As a representative force of chaos, Darth Nihilus is unique. As a veritable force of nature trapped in the shell of a man, he is not. Nihilus drained the Force from his victims on a massive scale to satiate his hunger, such was the depth of his depravity. Palpatine's goals were something similar, except he intended to apoethesize himself and then consume the beings and consciousness of the denizens of the universe into his very being. Hence why his presence was an even greater blight on the Force than Nihilus's own. They are essentially the same except Nihilus was very short-term and out of control.
For what its worth, I don't think Faunus meant that Nihilus was unique in regards to 'He's not just a man with the power of a god', only to the part about 'he's simply chaos given form'.
I agree with both you and Faunus there.
Hence why his presence was an even greater blight on the Force than Nihilus's own.
That's where I would disagree, for the most part. Sidious isn't a wound in the Force, which Nihilus is. Really, by that alone it makes Nihilus a bigger blight. That, and the fact that he essentially feeds on the Force, which - were the Force sentient - I'm sure it wouldn't like.
If you are saying that Sidious was a bigger threat to life than Nihilus was, I would agree only insofar as his Dark Empire incarnation is concerned. Prior to that, Nihilus kills on a much more massive scale. Even without trying, simply being around him for prolonged periods causes beings to die.
Palpatine's goals were something similar, except he intended to apoethesize himself and then consume the beings and consciousness of the denizens of the universe into his very being.
I've seen you mention this once before, but I'm unaware of it. I thought that Palpatine's goal was to rule over the galaxy forever, and that was that. (Trivialized, I know. But you get my drift.)
Originally posted by Enyalus
That's where I would disagree, for the most part. Sidious isn't a wound in the Force, which Nihilus is. Really, by that alone it makes Nihilus a bigger blight. That, and the fact that he essentially feeds on the Force, which - were the Force sentient - I'm sure it wouldn't like.
It does not matter. For all of his vaunted status as a wound in the Force, Darth Nihilus's very presence did not bring it out of balance. Despite the fact that he could snuff out all life on a planet rather casually, he wasn't a threat to the Force itself. Palpatine's very existence brought the Force out of balance, blunted Jedi sensitivity, and caused an unprecedented time of darkness over the galaxy. Hence why Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One, was born "in a time of greatest despair" to remove that which was throwing the Force out of balance: Palpatine. Not Nihilus.
If you are saying that Sidious was a bigger threat to life than Nihilus was, I would agree only insofar as his Dark Empire incarnation is concerned. Prior to that, Nihilus kills on a much more massive scale. Even without trying, simply being around him for prolonged periods causes beings to die.
It's a complex argument, you see. That Palpatine's effect on the Force is greater than that of Nihilus isn't arguable. Was he a greater threat to life? Perhaps. Nihilus was driven by perpetual hunger, not by a conscious desire to do evil. The Emperor planned to absorb the denizens of the galaxy into his being before moving on to consume the universe. Moreover, let it be known that Palpatine's parasitic nature is very similar. He was leeching off of the twenty billion denizens of Byss to prolong his own life and transformed the planet into one of the "strongest dark side sites in the whole galaxy" even though he was hardly ever there.
I've seen you mention this once before, but I'm unaware of it. I thought that Palpatine's goal was to rule over the galaxy forever, and that was that. (Trivialized, I know. But you get my drift.)
It's not. A galaxy first, then more, then the whole universe.
Originally posted by EnyalusSo, just because tobin says so makes it so considering that he is a fallible third party character and the fact that he was not actually present at malachor to witness how the ship was actually retrieved from the well. So i guess that means your a transsexual simply because i say so even though i had never met you before nor have any idea how you look like.Pulling his capital ship out of the gravity well on Malachor V with the Force, while holding it together with the Force. I don't care whether or not you discredit it - it was quoted as a feat by more than just Tobin.
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Hell i guess that exar kun is also the most powerful sith lord simply because suvam tam said so.
Oh and substantiate "it was quoted more than just tobin", the loading screen doesn't specifically say he used the force either, it merely stated he got the ravager from malachor to escape imprisonment.
