Originally posted by Kotor3
If it can be asked about Luke and DE Sidious why wouldn't it be able to be done with them?I already presented a scenario in which the trio could attack. If you present a duo I would appreciate a counter to the attack presented.
Tangible presented some good scenarios for DE and Luke and Yoda and Mace. You are welcome to add.
This is on the Star Forge, so Nihilus and Bane both get a very unneccesary boost to their power.
Nihilus waves his hand, severing Traya and Malak at once (he's already done it to Traya, so...). Then he commands Bane to go forth and bring justice to his enemies, IE, only Revan. Bane is puzzled at his inability to use the singular form, but nonetheless, carries out his mission, wiping the floor with Revan in sabers or the Force.
Keep in mind that Bane would get nearly or perhaps even more than double the boost other darksiders would get on the Star Forge. He'd get the same boost as everyone else for using the Dark Side, but also the orbalisks would thrive in that environment, granting him more adrenaline and Dark Side "fuel." It would be enough to handle Revan, easily.
Originally posted by Kotor3Speculate away, but there's nothing to indicate they can beat the most powerful Sith Lord in Force Lightning, and nothing to indicate they can overwhelm the only two Jedi (I think) who have resisted his Lightning.
Based on the fact that Revan and Malak were both powerful and well versed in force lightning I am going to speculate that Revan and Malak using force lightning at the same time would be more devastating than ROTS Sidious force lightning. Thus even if Yoda could deflect the force attack he would be in no position to help Mace who would already be trying to block a force drain.
Originally posted by Kotor3The subject of the Force Drain is iffy at best. Again, there's nothing I can recall to measure Malak's skill in Force Drain. For all we know it's as weak as one of his common Acolyte's or as powerful as Kreia's. And again, there is nothing to indicate if Yoda or Mace would recognize a Force Drain or how thye could deal with it. But I'll say it once more: If Kreia's Force Drain is so powerful as to overhwlem the defences of two of the Order's most prestigous members (one of 'em the 900 year old grandmaster---I doubt Yoda of all PT Jedi wouldn't know of Force Drain), then Kreia's Drain automatically becomes a technique that will blow most competition out of the water.
The fact is that Malak can perform force drain and combine with Kreia's force drain it should prove to be an effective attack. According to my knowledge I have no reason to believe that the PT era Jedi have knowledge of this force technique or how to defend against it.
Originally posted by Kotor3I'll admit, I don't quite know what your talking about here.
That definitely cannot be true about Kreia because Sith before here used force drain. It is a technique she learned from Sith teachings while on Malachor V. We also know that the Jedi of old could sever the force from a force user, a similar technique. Mostly likely Jedi and Sith developed techniques to defend against such attacks during the wars between them. The question is do we have any evidence that such knowledge filter down to the PT era since many techniques were lost?
Originally posted by Kotor3Once more, speculation. I know this is starting to sound resolutely conclusive, but one does not attain Greates Foe blah blah blah for lack of knowledge in the Force.
PT era seem to concentrate more on saber skills instead of force techniques. That could be due to lack of knowledge when it came to the force.
We're pretty much basing all this on the assumption that Rhevan, Malak and Kreia know about Yoda and Mace, and that they'll target the weakest one (Mace) at once.
If Malak's personality is any indication, he'll go straight for the opponent closest to him stature and fierceness--Mace. He'll lose. Revan's is an unknown, but if he Lightning's Yoda or engages him alone (which is likely as someone as intelligent as Revan won't ignore Yoda--leaving himself open to attack) he'll lose. And I see Kreia's three sabers aren't in the first post, so... she she Drains both at once----per game mechanics they lose 1/6 of their HP and keep going----and as I hope I'm not the only one here who immensly dislikes the idea of Kreia's Drain being a one-hit KO, she'll attempt it and weaken the duo, but for the life of me I can't see either dieing by it.
Originally posted by EnyalusNihilus severed Traya from the Force? When was this?
