TFU Sidious vs. Galen Marek and TFU Vader

Started by Schwarzenegger9 pages
Schwarzenegger Restricted

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
So... what you're saying is that Galen underestimated Vader, then was surprised by his true power, and Vader capatilized on his momentary surprise and pelted him with objects using the force. Great. Summary.
No.

the apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Vader's misses had been horribly near."

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a single stroke. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses

^ This was when galen took vader seriously and not underestimate him and much later in the duel, before galen got the upperhand.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

Galen is surprised. Galen stops underestimating Vader. Vader ends up nearly getting his chest sliced in half and ends up laying on the floor with his lite-brite asthma helmet in shambles around him. The end.
Wrong, galen stops underestimating, takes vader more seriously, they fight more and more and more, then galen gets the upperhand, chops vader and then drops 2 pillars on an unsuspecting vader, minutes later, vader gets up, ready to fight somemore.

Canon and gideon > you.

From gideon The apprentice then saw that the Emperor was enjoying the duel, and realized that he can't beat Vader fighting out of anger. After nearly being throttled to death, the apprentice blasts Vader across the room -- Vader landed on his feat.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

No. Surprising an opponent who is underestimating you, in the beggining of the fight, does not mean much. What usually happens in the beggining of a fight is that the fighters test each other and then when they're confident in knowing the other's ability they attack accordingly. The things that go on in the beggining of a fight don't matter nearly as much as the middle, and most importantly, the end.

Vader only surpirsed galen at the start of the duel and after that they were on equal footing, galen STILL didn't "pwn","rape" or "beat vader" or even got the upperhand. That was MUCH later on.

The novel and gideon > you fullstop

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

Once Galen realized what he was up against he fought harder, and shortly thereafter Vader lost.
Once again zeh great gideon and the novel says your wrong, they fight alot longer and THEN when galen achieves his clarity much later in the duel(which anakin/vader only did against his duel with dooku), he gets the upperhand and smashs vader.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

This is all irrelevent, though. Fact of the matter is that evenn if Galen didn't rape him, he beat him legitemately, and straight up, no holds barred.

No, he beat vader becaused he managed to throw several support beans and 2 pillars on vader, he couldn't break through his defences and resorted to his sorroundings, the same could have happened to galen, but its that he managed to get the advantage first.

Read the novel, it made it clear that galen was nearly smashed to pieces several times during their duel on the death star or even ask gideon for clarification.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And what the **** is this? You're contradicting yourself.
My apologies.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
The ****? You didn't mention Gideon or the EU section even once until just this post.. You've only mentioned the novel.

I insult in retaliation. You've gotten in trouble many times for your temper, man, You should know better by now.

Read the novel, it made it clear that galen was nearly smashed to pieces several times during their duel on the death star or even ask gideon for clarification.

And i actually assumed that you knew there was a TFU novel thread, my apologies then.

Faunus Boss

Ivalice, calm the hell down. Blax is completely right here; you posted three segments of the duel that somehow display Vader's parity with Galen, while ignoring everything else. They aren't far apart, but Marek is firmly better. Younger, faster, more powerful. And I'd advise you not to bring up the cutscenes, since they feature Vader getting raped to an embarrassing degree. Marek cuts his ankle, knocks him down, slashed his mask off, picks up and slams him face-first into something hot, and then throws him through a wall.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Did you actually read the novel or paid any attention? Vader kicked the shit out of galen MANY times throughout their duel and nearly [b]killed galen until galen started throwing pillars at an unsuspecting vader?

Hell read the comic or even watch the cutscenes, vader still had the strength to STAND up and PREPARE for another fight despite getting "raped".