Prove up or drop the whole point.
Originally posted by EnyalusYou don't get my point do you?Okay...? I'm supposed to not consider Nihilus powerful because Darth Vader did the same?? Vader was powerful, without question. Luke Skywalker has also done it.[/B]
Your disputing nihilus #2 simply because of him being "Able to sense every force user in the galaxy"(when infact he couldn't as he didn't sense the remaining jedi masters) other than the other feat of him wiping out katarr.
Originally posted by GideonThe point is, Palpatine had definitive plans and goals. It can be inferred that Nihilus has no real concept of what he's doing, as Traya notes that he will one day turn on the Sith and consume them as well, and travel until there is simply nothing left for him to feed on. Nihilus doesn't really think that way. He just is, and he acts on a single instinct - to satisfy his hunger.
As a representative force of chaos, Darth Nihilus is unique. As a veritable force of nature trapped in the shell of a man, he is not. Nihilus drained the Force from his victims on a massive scale to satiate his hunger, such was the depth of his depravity. Palpatine's goals were something similar, except he intended to apoethesize himself and then consume the beings and consciousness of the denizens of the universe into his very being. Hence why his presence was an even greater blight on the Force than Nihilus's own. They are essentially the same except Nihilus was very short-term and out of control.
Originally posted by Faunus
The point is, Palpatine had definitive plans and goals. It can be inferred that Nihilus has no real concept of what he's doing, as Traya notes that he will one day turn on the Sith and consume them as well, and travel until there is simply nothing left for him to feed on. Nihilus doesn't really think that way. He just is, and he acts on a single instinct - to satisfy his hunger.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the KotOR II staff simply gave DE Sidious a new name and made him less of a dick. I think it's fascinating to compare the two and speculate why Sidious is ultimately worse.
Gideon, your arguments are pretty. I like them. I'll concede.
Originally posted by Big S
You don't get my point do you?Your disputing nihilus #2 simply because of him being "Able to sense every force user in the galaxy"(when infact he couldn't as he didn't sense the remaining jedi masters) other than the other feat of him wiping out katarr.
Yes, I get it. But you should know that I didn't rank him #2 only because he was able to sense every Force user in the galaxy. He also has amazing telekinetic power. And has killed off an entire world populated by Force-adepts and Jedi, instantly. Just because I did not specify that in that post doesn't mean I haven't elsewhere, or in other posts in this very thread.
But, I notice you do this a lot. You argue without giving opinions of your own. And, I'm wondering why? Do you think Nihilus is the second most powerful Sith Lord? If not, who do you think that would be and why? I mean, I don't have a monopoly on opinions - feel free to give me some of your own.
Do you agree that Nihilus and Bane as a team can take the Sith Trio KOTOR posted? Yes, no, why? Et cetera.
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the KotOR II staff simply gave DE Sidious a new name and made him less of a dick. I think it's fascinating to compare the two and speculate why Sidious is ultimately worse.
Sidious is worse because he's consciously evil and chooses to be so. Nihilus' hunger dominates him. Essentially, he can't help himself. Sidious does have a choice - and I think it makes him far more repugnant.
Originally posted by GideonI agree in that Sidious is ultimately worse because, you know, he does stuff. But Nihilus and Sidious aren't remotely alike. I fail to see the apparently numerous similarities.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the KotOR II staff simply gave DE Sidious a new name and made him less of a dick. I think it's fascinating to compare the two and speculate why Sidious is ultimately worse.
Originally posted by Faunus
I agree in that Sidious is ultimately worse because, you know, he does stuff.
Eh? Well, obviously Sidious is more evil. But why was he the greater threat to the Force?
But Nihilus and Sidious aren't remotely alike. I fail to see the apparently numerous similarities.
Here: they're both galactic parasites, both drain others to prolong their lives, both want to keep going until they've consumed everything.
Originally posted by GideonI'm going to stop here, because I have no idea where this is going. I'm lost.
Eh? Well, obviously Sidious is more evil. But why was he the greater threat to the Force?
