ROTS Pre-Suit Vader vs. Galen Marek

Started by Lord Knightfa1126 pages

Originally posted by Enyalus
What. The. ****?

What was holding up the ice (it being above the atmosphere) in the first place?

1. excuse me... I thought it was clear. its a canopy of ice surrounding the earth. It kept things like gamma rays (etc) out, pushed on the air, and pressurized it to almost double potency of normal oxygen. So... there are a few things holding it up.... Gravity (yes gravity can hold something up, if its pulling equally on one side of an item as on the other, its going to stay stationary.


Dinosaurs died off in the KT extinction event circa 65 million years ago. Homo sapiens evolved 1.7 million years ago. If that was what killed the dinosaurs, we'd have zero knowledge or memory of it - especially not enough to make up deluge stories in worldwide myths.

the Taylor trayal. dinosaur and human footprint fossils found in the same geologic layer...

Those are just a few of the problems I see, off hand, with that "theory." I'd believe in Joseph Smith Jr. before I'd believe in that nonsense.

Yes, carbon dating is almost balogna. http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

Factors and reasons that carbon dating fails.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html

Screw it. I'm convinced.

That picture is what we call 'bullshit' and 'manmade'. For BOTH.

lolz? if anything the evolutionists have been the only ones ever proven to have man-made ANYTHING.

]Nebraska Man was named in 1922 from a humanlike tooth which had been found in Nebraska. As creationists tell the story, evolutionists used one tooth to build an entire species of primitive man, complete with illustrations of him and his family, before further excavations revealed the tooth to belong to a peccary, an animal similar to (and closely related to) pigs.
After discovering the first Neanderthal skullcap in 1856 in the Neander Valley near Dusseldorf, Germany, German anatomist Ruldolph Virchow said in essence that the fossil was the remains of a modern man afflicted with rickets and osteoporosis. In 1958, at the International Congress of Zoology, A.J.E. Cave stated that his examination of the famous Neanderthal skeleton established that it was simply an old man who had suffered from arthritis. Francis Ivanhoe authored an article that appeared in Nature titled “Was Virchow Right About Neanderthal?” (1970). Virchow had reported that the Neanderthal’s ape-like appearance was due to a condition known as rickets, which is a vitamin-D deficiency characterized by overproduction (and deficient calcification) of bone tissue. The disease causes skeletal deformities, enlargement of the liver and spleen, and generalized tenderness throughout the body. Dr. Cave noted that every Neanderthal child’s skull that had been studied up to that point in time apparently was affected by severe rickets. When rickets occurs in children, it commonly produces a large head due to late closure of the epiphysis and fontanels.

Quoting from a Chick tract= immediate fail

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Quoting from a Chick tract= immediate fail
unable to make a rebuttal=immediate fail.

Being outsmarted by a mysticist revan fan boy in an intellectual debate over something you suppose to be "superstition", and something you suppose to be "Scientific fact"-Priceless.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Quoting from a Chick tract= immediate fail

why? because it disagrees with you?

wow, well, i am sorry for insulting you. you do have a theory, but it is completly ridiculous. Ok, is there any "proof" other than myths, which are from the "imagination" that support any of that? the ice and flood and any of it?

Because anything Chick cites is biased as hell, distorts information and presents factually incorrect sources?

Chick is fish in a barrel stuff these days. Frankly, I'm waiting for Knightfa11 to address all the links I posted.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
wow, well, i am sorry for insulting you. you do have a theory, but it is completly ridiculous. Ok, is there any "proof" other than myths, which are from the "imagination" that support any of that? the ice and flood and any of it?
well the idea is that since the ice retracted the light and compressed the air differently, the carbon 14 was in less/more quantities, so that would mess with carbon dating.

Well there is that picture I showed of the fossils. Like I said, native cultures everywhere have legends and the like of a flood. the Chinese, the south Americans, the Jews all have this theory (etc.) There is the idea that we couldn't have possibly sprung from soup, we are far too infinitely complex for that, we must have been designed...

The second most compelling evidence for instantaneous creation pertains to the spherical halos caused by the decay of a radioactive core. These halos are found by the trillions in all Precambrian granites, the foundation stones of the earth's crust. More particularly they are found in biotite, the mica portion of the granite.

As a radioactive particle decays, it progresses through a well know set of elements and isotopes, emitting Beta or Alpha particles of given MeV (Million electron Volts). When alpha particles are emitted by a radioactive speck in a given substrate or material, the alpha particles "run out of energy" a certain distance away from the core and leave a "damage" sphere or ring (when cross-sectioned). See illustrations below. By measuring the diameter of the damaged ring, and also noting the various rings around a core, its fairly straightforward to determine what the exact center core particle was to begin with.

some creationist scientists believe that god made the universe chiefly with nuclear fission, creating radioactivity in things like granite.

At the current rate of erosion from water and winds "it would only take 15 million years to erode all land above sea level," depositing it into the ocean. (Science says the age of continents is hundreds of millions of years old)
this implies that the earth is far younger than evolution would have us believe.