Read the novel, it made it clear that galen was nearly smashed to pieces several times during their duel on the death star or even ask gideon for clarification. [/B]


That is incorrect Vader force pushed Galen back, and retreated into another room. Galen followed him Vader threw a pillar at Galen, he pushed it back and while Vader was on the floor Galen smashed him with Pillars. Then he proceeded to WTF pwn Vader in a short saber skirmish. Vader NEVER had the upper hand, force pushing someone back does not count, as seconds later Galen is destroying Vader with the force. Vader does in a sense get raped. I mean, were it not for his armor Vader's head would have been chopped in half. Now I'm in no way stating that Galen>>>>>>>Luke no it would be a close ass match, but Marek has displayed things that put him against ROTS Luke. And what do you mean unsuspecting, Galen's used the force to counter a pillar VADER threw at him. Its Vaders own fault for starting a force war he could not win. Besides nothing prevented Vader from stopping the three pillars that crashed on him except the fact that the quick secession of Galen's attacks simply overwhelmed the Dark Lord. Galen>Vader. And Vader never "pwns" Galen, he stabs him in the back and throws a table at him, all of which Vader had the element of suprise. 😛

DarkSerpent Restricted

Why are ya'll talking about RAPE so casually that it seems like rape is an acceptable form of communication?

Did I start this?

If so, damn I'm sorry.

Schwarzenegger Restricted

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That is incorrect Vader force pushed Galen back, and retreated into another room. Galen followed him Vader threw a pillar at Galen, he pushed it back and while Vader was on the floor Galen smashed him with Pillars. Then he proceeded to WTF pwn Vader in a short saber skirmish. Vader NEVER had the upper hand, force pushing someone back does not count, as seconds later Galen is destroying Vader with the force. `
Right, and all that was from GAMEPLAY mechanics, nice attempt. If we allow gameplay into the issue then vader, ben kenobi , sidious all can topple buildings, wipe out hundreds of soldiers and destroy ATAT tanks and crush jabba's palace(Empire at war).

Originally posted by Faunus
Ivalice, calm the hell down. Blax is completely right here; you posted three segments of the duel that somehow display Vader's parity with Galen, while ignoring everything else. They aren't far apart, but Marek is firmly better. Younger, faster, more powerful. And I'd advise you not to bring up the cutscenes, since they feature Vader getting raped to an embarrassing degree. Marek cuts his ankle, knocks him down, slashed his mask off, picks up and slams him face-first into something hot, and then throws him through a wall.
Fair enough, but those "cut scenes" was gameplay anyways now that i realised it.

NonSensi-Klown Restricted

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
No.

the apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Vader's misses had been horribly near."

Which, according to the text, happened immedietly after Vader pelted him with the force, which happened immedietly after vader initially surprised him with the strength of his attacks.

Wrong, galen stops underestimating, takes vader more seriously, they fight more and more and more, then galen gets the upperhand, chops vader and then drops 2 pillars on an unsuspecting vader, minutes later, vader gets up, ready to fight somemore.

The text you quoted doesn't state that.

From gideon: The apprentice then saw that the Emperor was enjoying the duel, and realized that he can't beat Vader fighting out of anger.

He's referring to his emotional state, not his skills. You can't fight very well when you're blind with rage. See Anakin vs. Obi-Wan on Mustafar for details.

Vader only surpirsed galen at the start of the duel and after that they were on equal footing, galen STILL didn't "pwn","rape" or "beat vader" or even got the upperhand. That was MUCH later on.

Post the details...

Once again zeh great gideon

First off, no offense at all intended, get your head out of Gideon's ass. I won't deny that he is an extremely knowledgeble and good debater, but the sheer level of ass kissing some of you people give to him is sickening. It's reaching Janus reach-around levels of ridiculous. So far all you're doing is quoting "Sir" Gideon this, and the great Gideon says that. When Gideon comes in here himself and talks to me, I'll care.

and the novel says your wrong, they fight alot longer and THEN when galen achieves his clarity much later in the duel(which anakin/vader only did against his duel with dooku), he gets the upperhand and smashs vader.

So what you're saying is that when Galen gets serious and stops dicking around he rapes him. Okay.

No, he beat vader becaused he managed to throw several support beans and 2 pillars on vader, he couldn't break through his defences and resorted to his sorroundings,

he sliced his respirator in half prior to force raping him.

the same could have happened to galen, but its that he managed to get the advantage first.

I seem to remember Vader surrounding him in a whirlwind of objects first, but failing to kill him. hm...

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

No its not gameplay its SCRIPTED all you do is press buttons, but the ends of the duels are not under your control you have to end the duel that way. So no its not gameplay mechanics. Those final moments are just interactive cutscenes. Its just as canon as Marek blowing himself up. Are you saying he didn't kill Shaak Ti by electrocuting her Saarlac if not the. Fail.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Fair enough, but those "cut scenes" was gameplay anyways now that i realised it.
No. As Mizukage put it, they're scripted events that have to happen. They're as canon as the rendered cut-scenes themselves.