Here: they're both galactic parasites, both drain others to prolong their lives, both want to keep going until they've consumed everything.And those three qualities make him a Sidious-knockoff? In that case, Anakin is basically an angry Luke clone, because he's immeasurably powerful, reckless, forms "dangerous" attachments, and gets his hand chopped off.
Seriously, three minor similarities do not constitute a rehashed character.
Jesus, my brain is failing. I must sleep...
Originally posted by EnyalusI know, sorry if i forgot to specify properly what i was trying to imply.Yes, I get it. But you should know that I didn't rank him #2 only because he was able to sense every Force user in the galaxy.
Originally posted by EnyalusHe also has amazing telekinetic power. And has killed off an entire world populated by Force-adepts and Jedi, instantly.
I agree with the amazing feat of him killing the entire planet population, but again i don't think it was instant considering the planets size. But i still however, absolutely do not agree with his "amazing telekinetic power" because there simply isn't anything to substantiate that claim.
I asked you(and i had asked several members in KMC for years to prove that he actually did drag an entire ship out of the well, and nobody could find any concrete evidence to prove that).
Originally posted by Enyalus
But, I notice you do this a lot. You argue without giving opinions of your own. And, I'm wondering why? Do you think Nihilus is the second most powerful Sith Lord? If not, who do you think that would be and why? I mean, I don't have a monopoly on opinions - feel free to give me some of your own.
I didn't give opinions because i didn't feel like so, but since you asked i DO agree with nihilus being in the top, however i don't agree with him being #2 because there other candidates with a higher force mastery and knowledge of the force.
I don't even know if nihilus "sever force uber techique" can be controlled considering that it was stated that all life dies, sacrificing itself to his hunger(it came from visas) and that it gets active when he hungers.
Because of these few controversies(they are to me), i can't exactly give him a solid number on the top 10 list but you have your own opinion so i'll respect that 🙂
Originally posted by EnyalusIf the situation and circumstances favour them, why not?
Do you agree that Nihilus and Bane as a team can take the Sith Trio KOTOR posted? Yes, no, why? Et cetera.
We don't know what exactly would happen, but this is all hypothetical.
If nihilus is in a state of hunger and needs to feed, he most likely would feed of the few of them provided they don't kill him first, i don't think its that easy for him to kill off 3 powerful force users at once but with bane at his side...
Originally posted by GideonOh. You need to communicate more effectively. It's like you have an online lisp, plus you can't make an "r" sound, and you have no teeth. Which would make your lisp impossible...
I'm not dismissing him as a knockoff, you douche. 😠
But everything about Nihilus can be found in the DESB for Sidious. And I think they are fascinating to compare.
Anyway, yeah, I think I get you. Nihilus is simple enough to fit into a description of Palpatine. Yes?
Originally posted by Big S
I asked you(and i had asked several members in KMC for years to prove that he actually did drag an entire ship out of the well, and nobody could find any concrete evidence to prove that).
Well, Tobin says that "He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor," and that it was "a measure of his power." Now, he couldn't have gotten another ship to tow it or pull it out. Why? Because the Mass Shadows Generator was still active and would have pulled any ship attempting to rescue it down to the planet, crushing it. Furthermore, why would outside help be indictative as a measure of his power?
The logical answer there is that it wouldn't. Regarding Tobin being a fallible third party, this is true. However, Tobin is a member of the crew of the Ravager so he has active knowledge of the ship, its history, and its owner - he isn't a completely ignorant speculating third-party. Added to this, Tobin is practically dead - why would he lie?
The other quotes which say essentially the same thing, but more vague, only confirm what Tobin says. Why would they repeat the same thing one of their characters have already said? So, they quote it a different way, pointing to what Tobin has already said.
It's okay to draw conclusions if the evidence is there. It's circumstantial, but it makes sense.
The rest of your post, very cool. 👆
Originally posted by EnyalusThe logical answer there is that it wouldn't. Regarding Tobin being a fallible third party, this is true. However, Tobin is a member of the crew of the Ravager so he has active knowledge of the ship, its history, and its owner - he isn't a completely ignorant speculating third-party. Added to this, Tobin is practically dead - why would he lie?
