You're being ridiculous, Enyalus. Again.
Luke would get torn to shreds by Galen in a real fight. The former was capable of besting Vader in a duel, but in later reflections would imply that Vader was fully capable of killing him with the Force. The latter solidly owned Vader in a full-on contest with neither holding anything back. He survived the duel, then kicked his ass with the Force. He was also capable of stopping the Emperor's lightning, containing the energies, and then suicidally detonating them in an explosion that tore apart steel.
Galen owns Luke, end of story. And chances are, he and Vader could take the Emperor as well. Keep in mind that Galen was able to actively dodge the Sith Lord's lightning, use some technique to deflect it back, and then later stop it completely in a Yoda-esque last stand.
The team takes this and I'm starting to believe that Vader's TK was prodigious and together with Galen's destructive power the Emperor would fall, I was fully expecting the DS ending to be about Vader and Galen kicking the Emperor's butt instead it finishes with Galen being turned into Vaderlite by Sidious.
Originally posted by Faunus
You're being ridiculous, Enyalus. Again.Luke would get torn to shreds by Galen in a real fight. The former was capable of besting Vader in a duel, but in later reflections would imply that Vader was fully capable of killing him with the Force. The latter solidly owned Vader in a full-on contest with neither holding anything back. He survived the duel, then kicked his ass with the Force. He was also capable of stopping the Emperor's lightning, containing the energies, and then suicidally detonating them in an explosion that tore apart steel.
Galen owns Luke, end of story. And chances are, he and Vader could take the Emperor as well. Keep in mind that Galen was able to actively dodge the Sith Lord's lightning, use some technique to deflect it back, and then later stop it completely in a Yoda-esque last stand.
You need to stop stealing my thunder.
Originally posted by Faunus
You're being ridiculous, Enyalus. Again.Luke would get torn to shreds by Galen in a real fight. The former was capable of besting Vader in a duel, but in later reflections would imply that Vader was fully capable of killing him with the Force. The latter solidly owned Vader in a full-on contest with neither holding anything back. He survived the duel, then kicked his ass with the Force. He was also capable of stopping the Emperor's lightning, containing the energies, and then suicidally detonating them in an explosion that tore apart steel.
Galen owns Luke, end of story. And chances are, he and Vader could take the Emperor as well. Keep in mind that Galen was able to actively dodge the Sith Lord's lightning, use some technique to deflect it back, and then later stop it completely in a Yoda-esque last stand.
In my opinion, ROTJ Luke is superior to Galen dueling wise. As far as the Force goes, by ESB Luke is able to levitate three medium-sized objects and R2-D2 while doing a hand-stand while balancing Yoda on his feet. To me, that is an incredible feat of control. The only thing Galen has done, control-wise, to match that feat would be piloting a ship using the Force (which was very nicely done). Now then, that feat of Luke's was in ESB. By ROTJ, he's stronger and presumably has more control. I think he'd be able to avoid or toss back anything Galen could throw at him with TK. He's got a saber, he should be able to block his lightning. Once he gets in close, I don't think Galen has a good chance to beat Luke.
Galen's Force powers are exaggerated, like everyone elses in TFU. This is said by the game developers themselves on their web documentaries on the official website.
Luke's training almost certainly would have covered how to block Force Lightning with a saber at least, given that Yoda knew first hand what the Emperor could do and was training him specifically to destroy the last of the Sith.
Now, someone could say, "But Enyalus, Galen doesn't just use his sabers in a battle. He mixes up his strikes with Force powers, which makes him much more deadly than Luke." And that's true, to a point. It's purely thanks to game mechanics that he does that. The makers even state that that is one of the points of the game: to chain saber combos with Force moves, making your attacks even deadlier. No one in the rest of the mythos fights in this manner. Not Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Kyp, or Anakin to name a few. All of whom either have greater Force control than Galen, or greater power and Force reserves, or both. If it's such an effective method of attack, why don't they do it? Game mechanics. The closest thing we see to something like what Galen does is Count Dooku in ROTS, using his TK while dueling...once.
As for Galen's blocking of Sidious' lightning completely, that's only because he slips into that whole 'avatar of the Force' Deus Ex Machina state. He can't do such a thing on command.
I know it wasn't canon - but the Dark Side ending shows the disparity in power between the Emperor and Galen pretty well. And Vader is weaker than Galen, so...I don't see them standing too much of a chance. Ontop of that, Emperor Palpatine is much faster than either of them, so in sabers he would royally wreck them.
So everything is fair, I admit to being slightly biased against Galen. It's not that I don't like him - I think his personality is compelling. It's just...there's no explanation as to why he's so uber. And I think that's stupid. I do like one particular thing said to him during the game...I think it's the best line in The Force Unleashed period:
"Poor boy, the Sith always betray one another..." - Shaak Ti
That just...was incredible. Especially given the context of her dying at the time.
Anyway...I'm ridiculous, Faunus? 🙁 *is crushed*
Originally posted by Enyalus
In my opinion, ROTJ Luke is superior to Galen dueling wise. As far as the Force goes, by ESB Luke is able to levitate three medium-sized objects and R2-D2 while doing a hand-stand while balancing Yoda on his feet. To me, that is an incredible feat of control. The only thing Galen has done, control-wise, to match that feat would be piloting a ship using the Force (which was very nicely done).