DarkSerpent Restricted

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Which, according to the text, happened immedietly after Vader pelted him with the force, which happened immedietly after vader initially surprised him with the strength of his attacks.

The text you quoted doesn't state that.

From gideon [i]The apprentice then saw that the Emperor was enjoying the duel, and realized that [b]he can't beat Vader fighting out of anger

he's referring to his emotional state, not his skills. You can't fight very well when you're blind with rage. See Anakin vs. Obi-Wan on Mustafar for details.

Post the details...

First off, get your head out of Gideon's ass. I won't deny that he is an extremely knowledgeble and good debater, but the sheer elvel of ass kissing some of you people give to him is sickening. It's reaching Janus reach-around levels of ridiculous. So far all you're doing is quoting "Sir" Gideon this, and the great Gideon says that. When Gideon comes in here himself and talks to me, I'll care.

So what you're saying is that when Galen gets serious and stops dicking around he rapes him. Okay.

he sliced his respirator in half prior to force raping him.

I seem to remember Vader surrounding him in a whirlwind of objects first, but failing to kill him. hm...

Blaxican, see if you can contact what's left of the Antedilluvians, they smacked Escape81 down quite a couple of times in some of the old threads I've read. See if you can get a hold of Borbarad, Autokrat aka Jonathan Mark aka Veneficus, IKC, jollyjim311, Swirly Girl, calvs, and as many of the old crowd you can get or else your going to half to get used to Gideon's getting his but kissed.

NonSensi-Klown Restricted

First off, you joined in August '08.

Second, Gideon's repeatedly smacked down the majority of those guys many times, and it doesn't even matter because at least Gideon doesn't start flaming people instantly for differing with him, like some of the Antedeliluvian's do.

Third, EoD is practically dead.

Enyalus MALE DOMINANCE!!!

Schwarz did a pretty good job showing that saber-wise, Galen and Vader are nearly evenly matched. So I won't go there.

Originally posted by Blaxican
This is all irrelevent, though. Fact of the matter is that evenn if Galen didn't rape him, he beat him legitemately, and straight up, no holds barred. Luke managed to defeat a Vader who was immersed in inner-conflict. Galen's feats > RotJ Luke's feats. Anyone who says otherwise is hating Galen just for the sake of hating.

This isn't true. Firstly, Luke beats Vader in a duel much more convincingly than Galen does. Secondly, as EH posted, Vader begins to go 'all out' just after he's kicked down the stairs by Luke. He's humiliated and for the first time entertains thoughts that his son could actually beat him. Gets extremely angry and doesn't want that to happen. So no, there was no inner conflict there.

Originally posted by Blaxican
And you mean after she summoned a big ass monster to devour him, and he was going toe-to-toe with her up till that point? Yeah, I do. Raping the monster, then raping her shortly afterwards, is pretty much > Anything RotJ Luke has done.

She tolds an advantage until that point, actually. Plus, being even with Shaak Ti suddenly trumps Luke's dismantling of Darth Vader? Oookay.

Originally posted by Blaxican
Galen crushes Luke with force lightning. QED.

Because Galen's Force Lightning is powerful enough to get casually redirected by Rahm Effing Kota...right. He's going to kill a Skywalker with it.

Luke won't be throwing his saber away as he did with the Emperor.

Originally posted by Faunus
Blax is completely right here; you posted three segments of the duel that somehow display Vader's parity with Galen, while ignoring everything else. They aren't far apart, but Marek is firmly better. Younger, faster, more powerful.

More powerful than the Chosen One? You're joking, right? You saw how Vader casually stops the first two pillars from hitting him before being blown backwards by Galen's Force Wave(?)?

DarkSerpent Restricted

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
First off, you joined in August '08.
I've read a lot of older post out of curiosity of how your views are said to change and evolve over time.

Second, Gideon's repeatedly smacked down the majority of those guys many times, and it doesn't even matter because at least Gideon doesn't start flaming people instantly for differing with him, like some of the Antedeliluvian's do.

