Originally posted by KOTOR3
Remember Enyalus when I say instantaneous I am referring only to a powerful force user. Kreia force drain was instant so was Nomi force sever on Ulic. So I do recognize the technique to be quick but we have no proof that it would work on or happen quickly to a powerful force user on the level of Kreia or Malak when they are in combat mode.
...So if Kreia's Force Drain was instant, and Nomi's Force Sever was instant, and Nihilus' dark variant of Force Sever on Katarr was instant, and powerful enough to kill an entire conclave of Jedi Knights and Masters, including three members of the High Council, why would you think Nihilus' attack on Kreia and/or Malak would not be? The answer is that it would be.
At this point, look at all of Nihilus' feats, plus the fact that he was only defeated after being severely starved, severely weakened, and still managed to put up an incredible fight against two Jedi Knights and Mandalore the Ultimate, two of whom he wasn't even attempting to kill.
Now, I'm going to ask, in your honest opinion, do you believe Darth Malak when he is off of the Star Forge to be superior in power to Darth Nihilus? My answer is no way in hell. I hope yours will be the same. Thus, at base form we have:
Nihilus > Malak
Nihilus > Traya (by virtue of him utterly dismissing her with a flick of the wrist - it's clear that if he wanted her dead, she would be.)
Now, the boost that Malak received from the Star Forge is great, to be sure. So he's powerful now, that's nice. Nihilus is also going to get the same boost from also being on the Star Forge, and hence - his power is still greater than Malak's or Traya's.
Also Malak and Kreia both were well versed in force drain. Malak could drain and replenish his energy at the same time. I doubt they did not know no defenses to the technique.
Kreia was versed in Force Sever. You can't sever Nihilus, because he's a wound in the Force. Malak knew Force Drain and Life Drain. But as I'm hoping you'll agree, Nihilus' power trumps Malak's (as already shown above). Thus, he wouldn't possess enough power in the Force to overcome Nihilus with that particular technique. In addition to that, as someone around here is so fond of saying, Kreia states that, "There are some techniques for which there is no defense against." Nihilus' Force Sever was never shown to be resisted except by the Exile, who was a wound in the Force herself. There is therefore no evidence nor reason to assume that either one of them would be able to counter or resist Nihilus' power.
You're asking people to prove Nihilus can drain them instantly. All the evidence points to the fact that he can do just that. If you're thinking he cannot, then the burden is on you to prove it. Which is what Serpent and Faunus are getting at.
The point is she did not die from whatever attack Nihilus used.
In the cut scene, does it look like he's trying to kill her? Do you not think that if he wanted to kill her, after waving his hand and completely messing her up, he would have ignited his lightsaber and cut her into pieces before she could even get up? Or Force Choke her to death? Or use his TK to toss her through the academy wall like a ragdoll?
He didn't want her dead, that's the simple answer.
Enyalus, Kreia kill three with a wave of her hand also and called them weak before disposing of them. Not one person you mention remotely compares to Kreia or Malak in power. I am not going to even get into a discussion about Nihilus being more powerful than Malak. Nihilus only had one special technique.
Kreia can kill three Jedi Masters who she calls weak with a wave of her hand. Nihilus killed millions of Force sensitives and at minimum, a dozen Jedi. Three of whom were on the Jedi High Council - which means they were far more powerful than three 'weak Jedi Masters'.
Moreover, Nihilus has the most powerful form of Force Sever ever seen, he demonstrates his stasis ability by casually freezing three combatants (two powerful Force users) at once, and the most powerful telekinesis display ever seen.
Malak has Force Drain that won't affect Nihilus if Nihilus is stronger (which he is), and...what else, exactly? Force Lightning? Which we have no clue how powerful it is, but I will repost what I said before:
You only specified All-out, which means Nihilus would have his lightsaber. If Darth Bane's lightning - which disintegrates humans, severely chars 30 meter long drexls, and tears through Jedi Masters shields like paper - can be blocked by Raskta's lightsaber, I find it hard to believe Nihilus would be unable to do the same.
