Originally posted by Kotor3Mace's Vapaad and Shatterpoint and Yoda's position of the Darkness' Greatest Foe combined with their era's sublime saber skills doesn't bode well for the trio. Kreia's triple lightsabers (if they're used here, can't remember) aren't indestructible, and it'd be gross overestimation to say that her TK-Saber skills match the likes of Mace and Yoda.
Why do you say sabers easily? Yes PT era is known in general to be the height of saber combat but you are talking about great duelist who are powerful in the force.Revan was known to be the best in his era, never defeated in one to one combat. We do not have details on his style but I doubt he would be easy to defeat in saber combat. Malak was second to Revan and Kreia can use three at a time.
If this is Darth Revan, Yoda could Ataru him, or Mace could Vapaad him, even more so for Malak. Kreia's personal saber skills aren't worth a mention. The trio just won't win in sabers.
For use of the Force... it downplays Sidious numero Uno spot to say Yoda couldn't repel any of the trio's Lightning. And I can think of absolutely noting to suggest Yoda and Mace could resist Kreia's Drain, or Sever, or whatever. And I can think of nothing to suggest these PT Top Dogs couldn't resist it either. But I will say that if her Drain/Sever is all powerful then she becomes the ex Machina for all Vs.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Mace's Vapaad and Shatterpoint and Yoda's position of the Darkness' Greatest Foe combined with their era's sublime saber skills doesn't bode well for the trio. Kreia's triple lightsabers (if they're used here, can't remember) aren't indestructible, and it'd be gross overestimation to say that her TK-Saber skills match the likes of Mace and Yoda.If this is Darth Revan, Yoda could Ataru him, or Mace could Vapaad him, even more so for Malak. Kreia's personal saber skills aren't worth a mention. The trio just won't win in sabers.
For use of the Force... it downplays Sidious numero Uno spot to say Yoda couldn't repel any of the trio's Lightning. And I can think of absolutely noting to suggest Yoda and Mace could resist Kreia's Drain, or Sever, or whatever. And I can think of nothing to suggest these PT Top Dogs couldn't resist it either. But I will say that if her Drain/Sever is all powerful then she becomes the ex Machina for all Vs.
Tangible I am not trying to make an argument that the kotor trio will win in a saber contest the PT duo can have it since we do not know the details of the Kotor trio saber skills. But it won't be an easy battle. We do know that each one of the trio were skilled in saber combat. Well at least two and then you have Kreia unique ability with three.
One thing about the trio force techniques. Malak and Kriea has shown force drain. I would argue that Revan knows it also but I will leave that alone. Malak and Revan has shown force lightning.
So you could have two people attack with force drain and one with force lightning or two people who attack with force lightning and one who attacks with force drain.
Scenario I see is that if Malak and Kreia use force drain together on Yoda or Mace that would either one kill them or leave then useless for a while, then the trio will gang up on the one left and take him out.
The same scenario if Malak and Revan used force lightning together on either Mace or Yoda. Then you have the star forge which adds to the dark side powers. I do not see the Jedi winning.
Originally posted by Kotor3Sidious is #1 Sith, above the trio. It's simply fact that Yoda can withstand his Lightning, and Mace can turn it back on him. Not with ease, but it can be done. Revan and Malak (Malak especially) are not on Sidious' tier. Mace's Vapaad WILL soak up their Lightning, and Yoda WILL deflect it.
Tangible I am not trying to make an argument that the kotor trio will win in a saber contest the PT duo can have it since we do not know the details of the Kotor trio saber skills. But it won't be an easy battle. We do know that each one of the trio were skilled in saber combat. Well at least two and then you have Kreia unique ability with three.One thing about the trio force techniques. Malak and Kriea has shown force drain. I would argue that Revan knows it also but I will leave that alone. Malak and Revan has shown force lightning.
So you could have two people attack with force drain and one with force lightning or two people who attack with force lightning and one who attacks with force drain.
Scenario I see is that if Malak and Kreia use force drain together on Yoda or Mace that would either one kill them or leave then useless for a while, then the trio will gang up on the one left and take him out.
The same scenario if Malak and Revan used force lightning together on either Mace or Yoda. Then you have the star forge which adds to the dark side powers. I do not see the Jedi winning.
And again, the Force Drain is quite ambigous, especially outside the games. We know Malak can do it easily on near-dead Jedi noones ever heard of by name. We know Kreia can perform it on at least three exceptional Jedi Masters. Yoda and Mace are two of the most powerful Jedi ever... Malak's will do nothing, and if Yoda and Mace's reputation as the Greatest Foe and Vapaad Master, respectively, hold up... then there's little to indicate Kreia's Drain will do them in. If it can, then she is the single most powerful Sith Lord... and that's not allowed.
