Trinity Superman vs. Red Hulk

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
No, you implied that since it hasn't happened, it can't happen. Although subtle, it is still a No-Limits fallacy.

Good.

If this Thor went all out, he might beat Superman, might not, I don't know. But, if he trys to brawl like he did against Rulk, he will lose.

Gladiator's power is like getting drunk and taking a girl home with you, ya never know what you're gonna get.

His power is pretty random is my point. Depending on his confidence level it jumps all over the place.

And...Gladiator fought like an idiot.

Standing in arm's length of Hulk firing heatvision to no avail? 😐

Come on. 😬

Gladaitor used his powers,so why are you trying to downplay it. It seems you keep ignoring proof.

How did Gladiator fight like an idiot? Please do tell.

Did you read the fight?

His confidence wasnt an issue in the comic they fought,so why assume it was an issue.

Rulk also beat this Thor force Thor easier than Supes beat classic Thor. Much easier,and they all brawled.

Originally posted by Allankles
Again, Konvikt was a problem Superman and company weren't willing to dally with, because there were human bystanders. They wanted to put him away definitively without causing unecessary collateral damage, given their circumstance.

A Rulk fight in this instance takes place outside the bounds of the DC setting so there'll be no such constraints. Furthermore Trinity Superman showed what he can do when doesn't have to suffer such constraints when he took on the Criminal Syndicate .

Supes wasnt holding back on WW in issue 219. he didnt destroy even a city and he was sunamped. so,really I dont even get what you are saying.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Another case of PIS... Anyone not on supes level in speed hitting him is a case of PIS IMO. Especially if they are actually fighting when it happens.

Here is all I am saying, You say rulk will curbstomp supes, and I say why? Give me some valid feats that prove beyond all doubt that he could. Superman can fly and is fast enough to make the rulk a statue to him, so how can the rulk logically hit him if superman is going all out? That is the point of this board, to debate logically. Which you are not. You for some reason cannot accept that because something happens in a comic, doesn't mean that it SHOULD have happened. Like spiderman hitting the silver surfer. Never should have happened. Surfer owns him for the entire fight, and then runs into spideys fist. A clear case of PIS and SvFL, same as rulk beating Thor. Now if they throw some flight and super speed into the mix for rulk, then we have a different story entirely.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Sorry, but ABC logic doesn't fly around here. I have to wonder at this point are you seriously this much of a fanboy or are you just trolling? Do you even know what PIS, CIS, or SvFL are?

He might speed blitz Rulk,but will it get him the win. Nope. Rulk has shit all over the Thor who is a virtual equal to Superman. Rulk hasnt even been put down and like I just said,shit on a character who Superman barely beat at classic levels.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You cant call everyone Supes appearance pis when he doesnt use superspeed. Its in his character to brawl with his opponents. I do know what they are. But I dont use excuses for debates. Supes has fought many opponents without speed blitzing. In fact,I think it is safe to say that he uses the speed blitz far less than he uses it.

He might speed blitz Rulk,but will it get him the win. Nope. Rulk has shit all over the Thor who is a virtual equal to Superman. Rulk hasnt even been put down and like I just said,shit on a character who Superman barely beat at classic levels.

That is a PERFECT example of PIS. Superman not speedblitzing EVERY single opponent. He has the powerset to do so, yet doesn't. Why? Because the comic would suck. So they set up the plot so that Superman doesn't use his powers as effectively as he should. Hence PIS. I thought you said you knew what it was? If so, why then, did you give perfect examples of it? It isn't an excuse, it is a fact that superman posses that sort of speed, and for him to not use it when it makes sense, is PIS.

I honestly don't know if Superman could beat rulk or not in a brawl because of rulk's insane healing and durability, but he could easily BFR him.

You also keep talking about Gladiator and Thor, well Superman is not gladiator nor Thor, so you can't assume he could beat Superman because he beat gladiator and Thor.