I'll add to that the fact that AOTC Obi-Wan was able to block Count Dooku's (one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever) Force Lightning casually with his lightsaber.
In other words, Malak's lightning is not going to be a problem for Nihilus to deal with. His Force Drain won't work. What else is there that he has, which makes you think he can compete with Darth Nihilus here?
How does Nihilus compare to Yoda who blocked force lightning from the most powerful sith lord ever with his bare hands? Malak nor Revan is weak in power. A combine force lightning attack from them block by Nihilus. Get real!
I would like to point out that two Force users using Force Lightning does not double the power or effect of the Lightning, it merely makes it cover more area and might take more concentration to block or deflect. Raskta was able to block a dozen arcs of Darth Bane's lightning at once, for instance. Even though I doubt Nihilus is as fast as Raskta, it isn't totally unreasonable to say that he would be able to block or deflect it.
Also, Darth Sidious, whose Force Lightning is widely acknowledged to be most powerful version of it, has taken his hits from his own attack at least twice (once when Mace Windu redeflects it, and once when Marek rechannels it). Yet, Sidious managed to survive and didn't even seem hurt badly. It's not unreasonable to think that even if Nihilus was hit with one gout of lightning, he would survive. Remember that Nihilus will be at his peak, not starved or weakened, plus empowered by the Star Forge.
Nevertheless, I realize my answer is full of speculation and probably not satisfying to you. So I'm going to say that he won't be hit by two Force Lightning attacks at once. Why? Responding to your scenario post:
Remember the scenario you presented against the one I did. Nihilus waves his hand to force drain Kreia and Malak. This happens at the same time Revan and Malak attack with force lightning.
Here is one of my scenarios as a counter example and reasoning why Nihilus will not have to deal with two Force Lightning attacks:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and allowing for The Trio to get their attacks in first, even though Nihilus waving his hand once is going to take less time than Malak and Revan shooting gouts of Lightning out.
The attack comes out. Nihilus makes an initial parry or deflection, but for argument's sake let's say he's getting overwhelmed. Well, Bane isn't going to just stand there. So Bane either uses his Force Scream, which blew four Jedi backwards about thirty feet, or Force Push, which completely exploded most of the foundation of an old temple, collapsing it totally. Keep in mind that since that time, he's had ten years of training and studying Revan's holocron, he's picked up two more holocrons, he's picked up the orbalisks who amp his Dark Side power, and he's on the Star Forge, meaning he's going to be amped even more.
Now, you cannot attack with the Force and defend with the Force at the same time. So, you can't use Force Lightning while using Force Shield. Each one takes concentration, each one takes a completely different kind of concentration. So either the Trio is hit and tossed back/dead from having their bones shattered, or they manage to cut their attack off and shield themselves in time (highly unlikely, but let's go with that instead).
Now Nihilus is free, he waves his hand, and say for arguments sake that he isn't able to kill them, but reduces Kreia and Malak to what he did with Traya during the cut scene - knocking them on their asses and messing up their Force connection. This has been proven to be within his capabilities, and thus I'll use it because it's been proven.
This is going to leave Malak and Kreia virtually helpless, while Nihilus and Bane are free to deal with Revan. Now then, let's say Bane fires off a blast of Force Lightning at Revan (probably blocked), to distract Revan from noticing that Nihilus has just glided over to Malak and Traya and casually beheaded them with his lightsaber.
It's now two on one, Bane who is virtually unbeatable in a duel with double the amp from Star Forge and orbalisk, added to his already considerable power, along with Darth Nihilus - probably the second most powerful Sith ever...against a practical unknown.
Thus, Revan dies. That's my counter scenario, and I think I was very reasonable in not simply saying, "Nihilus waves his hand and kills Malak and Traya, Bane solos Revan." Which probably could happen very easily.
Everything else has pretty much been said and argued for by Faunus, which is spot on.