People seem to confuse the writer with fictional beings.
The One-Above-All is depicted in "Sensational Spider-Man #40" as a homeless man. Note this being has no connections to the writers of the "outside-world".
The-One-Above-All (fictional) > Presence (fictional) > classic Beyonder
Handbooks and similar sources suggest that The-One-Above-All is supreme within the Marvel Omniverse, and it's creator. The cosmic feats in Marvel, to my knowledge, extends the cosmic feats in DC therefore The-One-Above-All would be greater than the Presence. Other than that the Presence has shown some severe flaws, both in Vertigo and in the mainstream DCU (I'm looking at Synnar who was able to escape the Presence's omniscience.)
To say that both The-One-Above-All (fictional) and the Presence is equal due to them both being supreme is to commit the golden meaning fallacy.
Originally posted by Golgo13yeah I know. its full of holes
How could the Pressence = PM? PM didn't even know the DC universe existed.
it was explored in depth here but end result still wasnt very conclusively http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t508232.html
writers just piled concepts on top of concepts neglecting consistency
Originally posted by Jynocidus
how dare PM not be knowledgeable of The Presence, that's just rude
The cosmologies of Marvel and DC aren't as structured and universal as people tend to believe. Now, I'm not telling people to stop thinking and give up on making sense of it. But don't act like the authors of DC put great thought into the lack of the Presence's role in the Superman Beyond story-line.
Originally posted by AstnerPeople seem to confuse the writer with fictional beings.
The One-Above-All is depicted in "Sensational Spider-Man #40" as a
homeless man. Note this being has no connections to the writers of
the "outside-world".
There's no doubt the TOAA's half that appeared in Spidey #40
was a representative avatar of the Writer.
I have on panel proof if need be as always. 🙂
Originally posted by AstnerThe-One-Above-All (fictional) > Presence (fictional) > classic Beyonder
Imo, only the Primal Monitor truly compares to Shooter's vision of the Beyonder.
Now,
I also apply an understanding when Supreme powers confront each other,
it should be auto stalemate.
We'll never see two supreme beings battle in comics (even DC vs
Marvel the result was a never-ending stalemate) so there's no point
in babbling about which Supreme being is greater.
Now,
I don't understand the relationship between the Primal Monitor and Presence,
but one's gotta be greater if they are indeed separate entities.
(there can only be One supreme power within a company)
In the Beyonder's case, he was the Supreme power ...
... ridiculous as it may be Jim Shooter stated Beyonder discovered him along with Marvel:
"Beyonder's discovery of our Universe"
"We introduced the Beyonder
and established
that he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"
------------------------------------------------------
This is probably why ol' Jimmy had Stan Lee bowing to the Beyonder:
(left bottom corner ... top of his index finger ... Beyonder's right hand)
(top right corner)
😂
-------------------------------------------------
You know, I've thought of this before,
but on the strength of descriptions Astner,
if TOAA was a character in play at the time,
then TOAA was < Beyonder according to Shooter.
He didn't say that exactly but blatantly implied it in this interview.
^so, if i understand you correctly, you're saying that the beyonder's dimension wasn't just outside the marvel multiverse, but that it wasn't even considered a part of the marvel omniverse? i ask because toaa is credited with being the supreme marvel-based power. i would extend that domain to include any book ever published by marvel. even the new universe universe was considered (imo at least) to be part of that omniversal domain and as such a part of the toaa's purview. so, since the beyonder and his realm, is part of marvel, it seems natural that it would fall under the purview of the toaa. and, shooter's artistic shots notwithstanding, any other conclusion would appear to be, imo anyway, self-evidently paradoxical... shrug
^^ Non-Existent Future-Self of Doom gets the Street Fighter cheese win of all time.
Originally posted by leonidas^so, if i understand you correctly, you're saying that the
beyonder's dimension wasn't just outside the marvel multiverse, but
that it wasn't even considered a part of the marvel omniverse?
Shooter said in that interview,
he was another whole Multiverse, (when Marvel was only a multiverse)
and he was God before Genesis (whatever blasphemous meaning that holds)
and as you already know he discovered Shooter as well. 😂
Stan lee bowing to Beyonder.
Imo, this is madness ... so I rather look at it as Beyonder > writer/artist avatars.
That's also paradoxical but hey ... it is what it is.