Also: Luke can pilot his ship with the Force too. The first Death Star shot was made with the Force.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Now then, that feat of Luke's was in ESB. By ROTJ, he's stronger and presumably has more control. I think he'd be able to avoid or toss back anything Galen could throw at him with TK. He's got a saber, he should be able to block his lightning. Once he gets in close, I don't think Galen has a good chance to beat Luke.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Galen's Force powers are exaggerated, like everyone elses in TFU. This is said by the game developers themselves on their web documentaries on the official website.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Luke's training almost certainly would have covered how to block Force Lightning with a saber at least, given that Yoda knew first hand what the Emperor could do and was training him specifically to destroy the last of the Sith.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Now, someone could say, "But Enyalus, Galen doesn't just use his sabers in a battle. He mixes up his strikes with Force powers, which makes him much more deadly than Luke." And that's true, to a point. It's purely thanks to game mechanics that he does that. The makers even state that that is one of the points of the game: to chain saber combos with Force moves, making your attacks even deadlier. No one in the rest of the mythos fights in this manner. Not Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Kyp, or Anakin to name a few. All of whom either have greater Force control than Galen, or greater power and Force reserves, or both. If it's such an effective method of attack, why don't they do it? Game mechanics. The closest thing we see to something like what Galen does is Count Dooku in ROTS, using his TK while dueling...once.
Originally posted by Enyalus
As for Galen's blocking of Sidious' lightning completely, that's only because he slips into that whole 'avatar of the Force' Deus Ex Machina state. He can't do such a thing on command.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I know it wasn't canon - but the Dark Side ending shows the disparity in power between the Emperor and Galen pretty well. And Vader is weaker than Galen, so...I don't see them standing too much of a chance. Ontop of that, Emperor Palpatine is much faster than either of them, so in sabers he would royally wreck them.
"Poor boy, the Sith always betray one another..." - Shaak Ti
Originally posted by Jbill311
They are still cannon. The book is probably more reliable, but I haven't read it yet. Gideon or I think Faunus might have read it already- and they can verify if the feats are still cannon.
The comic shows the same feats as the game. I think the novel does as well.
Someone explained this to me once with the CWC...I wish I had paid more attention. It went something like, "Because the Force powers are exaggerated, what happened is canon but the feats they used to accomplish what they did is not. Mace destroying an army of battledroids without his lightsaber is canon. Mace rushing around and crushing their durasteel with his bare hands while wiping them all out in a matter of seconds, is not."
I hope I got that right.
Originally posted by Jbill311
Yoda did not have a chance to teach him all of the techniques, because he had to save his friends in Cloud city.
That's a very, very good point. I was going by the reasoning that just because we don't see all of his training, doesn't mean he doesn't get it all. Recall that in ESB he does the Jedi Knight trials (going into the Dark Side Nexus cave or something), and fails. Obviously by ROTJ he's completed his training and would've passed that particular test. Since Yoda was training him to take down the Sith Lords, it shouldn't been a given that he'd try to teach him a defense against Force Lightning...your point about the training being stopped by Luke's impatience is well taken though.
Originally posted by Jbill311
Vader uses it in his duel with Luke in ESB, which is probably why Galen knows the technique: Vader had already thought of it, and wanted to use it to finish the last survivors of Order 66. He just happened to do it by proxy- through Starkiller.
Naw, Vader duels Luke. Then throws stuff at him. Then duels him again. He never mixes it up as seemlessly as Galen does. The only one who comes close is Dooku while fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin on the Invisible Hand. Displayed once ever.
Originally posted by Jbill311
I guess it all comes down to how effective Galen would be while fighting in tandem with Vader. If he can make up for the 20% difference of Palpatine's power that Vader doesn't have, then they can take it. I don't see a newcomer, a virtual unknown, being 20% of Sidious either. The Emperor would take this, though with incredible difficulty. Against Luke and Vader, he would sweep up with ridiculous ease. Luke just doesn't have the same level of knowledge as Galen and I don't see his raw power being able to make up for the difference.
In a Force fight they'd have a chance. Then again, if Palpatine can rip a fighter out of space and throw it through transparisteel to crush Galen and Vader with it, it's over. 😉
And in sabers, Sidious by a large margin.
Originally posted by EnyalusDooku does it a lot. Sora Bulq does it. Hell, the novel even has Anakin and Obi-Wan doing it, with the former slashing off pieces of the wall and hurling them at Kenobi while dueling with him. I'm sure I'm missing several examples, but it's not at all uncommon.
Naw, Vader duels Luke. Then throws stuff at him. Then duels him again. He never mixes it up as seemlessly as Galen does. The only one who comes close is Dooku while fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin on the Invisible Hand. Displayed once ever.
If Galen can pull a Star Destroyer onto Sidious's head, it's over.
In a Force fight they'd have a chance. Then again, if Palpatine can rip a fighter out of space and throw it through transparisteel to crush Galen and Vader with it, it's over. 😉
And in sabers, Sidious by a large margin.No. Sidious is terribly out of practice here - it's been almost twenty years since he's fought someone in a duel. Marek is at the peak of his game and very fast. Vader could be somewhat helpful.
The duo definitely has a shot in a duel. Maybe not a big one, but it's there.