Originally posted by FaunusHe did this really long thing a while back, I'm not sure where though.
When did Blax do it? You've already done it multiple times, and people have asked you to stop.
I will stop...
When I debate or prove a point that puts others in jeopardy, nobody remembers for long, when I **** up or kid around, nobody ever forgets...
Originally posted by EnyalusYoda trained Luke to kill Darth Vader and rid the galaxy of the Sith. As opposed to other Jedi who are trained to uphold peace and justice in the galaxy. So yes, he's been trained to kill. And Galen, being a Sith - and Luke having zero emotionally connection to him at all, means he's going to go all-out and hold nothing back.
Being trained to kill, and being trained to kill by empowering yourself with the dark side, are two entirely different things. Yoda and Obi-Wan saw Luke as a way to defeat the Sith and reknew the Jedi. They did not want Luke to kill Vader and Palpatine at the expense of turning to the dark side and taking Vader's place. So no, he was not trained to expicitly murder, nor use the dark side to amp himself.
Only good when using the Dark Side? He put up a damn good fight vs. Vader in ESB,
You mean he barely managed to hang with a Vader who was merely toying with him and testing him, then Vader got serious and chopped his hand off ten seconds later. Luke never had even close to a prayer of being Vader's equal at that point.
When he allows himself to be captured, Vader even acknowledges, "Your training is now complete." Meaning that he's a fully fledged Jedi Knight, with Skywalker power to flaunt.
An ambiguous quote, first off, he could have been referring to his skill,s or maybe his wisdom, or maybe his ideals. The fact that Vader makes this remark after seeing Luke has constructed his own lightsaber points more to it being about his knowledge, as one of the final tests before being a fully fledged Jedi is to build your own lightsaber. Aside from that, Vader is a fallible third party character who, up to that point, had not seen Luke in any combat situations since ESB. To think that he was referring to his combat prowess at all is ridiculous.
Furthermore, since that's the only duel he's in in ROTJ, we could take that as his typical showing for that particular era - rendering all of this meaningless.
We could, but that would be stupid considering Vader had mental conflict within him and Luke was harnessing the dark side. It was a special situation. No amount of crying on your part can change that.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Being trained to kill, and being trained to kill by empowering yourself with the dark side, are two entirely different things. Yoda and Obi-Wan saw Luke as a way to defeat the Sith and reknew the Jedi. They did not want Luke to kill Vader and Palpatine at the expense of turning to the dark side and taking Vader's place. So no, he was not trained to expicitly murder, nor use the dark side to amp himself.
Because I somewhere and somehow stated that's that what they wanted. Right.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
You mean he barely managed to hang with a Vader who was merely toying with him and testing him, then Vader got serious and chopped his hand off ten seconds later. Luke never had even close to a prayer of being Vader's equal at that point.
Barely? You mean as in kicking him twenty or so feet below one level and onto the next, or landing a lightsaber blow to his shoulder? Uh huh.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
An ambiguous quote, first off, he could have been referring to his skill,s or maybe his wisdom, or maybe his ideals. The fact that Vader makes this remark after seeing Luke has constructed his own lightsaber points more to it being about his knowledge, as one of the final tests before being a fully fledged Jedi is to build your own lightsaber. Aside from that, Vader is a fallible third party character who, up to that point, had not seen Luke in any combat situations since ESB. To think that he was referring to his combat prowess at all is ridiculous.
That's a lot of speculation on your part.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
We could, but that would be stupid considering Vader had mental conflict within him and Luke was harnessing the dark side. It was a special situation. No amount of crying on your part can change that.
I was crying at what point, exactly? And I suggested it specifically because it was ridiculous. Thank you for understanding the irony there.
Why the hostility tonight? Who set your panties on fire?
Originally posted by Enyalus
Because I somewhere and somehow stated that's that what they wanted. Right.
I don't know how you can make the assumption that he wouldn't give into his anger against Starkiller - since the only duel he is in in ROTJ shows him tapping into it. Especially against a Sith apprentice who he doesn't know and shouldn't even care if he kills. Unlike his father. Luke wouldn't exactly be holding back, is my point.
Galen's a Sith apprentice who uses the Dark Side of the Force. Ya know, the same people that Yoda was training him to eliminate. wink Mortal enemies of the Jedi, and all that.
EH: Jedi aren't typically trained to kill. Luke, basically, was. And to kill Sith Lords, no less. Also, Galen thought himself to be a Sith apprentice - so yeah, I agree he was a Dark Jedi, but that isn't exactly how he saw himself.
From what I understand from these posts, you seem to be implying that Luke would not fight any differently then how he fought Vader (i.E., going all out, like using the darkside) because that's how he was trained to fight Sith and Dark Jedi. I'm saying you're wrong.
If my interpretation is incorrect, feel free to correct me and specify what you mean.
Barely? You mean as in kicking him twenty or so feet below one level and onto the next, or landing a lightsaber blow to his shoulder? Uh huh.
Yeah. Barely, considering he was also getting thrown around, kicked into pits, and getting the shit beat out of him, by a Vader who was toying with him and gauging his skills.
That's a lot of speculation on your part.
Not really, no.
one of the final tests before being a fully fledged Jedi is to build your own lightsaber.
This is fact.
Vader is a fallible third party character who, up to that point, had not seen Luke in any combat situations since ESB.
This is also fact.
first off, he could have been referring to his skill,s or maybe his wisdom, or maybe his ideals. The fact that Vader makes this remark after seeing Luke has constructed his own lightsaber points more to it being about his knowledge,
This is speculation. But then again, so is this:
Meaning that he's a fully fledged Jedi Knight, with Skywalker power to flaunt.
What's the difference between our speculative points? Mine is backed by fact and logic. Yours... isn't.
I was crying at what point, exactly?
Do you mean besides the last three pages or so, through which you've been told by and it's obvious to many people that you're being ridiculous?
And I suggested it specifically because it was ridiculous. Thank you for understanding the irony there.
All I did was agree with you. It is ridiculous, also stupid. But, with the logic you've been using in this thread it wouldn't be too far-fetched coming from you.
Why the hostility tonight? Who set your panties on fire?
As you may or may not have noticed, I do more trolling then I do actual debating around here. Reason for that is because I have anger management issues and the longer a debate goes on the more irritable I become. I generally refrain from debating because of that. I'm actually breaking one of my own rules by screwing around with you and Ahnold because I promised myself a long time ago that if a debate lasted longer then a page I'd stop.
Because when debates drag on I get irritated, and when I get irritated I get hostile. So to counter that I just don't let the debate stretch that long, or I let it continue on without me. That way I don't get irritated.
I'm much worse in real life, where I can't walk away from things by clicking a button.