTI has been shown as a spherical mass of blue energy.
THOTI was a formless concentration of all energy in the Omniverse,
once merged with it, Thanos became all that is, was or ever will be.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerEternity has a permanent form, as well as Infinity.
Eternity is a concept, so is Infinity, how can they have form? 😐
Eternity/Infinity employ fractals to give them a form, ( to manifest as an image)
but this form is not either of them, just a shell that contains their power.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerThe Presence has NO form, no M-Body.
Like the Brahman of Hinduism, Allah of Islam,
or the Abrahamic God of Christianity.
And let's not mention the others, they're inconsequential,
the Presence, who related to michael/Lucifer and Jesus,
is obviously a cheap imitation of the Abrahamic God,
cheap ... because Lucy is not God's son in any way shape or form,
according to the Bible, which is where everything Christian God is defined,
Yahweh only has one, and that's Jesus.
And let's not mention the others, they're inconsequential, the Presence, who related to michael/Lucifer and Jesus, is obviously a cheap imitation of the Abrahamic God, cheap ... because Lucy is not God's son in any way shape or form, according to the Bible, which is where everything Christian God is defined, Yahweh only has one, and that's Jesus.
Lucifer/Michael/Gabriel are not literally The Presence/God's sons.
They're just the most powerful angels. And probably the most powerful beings in all DCU existance sans The Presence itself.
He refers to them as my son's in the same way that the Bible states all of human beings are God's children.
Originally posted by Mr Master
And let's not mention the others, they're inconsequential,
the Presence, who related to michael/Lucifer and Jesus,
is obviously a cheap imitation of the Abrahamic God,
cheap ... because Lucy is not God's son in any way shape or form,
according to the Bible, which is where everything Christian God is defined,
Yahweh only has one, and that's Jesus.
That is partially true, because Jesus has also clearly said that he is not God and that we are all God children's, no less than Jesus himself.
It's only that we have fallen from our true nature, true home, from spiritual realm and Jesus is among more true spiritual masters who have come to teach us, to show us a way, how to return home, because we have forgotten it all.
And also about God having only one son, Jesus, no it's not true. Jesus was never teaching that, but that is the way of today corrupted church who is teaching something that Jesus was never teaching.
There is almost no Christian in the world that is following Jesus, but mostly are following christian church, which has gone all wrong of what Jesus wanted.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishLucifer/Michael/Gabriel are not literally The Presence/God's sons.
They're just the most powerful angels. And probably the most powerful beings in all DCU existance sans The Presence itself.
He refers to them as my son's in the same way that the Bible states all of human beings are God's children.
btw. ... Humans are called God's children,
more for symbolism rather than actuality,
Humans are just Humans now, but have the potential to be God's children,
but this is when we evolve in death into the next existence,
where we will all be gods, hence, "God's children" ...
Only Jesus is referred to as God's actual son in the Bible.
(in fact, it's literally stated, God's "only begotten son"😉