The rest of your post, very cool. 👆 [/B]
Then this brings up a few points that need to be addressed.
1)Where did tobin get this info from?
2)How do you know he is really telling the truth? Considering that an out of universe source never mentioned nihilus lifting a ship(the loading screen)
3) For how long has tobin been a crew of the ravager? For what we know, its mere hours or maybe a few days at most.
4)How do you know he is not exaggerating?
5)How do you know he is not speculating?
6)What actual credible source substantiates and back his claims?
7)And do prove that the MSG was still active at the time of his ships retrieval.
Let me substantiate point 3) with something else, i have lived in singapore for 8 years and i still do not know the complete history and every detail that took place in this shit hole for the last 200 years even though i have read countless books and visited so many museums.
The point is i actually had the resources to find out about this country that i currently live in, but even with all these resources i still do not know the exact circumstances and situation that this country had been the past centuries, this brings me to ask, did tobin have anything resource to allow him to know that the ship was lifted from the well? Or was he merely speculating?
Tobin even mentions that nihilus dragged a fleet out, but the funny thing is that we never see this fleet and the loading screen stated that the motive of retrieving the ravager was to escape malachor anyways, this really makes me question his credibilty.
Originally posted by EnyalusThanks 🙂 but you had better not been sarcastic 😠The rest of your post, very cool. 👆 [/B]
EDIT
BTW do you think zayne carrick from the comics is nihilus? Because the only time i will actually like nihilus is when he gets a proper backstory, further character development and some origins.
Thats why i really like characters like bane and vader, because of those 3 elements.
Seriously, nihilus already has the badass look, now he needs a proper backstory and development.
Originally posted by Big S
1)Where did tobin get this info from?
2)How do you know he is really telling the truth? Considering that an out of universe source never mentioned nihilus lifting a ship(the loading screen)
3) For how long has tobin been a crew of the ravager? For what we know, its mere hours or maybe a few days at most.
4)How do you know he is not exaggerating?
5)How do you know he is not speculating?
6)What actual credible source substantiates and back his claims?
7)And do prove that the MSG was still active at the time of his ships retrieval.
1) Don't know. Could be the ship's data banks. Could be Nihilus himself. Such a thing is difficult to randomly make up.
2) Again, the guy is basically dying, plus he's a colonel (military discipline and all). He doesn't have a reason to lie. Why would the writers of KOTOR II wish him to?
3) Tobin becomes a member of the crew after the Malachor incident, and after Visas becomes a member.
4) He mentions that he pulls his fleet out, too. That could be your exaggeration right there.
5) ...Where would he get a random idea to speculate such a thing from? Simple fact was it was shot down and disabled by Mandalorian guns over Malachor, crashed, Mass Shadows Generator activated, [blank] happens, now the Ravager is held together (for the most part - some parts of the ship were even open to space) and flying again. Fill in the blank, using what Tobin and the game developers wrote in.
6) You know that answer already.
7) Nope. 😛 Tobin says, "he tore it from the mass shadows." That's good enough for me.
Tobin even mentions that nihilus dragged a fleet out, but the funny thing is that we never see this fleet and the loading screen stated that the motive of retrieving the ravager was to escape malachor anyways
The motive was to escape with his fleet (like any military commander's objective would be). Who is to say that he didn't?
Just focusing on the Ravager now - there's a bit of evidence that points to the fact that he did use the Force to pull it from the gravity well of Malachor V. There's zero evidence to suggest that he didn't. Thus, the smart thing to do is....
BTW do you think zayne carrick from the comics is nihilus? Because the only time i will actually like nihilus is when he gets a proper backstory, further character development and some origins.Thats why i really like characters like bane and vader, because of those 3 elements.
Seriously, nihilus already has the badass look, now he needs a proper backstory and development.
