Project Holocron

Oh, Christ. Everytime I stop and think I've seen it all, another rung gives out on the intellectual ladder.

Originally posted by Darth Angel
And what is your point here may I know?

Palpatine deliberately and singlehandedly transformed an entire nascent planet into one of the "strongest dark side sites in the galaxy."

Can you prove that you are puting it in kyle's context?

Jesus H. Christ, Darth Angel. The omniscient narrator of the Ultimate Visual Guide says that Palpatine spent most of his reign secluded in his palace on Coruscant. Kyle Katarn, however badass, is not omniscient nor is he a narrator. Palpatine spent several years on Byss after his initial death at Endor, regaining his strength and studying the dark side to be stronger.

Evasive Action: Recruitment if I am not wrong. Well, it disproves the idea that the emperor barely left Coruscant. In fact I ask myself how would he deepning his force study if he spent more then 20 years locked in coruscant...

Jesus H. Christ, Darth Angel! So that Palpatine being out of the Palace in one ****ing comic somehow disproves the idea that he spent most of his time on Coruscant? That's ridiculous. Post something this stupid again and you're going on ignore.

I didn't know that fact (I can't just read all EU information obviously), and actually I ask you for source material (I would like to to check that info myself). Anyway, you are saying that the emperor wanted to turn the planet in a dark side nexus. Well, in that case you are saying that it wasn't palpatine mere presence alone that turned byss in a dark side nexus, but is intention, so you are saying that palpatine used his powers to turn that place in a dark side nexus. Well, I can disput that such feat can be reproduce. If freedom nadd can corrupt a moon with just the influence of his tomb, then a strong sith lord who "wants" to create a dark side nexus can most probably due it as well.

According to the Wizards of the Coast article:

A pleasant resort world used by Emperor Palpatine as a personal retreat, Byss was once a lush and fertile planet that was used as a lure to attract willing followers to settle in the Core. Over time, the Emperor's dark side energies slowly corrupted the world and transformed it into one of the most powerful dark side sites in the entire galaxy.

Once the populace had settled into their new lives in an Imperial utopia, the Emperor initiated his true plans for the world. Slowly but steadily, he used his dark Force powers to enslave the people on the world and drain their life energies to fuel his own vile experiments.

Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's evil machinations.

Point adressed already.

Only by strict definition was it "addressed", in that you responded to me. You didn't come close to proving or disproving anything.

I have already read and didn't find info that convinced me.

Convincing you isn't something I'm caring about. I'm going to give you one final turn. Make it a good one.

Has anybody ever considered that the fact that Palpatine did it single handedly helped the process? As Path of Destruction introduces to us, the dark side - from a cosmic perspective - is ultimately at its strongest when concentrated into one person. That Palaptine was the most powerful agent of the dark side in the Galaxy, and that he was acting as the sole conduit for the dark side on the entire planet could arguably have been the reason for the dark side acting through him in such a way to unprecedented levels. It's also entirely possible that the planetary transformation was a direct result of his mass dark side experiments, rather than his sheer presence.

Really, the workings of the Force are far too mysterious and vague to even attempt to interpret it in the ways that you guys have been doing.

We've seen people literally become vessels of the Force, we've seen the Force act of its own accord ("The Will of the Force"😉, we've seen the Force influx at times of critical importance to the Galaxy etc..

That Palpatine personally affected the Force to such levels is all fine and dandy, but if you'd like to attribute that to his personal level of power, it would be your burden of proof.

I'm going to see Eagle Eye. When I get back, we can debate this, Nebaris. But for that to happen, you're going to act mature and leave your jabs and baits aside. Otherwise, you will remain on ignore, and your opinion will not be taken into consideration.

Sure thing G, looking forward to it, and I promise to oh so uncharacteristically leave out the jabs and baits if you promise to never pretend to put me on ignore again.

Oh, Christ. Everytime I stop and think I've seen it all, another rung gives out on the intellectual ladder.

So that's how you defend your points? If you want to prove something, if you want to make a point in a debate, if you want to show you are "intellectual", show me good arguments.

Palpatine deliberately and singlehandedly transformed an entire nascent planet into one of the "strongest dark side sites in the galaxy.

So this="Great. Please come up with an entire point or don't bother."? lol

Jesus H. Christ, Darth Angel. The omniscient narrator of the Ultimate Visual Guide says that Palpatine spent most of his reign secluded in his palace on Coruscant. Kyle Katarn, however badass, is not omniscient nor is he a narrator. Palpatine spent several years on Byss after his initial death at Endor, regaining his strength and studying the dark side to be stronger.

Spending most of the time in coruscant isn't the same barely put his feet in Byss in over 20 years, that's my point.

Jesus H. Christ, Darth Angel! So that Palpatine being out of the Palace in one ****ing comic somehow disproves the idea that he spent most of his time on Coruscant? That's ridiculous. Post something this stupid again and you're going on ignore.

You like JC I am seeing. Anyway, I was jsut trying to prove that the idea that sidious converted Byss in a dark side nexus without puting his feet on the planet is completly stupid.

For the rest of the post, this information isn't new to me. What I ask you was for information that showed that Byss was an experiment and that he intended to this to all the planets.