I thought they were considered the elite(or were they self proclaimed?) and some of those I mentioned were not Ante's

Third, EoD is practically dead.

What is EoD?

Schwarzenegger Restricted

Ok let me get this straight before i start "rambling" again. Your claim(at least it seemed it was) was that "galen RAPED vader, and defeated vader with relative ease".

I'm just merely proving to you that that is not the case, the fact that vader did fight galen on even footing, until galen achieved his clarity and THEN he raped vader when he collapsed the pillars on him and slammed him some more.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Which, according to the text, happened immedietly after Vader pelted him with the force, which happened immedietly after vader initially surprised him with the strength of his attacks.
Ok.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

The text you quoted doesn't state that.
But the game does, the "scripted game" showed that vader dueled marek on equal footing BEFORE getting "raped".

Your original claim is that marek "wtf owned vader" right from the start, i'm just refuting that claim.

Right, fine, he did "rape" vader, but then again they were on equal footing until much later on.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

He's referring to his emotional state, not his skills. You can't fight very well when you're blind with rage. See Anakin vs. Obi-Wan on Mustafar for details.
Ok.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

Post the details...
Once again, read the novel for clarification, if not just look through the EU section and read what has been posted in the TFU novel thread.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

First off, no offense at all intended, get your head out of Gideon's ass. I won't deny that he is an extremely knowledgeble and good debater, but the sheer level of ass kissing some of you people give to him is sickening. It's reaching Janus reach-around levels of ridiculous. So far all you're doing is quoting "Sir" Gideon this, and the great Gideon says that. When Gideon comes in here himself and talks to me, I'll care.
Wow, so because i quote someone more intelligent than you, it means i'm ass kissing him? The very reason i quoted him when he analysed the duel is because he just knows how to interpret things far better than i do and i find him far more credible than anybody hence why i take everything he says seriously and even use it.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

So what you're saying is that when Galen gets serious and stops dicking around he rapes him. Okay.
Yes.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

he sliced his respirator in half prior to force raping him.
Right.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

I seem to remember Vader surrounding him in a whirlwind of objects first, but failing to kill him. hm...
And not one of these objects were as large as the pillars galen hurled at him, or it wold have killed galen already.

@To you and all other members.

I sincerely apologise if i was acting like a dick.

DarkSerpent Restricted

@ Blax

I was merely making suggestions for your anger at Gideon and those who line up to kiss his butt.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Enyalus
This isn't true. Firstly, Luke beats Vader in a duel much more convincingly than Galen does. Secondly, as EH posted, Vader begins to go 'all out' just after he's kicked down the stairs by Luke. He's humiliated and for the first time entertains thoughts that his son could actually beat him. Gets extremely angry and doesn't want that to happen. So no, there was no inner conflict there.
Yeah, Luke beats Vader in a duel. He doesn't decimate him with the Force as Galen does, and he later admits that Vader wasn't trying to kill him, and that it would've been very painful if he had.

Because Galen's Force Lightning is powerful enough to get casually redirected by Rahm Effing Kota...right. He's going to kill a Skywalker with it.
Don't be ridiculous. A weaker Galen had his lightning and telekinesis redirected by a Jedi Master - this is like comparing ESB Luke to RotJ Luke.

Luke won't be throwing his saber away as he did with the Emperor.
No, he'll be having it torn out of his hands and shoved down his throat.

More powerful than the Chosen One? You're joking, right?
What is the matter with you? Being the Chosen One means nothing anymore, because he's a broken shadow of what he could have been. Vader is still immensely powerful, but he is outmatched by Galen. Get over it.

You saw how Vader casually stops the first two pillars from hitting him before being blown backwards by Galen's Force Wave(?)?
You mean the single column he threw at Galen, had thrown right back at him, and then deflected off to the side? I'm sure you also noticed the part immediately afterward when Galen crushes him under several pipes, humiliates him in a short lightsaber exchange and beats him down Skywalker-style, then owns him with the Force some more and hurls him through a wall.

Yeah, Galen > Vader. Luke may be able to challenge him in a duel briefly, but he can't take him in an all-out battle.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Rofl first off he redirects one pillar second
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRK6U9tZxyI&feature=related
look at 4:26-4:36 Vader is clearly out dueled hear. and then once again gets annihilated with the force and is thrown around like a rag doll. And yes Marek is more powerful than a mutilated burned up Chosen One, who has to carry a mobile hospital with him. Pre-Suit Vader would man handle Marek but Vader simply gets destroyed here. Luke cannot beat Marek in ROTJ period.