Originally posted by leonidasi ask because toaa is credited with being the supreme marvel-
based power. i would extend that domain to include any book ever
published by marvel. even the new universe universe was
considered (imo at least) to be part of that omniversal domain and
as such a part of the toaa's purview. so, since the beyonder and
his realm, is part of marvel, it seems natural that it would fall under
the purview of the toaa. and, shooter's artistic shots
notwithstanding, any other conclusion would appear to be, imo
anyway, self-evidently paradoxical...
shooter's comments can be interpreted as him including the real world in the list of things beyonder was beyond or just using the term 'us' to speak of marvel earth, identifying with it. the latter is more likely and less absurd.
beyonder was only ever shown investigating the 616. there wasnt even a good moment of cheesy 4th wall shattering in which the writers and artists are drawn into the comic.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Non-Existent Future-Self of Doom gets the Street Fighter cheese win of all time.Insane, but correct. (or at-least that's the way it looks)
Shooter said in that interview,
he was another whole Multiverse, (when Marvel was only a multiverse)
and he was God before Genesis (whatever blasphemous meaning that holds)
and as you already know he discovered Shooter as well. 😂
Stan lee bowing to Beyonder.Imo, this is madness ... so I rather look at it as Beyonder > writer/artist avatars.
That's also paradoxical but hey ... it is what it is.
I agree. If there ever was a retcon in order .. here it is. 🙂
huh, interesting. not sure how to credit those thouhgts. as usual, mindset may well be right in this case.....
do you happen to know where that interview can be found? thought i'd read it but i don't remember some of that info. was it in a book? at a convention? i do recall some implications that might have led one to believe the beyonder was above even RL universe, (which i always took as tongue-in-cheek shooter just trying to p!ss even MORE people off....) but i don't recall that interview you mentioned.
Originally posted by 753beyonder was only ever shown investigating the 616.
Originally posted by 753there wasnt even a good moment of cheesy 4th wall shattering in
which the writers and artists are drawn into the comic.
I think including two sneaky images of Stan as one of Beyonder's slaves
is good enough.
Originally posted by leonidasdo you happen to know where that interview can be found?
thought i'd read it but i don't remember some of that info. was it in a
book? at a convention? i do recall some implications that might have
led one to believe the beyonder was above even RL universe, (which i
always took as tongue-in-cheek shooter just trying to p!ss even MORE
people off....) but i don't recall that interview you mentioned.
As you probably know but others may not,
Marvel Age is an official Marvel title (issue #'s and all)
that highlighted upcoming stories
(including comments from writers of said stories)
and also further details about stories that had already been published.
(like Secret Wars)
In another issue, I found Starlin's interview about the Infinity Gauntlet.
More info here concerning Marvel Age:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Age
* note Leo: Shooter never literally said Beyonder was above him,
I got that from him saying Betyonder discovered him along with everything else,
and if Beyonder was so much more than everything else,
well then ...
Originally posted by Mr MasterI remember when I used to bring up the notion that some characters were portrayed as more powerful than their real world writers, and you laughed at the idea... You called it a cartoonie joke that wasn't meant to be taken seriously, iirc. But if your opinion regarding the aforementioned has changed, then you should know that Mopee(a 5-D denizen) has some of the best feats out there...
Shooter said in that interview,
he was another whole Multiverse, (when Marvel was only a multiverse)
and he was God before Genesis (whatever blasphemous meaning that holds)
and as you already know he discovered Shooter as well. 😂
Stan lee bowing to Beyonder.Imo, this is madness ... so I rather look at it as Beyonder > writer/artist avatars.
That's also paradoxical but hey ... it is what it is.
Not only was Mopee responsible for creating the 'big guns' in both Marvel and DC(ie. Flash, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) but he also introduced Jim Shooter's mother and father, thus making him responsible for the creation of Jim Shooter himself:
So really, you should thank Mopee. Without him the Beyonder would be non-existent. 👆
Originally posted by leonidasHere's the whole interview:
huh, interesting. not sure how to credit those thouhgts. as usual, mindset may well be right in this case.....do you happen to know where that interview can be found? thought i'd read it but i don't remember some of that info. was it in a book? at a convention? i do recall some implications that might have led one to believe the beyonder was above even RL universe, (which i always took as tongue-in-cheek shooter just trying to p!ss even MORE people off....) but i don't recall that interview you mentioned.
Marvel Age #27.