This is on the Star Forge, so Nihilus and Bane both get a very unneccesary boost to their power.Nihilus waves his hand, severing Traya and Malak at once (he's already done it to Traya, so...). Then he commands Bane to go forth and bring justice to his enemies, IE, only Revan. Bane is puzzled at his inability to use the singular form, but nonetheless, carries out his mission, wiping the floor with Revan in sabers or the Force.
Keep in mind that Bane would get nearly or perhaps even more than double the boost other darksiders would get on the Star Forge. He'd get the same boost as everyone else for using the Dark Side, but also the orbalisks would thrive in that environment, granting him more adrenaline and Dark Side "fuel." It would be enough to handle Revan, easily.
Originally posted by Taven
I don't recall it ever being stated either way, but I'm pretty sure the orbalisk were only ever capable of drawing dark side strength from their given host. That they could absorb dark side power from any dark side source is certainly never stated or implied in the source material.
I think it only says something vague like, "Orbalisks draw power from the Dark Side of the Force itself, and magnify the user's power." I don't know for certain, either, though.
Originally posted by KOTOR3
That definitely cannot be true about Kreia because Sith before here used force drain. It is a technique she learned from Sith teachings while on Malachor V. We also know that the Jedi of old could sever the force from a force user, a similar technique. Mostly likely Jedi and Sith developed techniques to defend against such attacks during the wars between them. The question is do we have any evidence that such knowledge filter down to the PT era since many techniques were lost?
Force Drain been around for nearly 100,000 years, when the Sith Order was first founded, actually.
Originally posted by TG
Nihilus severed Traya from the Force? When was this?
In game, of course. 😉 ....Ask Faunus for more specific details, please. I don't remember the exact part.
Originally posted by Enyalus
This is on the Star Forge, so Nihilus and Bane both get a very unneccesary boost to their power.Nihilus waves his hand, severing Traya and Malak at once (he's already done it to Traya, so...). Then he commands Bane to go forth and bring justice to his enemies, IE, only Revan. Bane is puzzled at his inability to use the singular form, but nonetheless, carries out his mission, wiping the floor with Revan in sabers or the Force.
Keep in mind that Bane would get nearly or perhaps even more than double the boost other darksiders would get on the Star Forge. He'd get the same boost as everyone else for using the Dark Side, but also the orbalisks would thrive in that environment, granting him more adrenaline and Dark Side "fuel." It would be enough to handle Revan, easily.
Sticking with the scenario I presented, Nihilus waves his hand at the same time Revan, Malak, and Kreia unleashed there attacks. If Nihilus is able to take them or does as you stated how does he survive force lightning? Mostly likely he would be taken out by the impact of Revan and Malak force lightning attack.
That leaves Bane and Revan. This is up for opinion, handle Revan easily I do not know how you drew that conclusion?
Either way Bane through his admiration for Revan will mostly likely join forces with Revan and Kill Nihilus and Join the trio.
Originally posted by EnyalusWoah... woah! Slow down there... 100 000 years ago? May I ask where THAT Statistic came from?I think it only says something vague like, "Orbalisks draw power from the Dark Side of the Force itself, and magnify the user's power." I don't know for certain, either, though.
Force Drain been around for nearly 100,000 years, when the Sith Order was first founded, actually.
In game, of course. 😉 ....Ask Faunus for more specific details, please. I don't remember the exact part. [/B]
And I don't recall Nihilus ever severing her. I remember Sion beating the shit out of here, and Nihilus standing watching, but that's it.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Speculate away, but there's nothing to indicate they can beat the most powerful Sith Lord in Force Lightning, and nothing to indicate they can overwhelm the only two Jedi (I think) who have resisted his Lightning.
There is nothing to indicate that there combine force lightning attack it not more powerful. Yes as stated already this is an unknown and is up for opinion. I gave my reasons as to why I speculate it would be more powerful. Just because Sidious is the most powerful does not mean he miles away in power. Maybe by DE but I doubt by ROTS. They could be very close for all we know.
Originally posted by Tangible God
The subject of the Force Drain is iffy at best. Again, there's nothing I can recall to measure Malak's skill in Force Drain. For all we know it's as weak as one of his common Acolyte's or as powerful as Kreia's.