Schwarzenegger Restricted

I agree with one thing faunus, that galen and vader are indeed close but just that galen pawned vader when he achieved his clarity.

But this makes me wonder, what if vader was free of any psychological restraints that limit his capabilities to be a combatant, would he be able to replicate what galen does but on someone else?

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Vader had no conflict he wanted to kill Marek, never did he offer to spare him. He stabbed him in the back and would have killed him on Corellia (via ambush) were it not for proxy. Vader had clarity in his intent to kill Marek who in his eyes was just another tool to root out the rebels as clearly stated by the Emperor

Schwarzenegger Restricted

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Vader had no conflict he wanted to kill Marek, never did he offer to spare him. He stabbed him in the back and would have killed him on Corellia (via ambush) were it not for proxy. Vader had clarity in his intent to kill Marek who in his eyes was just another tool to root out the rebels as clearly stated by the Emperor
No, according to the emperor vader still had alot of psychological issues that limited his capabilities, the emperor believed that had vader actually confronted and shrugged off all these psycho issues, that vader would become even more powerful than he currently is.

Sadly this is not the case.

But what angers me is that vader had Galen on his side and that he was too scared to turn on the emperor when he appeared on the executor.

This is one thing that is making me dislike vader but making me like galen even more.

NonSensi-Klown Restricted
Ok let me get this straight before i start "rambling" again. Your claim(at least it seemed it was) was that "galen RAPED vader, and defeated vader with relative ease".

No. this was my initial point.

Vader didn't get defeated, he got raped... his feats allow him to destroy Luke with ease.
I'm just merely proving to you that that is not the case, the fact that vader did fight galen on even footing, until galen achieved his clarity and THEN he raped vader when he collapsed the pillars on him and slammed him some more.

Well then, what's the point? That an emotionally wrecked and unederestimating Galen can not rape vader? Fine, I agree. But, you can say that almost anybody. Fighting when your mind is clouded is almost a guerenteed lost.

Your original claim is that marek "wtf owned vader" right from the start, i'm just refuting that claim.

Not having read the novel, I went only on what I got from the comic, which is that Vader and Galen exchanged atatcks briefly, then Galen got pissed and destroyed them.

Wow, so because i quote someone more intelligent than you,

He's more intelligent then me because he knows more about Star Wars. 'kay.

it means i'm ass kissing him? The very reason i quoted him when he analysed the duel is because he just knows how to interpret things far better than i do and i find him far more credible than anybody hence why i take everything he says seriously and even use it.

I have no problem with that. Consistently reffering to hi mas "The great this", and the "lord that", just gets irritating when you're saying it outside of a clearly joking manner. It's not just you, a lot of people act like that.

And not one of these objects were as large as the pillars galen hurled at him, or it wold have killed galen already.

Alright.

I sincerely apologise if i was acting like a dick.

It takes two to tango, always. I apologize as well. Accusign you of being an asskisser was unescessary.

Schwarz did a pretty good job showing that saber-wise, Galen and Vader are nearly evenly matched. So I won't go there.

This isn't true. Firstly, Luke beats Vader in a duel much more convincingly than Galen does. Secondly, as EH posted, Vader begins to go 'all out' just after he's kicked down the stairs by Luke. He's humiliated and for the first time entertains thoughts that his son could actually beat him. Gets extremely angry and doesn't want that to happen. So no, there was no inner conflict there.

She tolds an advantage until that point, actually. Plus, being even with Shaak Ti suddenly trumps Luke's dismantling of Darth Vader? Oookay.

Because Galen's Force Lightning is powerful enough to get casually redirected by Rahm Effing Kota...right. He's going to kill a Skywalker with it.

Luke won't be throwing his saber away as he did with the Emperor.

More powerful than the Chosen One? You're joking, right? You saw how Vader casually stops the first two pillars from hitting him before being blown backwards by Galen's Force Wave(?)?

Anything I say at this point will be a carbon copy of Faunus’ post. So I’ll let him deal with your shenanigans.