In saber combat, again, Malak and Revan won't be able to stand up to Vapaad, Shatterpoint, and Yoda.
Originally posted by Tangible GodWhen I mentioned the lightning, I ATTEMPTED to imply they all use it at once. Lining up and giving it a try one at a time is apparently what your...
For use of the Force... it downplays Sidious numero Uno spot to say Yoda couldn't repel any of the trio's Lightning.
As usual you cherry pick the parts that favor you and ignore what damages your arguement... Just gonna ignore you
P.S. I have addressed my disagreements but, unlike you, will acknowledge that, for the rest of what you siad in that particular post, I agree with so as to not be unclear.
Originally posted by SchwarzeneggerWell no shit he takes somebody with him and that would 99/100 be Malak but the sheer amount of lightning and not to mention that at this point it will be coming from different directions, his life support fails. Maybe he survives the lightning itself like he did in ROTJ, but like then, without his life support, he's ****ed.
Uh he would be able to defeat malak and hold up for a while, considering that TFU just showed how powerful he really is as a combatant thanks to kota and marek.His defeat at the hands of marek only showed how much stronger he really is.
Once again, what indicates they would attempt to strike him with lightning as the first move? What if he struck with a force wave first? What if palpatine unleashed his lightning first? What if sid and vader unleashed massive tk attacks first? What if vader grabs malak in a TK hold and ragdolled him?
Just what makes you think all three are going to strike with lightning first?
Originally posted by Tangible God
Sidious is #1 Sith, above the trio. It's simply fact that Yoda can withstand his Lightning, and Mace can turn it back on him. Not with ease, but it can be done. Revan and Malak (Malak especially) are not on Sidious' tier. Mace's Vapaad WILL soak up their Lightning, and Yoda WILL deflect it.
Tangible you should note that I mention two people using the same force attack on one person. Not that much to argue here but only to give view points. I have noted yours above. You are speculating that Sidious as of ROTS force lightning is more powerful than Revan and Malak combine force lightning. Ok! There are many unknowns here.
Based on the fact that Revan and Malak were both powerful and well versed in force lightning I am going to speculate that Revan and Malak using force lightning at the same time would be more devastating than ROTS Sidious force lightning. Thus even if Yoda could deflect the force attack he would be in no position to help Mace who would already be trying to block a force drain.
Originally posted by Tangible God
And again, the Force Drain is quite ambigous, especially outside the games. We know Malak can do it easily on near-dead Jedi noones ever heard of by name. We know Kreia can perform it on at least three exceptional Jedi Masters.
The fact is that Malak can perform force drain and combine with Kreia's force drain it should prove to be an effective attack. According to my knowledge I have no reason to believe that the PT era Jedi have knowledge of this force technique or how to defend against it.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Yoda and Mace are two of the most powerful Jedi ever... Malak's will do nothing, and if Yoda and Mace's reputation as the Greatest Foe and Vapaad Master, respectively, hold up... then there's little to indicate Kreia's Drain will do them in. If it can, then she is the single most powerful Sith Lord... and that's not allowed.
That definitely cannot be true about Kreia because Sith before here used force drain. It is a technique she learned from Sith teachings while on Malachor V. We also know that the Jedi of old could sever the force from a force user, a similar technique. Mostly likely Jedi and Sith developed techniques to defend against such attacks during the wars between them. The question is do we have any evidence that such knowledge filter down to the PT era since many techniques were lost?
PT era seem to concentrate more on saber skills instead of force techniques. That could be due to lack of knowledge when it came to the force.
Originally posted by Tangible God
In saber combat, again, Malak and Revan won't be able to stand up to Vapaad, Shatterpoint, and Yoda.
Ok.
Originally posted by SchwarzeneggerRead the earlier post, it was a scenario that was presented...
Once again, what indicates they would attempt to strike him with lightning as the first move? What if he struck with a force wave first? What if palpatine unleashed his lightning first? What if sid and vader unleashed massive tk attacks first? What if vader grabs malak in a TK hold and ragdolled him?Just what makes you think all three are going to strike with lightning first?
Too many what ifs dude
Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm going to say Darth Nihilus and Darth Bane.Unique enough answer and...do you really need to ask how?
If it can be asked about Luke and DE Sidious why wouldn't it be able to be done with them?
I already presented a scenario in which the trio could attack. If you present a duo I would appreciate a counter to the attack presented.
Tangible presented some good scenarios for DE and Luke and Yoda and Mace. You are welcome to add.