Also when superman and Thor fought, that's not cannon, so doesn't count in the first place. Secondly, Do you really think DC or Marvel is going to let 2 of their premiers get shit on, as you so eloquently put it, by a rivals character? No.

Regardless, you say rulk can beat Superman, I say prove it via his powerset. I don't believe rulk has the speed to get it done. Next you will be saying rulk can beat the surfer or thanos.

I think the problem here lies in the fact that you don't seem to want to follow the board rules. It is stated we assume that both figth to the best of their abilities unless th OP states otherwise. If he had said this was an in character fight, I would give the rulk a shot, but he didn't so I give him maybe 1 out of 10...

Originally posted by snyper1982
That is a PERFECT example of PIS. Superman not speedblitzing EVERY single opponent. He has the powerset to do so, yet doesn't. Why? Because the comic would suck. So they set up the plot so that Superman doesn't use his powers as effectively as he should. Hence PIS. I thought you said you knew what it was? If so, why then, did you give perfect examples of it? It isn't an excuse, it is a fact that superman posses that sort of speed, and for him to not use it when it makes sense, is PIS.

I honestly don't know if Superman could beat rulk or not in a brawl because of rulk's insane healing and durability, but he could easily BFR him.

You also keep talking about Gladiator and Thor, well Superman is not gladiator nor Thor, so you can't assume he could beat Superman because he beat gladiator and Thor.

Also when superman and Thor fought, that's not cannon, so doesn't count in the first place. Secondly, Do you really think DC or Marvel is going to let 2 of their premiers get shit on, as you so eloquently put it, by a rivals character? No.

Regardless, you say rulk can beat Superman, I say prove it via his powerset. I don't believe rulk has the speed to get it done. Next you will be saying rulk can beat the surfer or thanos.

I think the problem here lies in the fact that you don't seem to want to follow the board rules. It is stated we assume that both figth to the best of their abilities unless th OP states otherwise. If he had said this was an in character fight, I would give the rulk a shot, but he didn't so I give him maybe 1 out of 10...

Originally posted by quanchi112
We arent arguing powersets here. Its whats in each of these characters. You havent even proven that he could beat Rulk with a speedblitz. 😬 Rulk has beaten what many would argue is a much more powerful Thor,than what Superman faced off against. Rulk hasnt been beaten by a top tier. Supes got beat up badly by Konvikt. Who possesses no superspeed. 😛

I think you need to take a look at the rules buddy... Powersets are exactly what we debate on here unless the OP states otherwise, which he didn't. Let me list just a few of the rules you are breaking...

No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

Originally posted by snyper1982
I think you need to take a look at the rules buddy... Powersets are exactly what we debate on here unless the OP states otherwise, which he didn't. Let me list just a few of the rules you are breaking...

[B]No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels. [/B]

Supes tends to brawl with brawlers. 😬

Originally posted by quanchi112
Within the character's personality. Thanks.

Supes tends to brawl with brawlers. 😬

Oh my god... Whatever. He has speedblitzed many, many opponents. It is well within his character to do so. He doesn't even NEED to speedblitz though because he can dodge anything thrown by the rulk... Again, barring PIS, how does the rulk hit him? Oh thats right, he can't.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Oh my god... Whatever. He has speedblitzed many, many opponents. It is well within his character to do so. He doesn't even NEED to speedblitz though because he can dodge anything thrown by the rulk... Again, barring PIS, how does the rulk hit him? Oh thats right, he can't.

Rulk eats top tiers. He will eat Supes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Konvikt hit him. That wasnt pis. Atlas hit him. Zod hit him. WW has hit him. Darkseid has hit him. Orion has hit him. Doomsday has hit him. Henshaw has hit him.

Rulk eats top tiers. He will eat Supes.

Dude. I am done. I am trying to debate logically and by the rules, and you just can't seem to do that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Konvikt hit him.

Ok, and Konvikt seems to have some sort of enhanced speed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That wasnt pis. Atlas hit him.

Storyline is not over yet...this may be an acceptable instance though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Zod hit him.