Anyway, my point with all this was: palpatine corruption on Byss isn't something new. A sith lord "slowly corrupting a planet with his dark side energies" isn't something new. Impressive perhaps, but not unique, that's my point with all this. Also, I am feeling this debate is starting to become a discussion, a path I don't want to take really, so unless you have something new to add to this debate, I will not bother with this anymore.

Nebaris, you are on ignore. The function allows for me to read your posts though by clicking on the button. You haven't posted in a while, and I thought perhaps you were going to offer something worthwhile.

Welcome to Project Holocron, I'm the dictator-for-life. Act accordingly or don't participate. The end.

Darth Angel, thank you for your contributions, but this debate is over. Assessments on Marka Ragnos can begin.

Very well.

First off, one of the most important things about Marka Ragnos is the duration of his reign. Although not much is known about this Sith, a hundred years is way too much; this implies a certain degree of power, certainly needs to be taken onto consideration when ranking him. This era was called 'The Golden Age of the Sith' for a reason, after all. His dominion caused fear and admiration among the Sith; nobody ever dared to challenge him. There are only two reasonable explanations for this:
1. Either all (or most) of his minions were very weak, which, in my opinion, is unlikely, since his death led to the rise of Naga Sadow, who is considered powerful; certainly no-where near weak.
2. Ragnos was simply way too powerful for any of them to handle. His wisdom is something to consider, as well. Surely many of the Sith aspired to challenge him (and his beliefs) because he was reluctant to allow expansion for this Empire. In the end, after his death, this expansion led to a galactic confrontation with the Republic, and ultimately, the end for the Sith Empire.
He was the Sith who named Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma the new Dark Lords, in an attempt to restore the Sith Empire. He almost succeeded. Everybody knows he was 'resurrected' by Tavion, and then possessed her. Indeed, he was defeated by Jaden Korr, but no-one can know for sure to what degree does being in possession of a significantly weaker body affected the Sith Lord's power and control over his Scepter.
He probably was one of the Sith with the most knowledge over dark side abilities. Having a century to study and investigate Sith artifacts from Korriban (and, possibly other dark side planets). And, as this famous quote applies for the SW Universe: Knowledge is power. Anyone could argue, of course, that since he was reluctant to expand his Empire, this could've limited his knowledge, not being able to study and investigate other dark side planets in Republic space.

His surname, Ragnos, was derived from 'ragna', a name for 'Gods' in a specific language, as mentioned in Wookieepedia. This implies that the creators of the character might have given him the name since he was supposedly as powerful as a God. This, however, cannot be confirmed, and is mere speculation.

Meh. Sloppy, but I didn't have much time, I've to go. Maybe I'll continue later.

valerian: Jedi vs. Sith gives some insight. According to that:
"He maintained power by pitting his rivals against one another, manipulating them into challenging him or outright having him assassinated."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
valerian: Jedi vs. Sith gives some insight. According to that:
"He maintained power by pitting his rivals against one another, manipulating them into challenging him or outright having him assassinated."

Exactly, and they were always unsuccessful. A more powerful Sith should've been able to, somehow, defeat him.

Though some might disagree or think I am affording Marka Ragnos too much generosity, I would agree with you, Lieutenant. Ragnos was held in unabashed awe by his society and a post-Palpatine Sithian cult, millennia later. Though, if we wanted to argue strict feats, he is unremarkable, the purpose of this thread is to not ignore statements, strong implications, or inferences. Based on what is said of him, I would say that he rivals the likes of Luke Skywalker, Emperor Palpatine, Yoda, Mace Windu, Exar Kun, Gethzerion, Darth Vader, Starkiller, and other members of the absolute upper tier.

I would indeed say that, too, Gideon.

But he is no match for James Spader or my Master, the Great Publius.

Well, now, let's not forget about Chuck Norris and Plo Koon.

Did you just put those two ridiculously overhyped personages in the same sentence as James Spader or my Master, the Great Publius?

No, not the same sentence. Just.. Nearly.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Exactly, and they were always unsuccessful. A more powerful Sith should've been able to, somehow, defeat him.

Just saying he seems to have gotten by on canniness and guile quite a bit. Keep them from forming alliances against him, dispose of the weaker ones himself and have the stronger ones murdered

Meh. That's what Sidious did. Maybe Palpatine took lessons while on Korriban.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Just saying he seems to have gotten by on canniness and guile quite a bit. Keep them from forming alliances against him, dispose of the weaker ones himself and have the stronger ones murdered

If the stronger ones were really strong ones, I doubt he'd been able to murder them so easily as to simply continue his reign without further opposition. That is why I believe the real stronger lot of his minions, as skilled or powerful as they might've been, simply did not posses enough power to openly defy him, and, therefore, kept their mouths shut. And this includes Naga Sadow.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Meh. That's what Sidious did. Maybe Palpatine took lessons while on Korriban.

It's possible that Ragnos was a source of inspiration. The Dark Empire Sourcebook implies that Ulic Qel-Droma was a personal hero for Sidious.

In retrospect, I kind of doubt it...at the time, Veitch planned for Ulic to become the big bad monster of the old Republic. Palpatine's "Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious" seems more...mockingly sarcastic with that changed