Nihilus definitely needs a backstory, but I sure as hell hope Zayne is not it. He's more helpless than most women in media are. In issue six of the first arc of KOTOR, when he's threatening to hunt down his masters - he seemed so badass. I was like, "Yeah! Go you." And then...25+ issues of more weakling garbage. It's really frustrating. If they make him Nihilus, he better become very badass, very soon. Given his relative tenderness towards Visas, and Lucien's close friendship with Q'Anilia, it could be that Lucien is Nihilus.
For the record, I like Bane much more as a character over Vader. He's so much more human and compelling.
Originally posted by EnyalusData banks? I thought the entire ship is battered to hell so why would the data banks be functioning in the first place? Or if there was one, who inputted the information there? Nihilus doesn't bother with these things.1) Don't know. Could be the ship's data banks. Could be Nihilus himself. Such a thing is difficult to randomly make up.
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And such things aren't hard to make up, any tom dick and harry can lie, make shit up and make it sound true.
Originally posted by EnyalusThat reason could simply be to intimidate the exile that his master is someone he is in awe off, besides how is anyone suppose to be that diciplined when dark side energies are ravaging your body driving you into madness.2) Again, the guy is basically dying, plus he's a colonel (military discipline and all). He doesn't have a reason to lie. Why would the writers of KOTOR II wish him to?
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Its like getting a simple injection and then exaggerating the pain caused by the needles penetration.
Originally posted by EnyalusNo he was not, anything to back this up? If he was already a crew after the malachor incident, then he would had never left the ship alive and would have been enslaved by nihilus.3) Tobin becomes a member of the crew after the Malachor incident, and after Visas becomes a member.
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Last i recall, he(or vaklu) stated that they "just allied themselves with the sith" during the events of kotor 2.
Originally posted by EnyalusAnd this does catastrophic damage to his credibility.4) He mentions that he pulls his fleet out, too. That could be your exaggeration right there.
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Originally posted by EnyalusMaybe from the fact that he knew the ship was from malachor V in the first place and the fact that the extent of the ships damage led him to believe it was from the gravity well?5) ...Where would he get a random idea to speculate such a thing from? Simple fact was it was shot down and disabled by Mandalorian guns over Malachor, crashed, Mass Shadows Generator activated, [blank] happens, now the Ravager is held together (for the most part - some parts of the ship were even open to space) and flying again. Fill in the blank, using what Tobin and the game developers wrote in.
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Originally posted by EnyalusAnd "tore" is subjective, it could mean force was applied to have something "tore" out of its current position.6) You know that answer already.
7) Nope. 😛 Tobin says, "he tore it from the [b]mass shadows." That's good enough for me.
Like a brick being "tore" out from the bottom of the well.
Originally posted by EnyalusWho is to say he did? Why waste time lifting other damaged unworthy ships and build a fleet consisting of it which would so easily get destroyed by other military ships?The motive was to escape with his fleet (like any military commander's objective would be). Who is to say that he didn't? [/B]
Originally posted by EnyalusTheres actually zero evidence to point out that he did use the force to pull out the ravager from the gravity well other than a statement from a fallible brainwashed third party character.Just focusing on the Ravager now - there's a bit of evidence that points to the fact that he did use the Force to pull it from the gravity well of Malachor V. There's zero evidence to suggest that he didn't. Thus, the smart thing to do is....[/B]
Once again, if he did actually pull out the ship via the force, the loading screen(an out of universe source) would have mentioned him doing so, yet ironically it didn't despite you claiming he did.
Originally posted by EnyalusNow lucien being nihilus would be badass.Nihilus definitely needs a backstory, but I sure as hell hope Zayne is not it. He's more helpless than most women in media are. In issue six of the first arc of KOTOR, when he's threatening to hunt down his masters - he seemed so badass. I was like, "Yeah! Go you." And then...25+ issues of more weakling garbage. It's really frustrating. If they make him Nihilus, he better become very badass, very soon. Given his relative tenderness towards Visas, and Lucien's close friendship with Q'Anilia, it could be that Lucien is Nihilus.
For the record, I like Bane much more as a character over Vader. He's so much more human and compelling. [/B]
Thanks for not attacking me btw.