Kryptonian with superspeed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
WW has hit him.

The speed of ares....

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid has hit him.

And he has superspeed...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Orion has hit him.

Who also has superspeed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Doomsday has hit him.

...and DD has superspeed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Henshaw has hit him.

Who also has superspeed and kryptonian biology.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rulk eats top tiers. He will eat Supes.

Supes has knocked out his fair share of top tiers. Rulk can still be one shotted to space. 6 or 7 out of 8 there were poor examples. Atlas the jury is still out on.

I think Atlas is perfectly valid. And as much as I think Rulk is a bad plot device, I think one on one he would take it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We arent arguing powersets here. Its whats in each of these characters. You havent even proven that he could beat Rulk with a speedblitz. 😬 Rulk has beaten what many would argue is a much more powerful Thor,than what Superman faced off against. Rulk hasnt been beaten by a top tier. Supes got beat up badly by Konvikt. Who possesses no superspeed. 😛

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
superman wouldnt be brawling against red hulk, which is the only way red hulk has beaten any of his opponents

Didn't look much like Rulk's actual punches were hurting Thor too much. And he did get hit by more than a couple. But I guess he's just not used to getting bashed around with Mjolnir. Why would he? It's his damn weapon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let's not allow our hatred of Loeb to overshadow the fact that Rulk didn't beat Thor because Thor was brawling. He beat him through his durability and tactics. Yes, Thor could have BFR'ed him. But past that, what? If a Mjolnir shot to the face isn't going to make him flinch, a blast of Asgardian magic wasn't going to do it either. Lightning would probably make him giggle. Throwing Mjolnir from afar? Still wouldn't do anything. Without BFR, Thor had to get up close and personal. He brawls with the best of them. What's Superman going to do that Thor couldn't? Freeze breathe? Speculative heat vision lobotomy? He's done that to Manchester Black (hardly Rulk durability)... and... ?

Didn't look much like Rulk's actual punches were hurting Thor too much. And he did get hit by more than a couple. But I guess he's just not used to getting bashed around with Mjolnir. Why would he? It's his damn weapon.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
pressure points, and hitting Red Hulk into space would be effective as well

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Where were all of these exotic moves that you seem to be talking about when Superman was getting shyt stomped by Atlas recently? Atlas is just a brick right?

Why do people keep doing this? Different writers different story archs. Read the thread title. Trinity Superman analyzes his opponents and then breaks them down systematically. The Atlas fight was a bit odd, considering Superman has already handled bricks with more exotic abilities than Atlas in the same continuity.

That's irrelevant though, this is Trinity Supes. And even before Trinity in action comics he's taken people out using his powers to lobotomize and screw with his opponents internal organs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We only can debate about what Loeb has given us. Otherwise, there is no red hulk.

As I said I have nothing against Rulk's existence, my only issue is with the poor battles Loeb has written. The Thor fight was bs. The canon status of the beat down doesn't take away the fact that the fight was crafted poorly, with very little consideration to Thor's skills.

Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
I think Atlas is perfectly valid. And as much as I think Rulk is a bad plot device, I think one on one he would take it.

Atlas isn't valid because this is Trinity Superman. In fact until Atlas abilities have been expounded that fight should be taken with a grain of salt. I read an interview with Robinson and co. where they said they'll explore Atlas more, and they plan on making him a significant fixture in Superman's rogue's gallery, so he needs a little more exposure before we start assuming Atlas = Rulk or whatever.

Originally posted by Allankles
Why do people keep doing this? Different writers different story archs. Read the thread title. Trinity Superman analyzes his opponents and then breaks them down systematically. The Atlas fight was a bit odd, considering Superman has already handled bricks with more exotic abilities than Atlas in the same continuity.

That's irrelevant though, this is Trinity Supes. And even before Trinity in action comics he's taken people out using his powers to lobotomize and screw with his opponents internal organs.

Are you saying that Trinity Superman is a parallel universe Superman? Is he not the same Superman that fought Doomsday, or Atlas? Please clarify.