Malak was able to force drain and replenish himself at the same time. That takes skill and is something that not even Kreia display. Malak had to be versed in the technique. Malak is a powerful force user, doubt it would be a weak attack.
Originally posted by Tangible God
And again, there is nothing to indicate if Yoda or Mace would recognize a Force Drain or how thye could deal with it. But I'll say it once more: If Kreia's Force Drain is so powerful as to overhwlem the defences of two of the Order's most prestigous members (one of 'em the 900 year old grandmaster---I doubt Yoda of all PT Jedi wouldn't know of Force Drain), then Kreia's Drain automatically becomes a technique that will blow most competition out of the water.
Kreia said it herself 'There are techniques in which there is no defense'. Anyway I already answer this.
Originally posted by Tangible God
I'll admit, I don't quite know what your talking about here.
Basically force drain technique was known by sith and Jedi of old and there had to be defensive techniques against force drain. Was that knowledge pass down to PT era we do not know. I say mostly likely not.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Once more, speculation. I know this is starting to sound resolutely conclusive, but one does not attain Greates Foe blah blah blah for lack of knowledge in the Force.
True but the PT era was not known for force techniques.
Originally posted by Tangible God
We're pretty much basing all this on the assumption that Rhevan, Malak and Kreia know about Yoda and Mace, and that they'll target the weakest one (Mace) at once.
I presented a scenario in which the trio could attack and welcome counters to those attacks from the opposition. It is the one I chose. You answer nicely for Sidious and Luke but now you are basing you argument on the fact that they are powerful force users.
So are the trio and they have the star forge to enhance there ability and knowledge of there environment.
Originally posted by Tangible God
If Malak's personality is any indication, he'll go straight for the opponent closest to him stature and fierceness--Mace. He'll lose. Revan's is an unknown, but if he Lightning's Yoda or engages him alone (which is likely as someone as intelligent as Revan won't ignore Yoda--leaving himself open to attack) he'll lose. And I see Kreia's three sabers aren't in the first post, so... she she Drains both at once----per game mechanics they lose 1/6 of their HP and keep going----and as I hope I'm not the only one here who immensly dislikes the idea of Kreia's Drain being a one-hit KO, she'll attempt it and weaken the duo, but for the life of me I can't see either dieing by it.
That is another way it could go. No comment.
Originally posted by Tangible God
And I don't recall Nihilus ever severing her. I remember Sion beating the shit out of here, and Nihilus standing watching, but that's it. [/B]
Originally posted by Enyalus
I think it only says something vague like, "Orbalisks draw power from the Dark Side of the Force itself, and magnify the user's power." I don't know for certain, either, though.
The source material refers to them as "symbiotic" entities, which would generally indicate that they would only ever be able to feed off of their host.
Originally posted by tulakhordpwnsIt was powerful ass force push and it did enough damage to severely weaken her. She did an almost but not quite on the saber summon. At that point she realized Sion was right there and well...
Kreia says that there are techniques for which there is no defense, then nihilus waves his hand and kreia reaches towards her lightsaber but it does not come to her.
And I think she meant Military/Political/Commander power over the other sith.
Originally posted by DarkSerpent
It was powerful ass force push and it did enough damage to severely weaken her. She did an almost but not quite on the saber summon. At that point she realized Sion was right there and well...
And I think she meant Military/Political/Commander power over the other sith.
EDIT: And LOL at "Taven" downplaying Bane's abilities
Originally posted by Taven
The source material refers to them as "symbiotic" entities, which would generally indicate that they would only ever be able to feed off of their host.
Okay. Let's say you're correct - which I will. Bane gets the Dark Side boost from the Star Forge, the orbalisks feed off of the increased Dark Side power of Bane, and grant him even more power. It works out the same as I initially said, just that in my scenario the power's external, and in your scenario, Bane's source of power would be more internal (which I believe to be superior anyway). 😉
Originally posted by EnyalusI could argue that when she meant "i was stripped of my power", it could simply mean that the "power" was in reference to her being the head of the sith triumviate.In game, of course. 😉 ....Ask Faunus for more specific details, please. I don't remember the exact part. [/B]