At the current rate of sedimentation, the accumulation of sedimentation from the continents "implies that the present ocean floors have existed less than 15 million years." Fossil evidence supports the current rate of sedimentation. (Science says the age of the ocean floors is around 200 million years old).

Yet again, this implies that the earth is younger than evolution would have us believe.
Many erect fossil trees in Nova Scotia were found "throughout 2,500 feet of geologic strata, penetrating 20 geologic horizons. These trees had to have been buried faster than it took them to decay. This implies that the entire formation was deposited in less than a few years." (evolution says layers were deposited over millions of years)
this adds credence to the Idea of some sort of deluge.

Then there is the fact that our earth gets closer to the sun every year. within 4 billion years ago, (or whatever you say it is >.> <.<😉 the earth would have been far away enough from the sun to not be able to support ANY kind of life, much less the type of warmth and special conditions it would have needed to support a budding and infinitely simple single celled organism (no such thing, every single celled organism we study today is the equivalent of an entire city working together.)

The oldest tree in existence today is 4000 years old, the estimated length of time ago the flood would have happened.

The earth is spinning slower and slower every year. At the rate it decreases today, it would have been spinning extremely fast in the early days, which would create an extremely unstable environment and quite a bit of centrifugal force on the matter found on the earth.

A large fossil resembling the design of Noah's ark has been found near Ararat. the same archeologist has allegedly found several other biblical artifacts, including a city made of ash with sulfur pebbles embedded in a rain pattern in it. http://www.wyattmuseum.com/cities-of-the-plain-02.htm (sodom and gamorah)

http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm

A large petrified boat shaped structure that was preserved under a mountainside until erosion exposed it.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0427_040427_noahsark.html

I'll get to the rest later, but you understand that Noah's Arc - which, judging by the dimensions given provided by that site you linked - would've had about 1.5 million square feet, even generously assuming that it was a completely hollowed-out structure with paper-thin walls. There is no way that two of each of the 1.5 million known species on the planet could fit in there. 60,000 vertebrates and almost two and half million invertebrates - ignoring the plants and fungi - aren't fitting in there. Sorry.

Also, I find it ironic that you're completely willing to subscribe to medical science, but somehow evolutionary science is bullshit. You understand that the people who got you through birth were using techniques and machines devised by science, right? You trust them. The people who made your computers, the people who designed your house, and the people who lay the groundwork for a functioning modern society, and the people who've sent men in metal pods to the moon and back.

So cut the double-standards.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because anything Chick cites is biased as hell, distorts information and presents factually incorrect sources?

Chick is fish in a barrel stuff these days. Frankly, I'm waiting for Knightfa11 to address all the links I posted.

I don't have time to read all that. notice how I took key exerts from my websights so you wouldn't have to read the whole thing? and that wasn't chick, those were actually quotes from an evolutionist websight.

Knightfall, you know your shit, I'll give you that. And I respect you for arguing an unpopular position. The evidence you've posted is a lot more than anyone else disagreeing with you has.

I disagree with your conclusions, but props to you anyway.

Originally posted by Faunus
I'll get to the rest later, but you understand that Noah's Arc - which, judging by the dimensions given provided by that site you linked - would've had about 1.5 million square feet, even generously assuming that it was a completely hollowed-out structure with paper-thin walls. There is no way that two of each of the 1.5 million known species on the planet could fit in there. 60,000 vertebrates and almost two and half million invertebrates - ignoring the plants and fungi - aren't fitting in there. Sorry.
you realize he doesn't have to bring EVERY species. he only needs to bring basic stuff, because like i said, evolution within species is enirely possible and probable. also, he didn't have to take many of the insects, as they could most likely survive on carrion, and all insects basically float.

Noah didn't take labrador, snt bernard, german shepherd-etc. he took two dogs. he also didn't have to bring the largest of everything on the ark. two puppies. two baby elephants. two baby tigers. etc. my theory is that he only took bags of seed for the basic plant population that evolved (via breeding within its kind) into the plants that exist today.


Also, I find it ironic that you're completely willing to subscribe to medical science, but somehow evolutionary science is bullshit. You understand that the people who got you through birth were using techniques and machines devised by science, right? You trust them. The people who made your computers, the people who designed your house, and the people who lay the groundwork for a functioning modern society, and the people who've sent men in metal pods to the moon
all based on proven science fact. The difference is that evolution is pure speculation on how our species came to existence. nobody was there, nobody can test it.
lol? thats your idea of a double standard? something that can be tested and tried in a labratory vs something that can, but it would take 4.6 billion years so they aren't even trying? Science and Religion aren't enemies. God made science.

....I'm amazed how you still have no idea how long term evolution works. Ever heard the term 'common ancestor?' Oh, and we didn't come from 'monkies,' we share a common ancestor with apes.

Now I'm taking a personal affront to this. when I get my sources together, I'm going at this hard as I can.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Knightfall, you know your shit, I'll give you that. And I respect you for arguing an unpopular position. The evidence you've posted is a lot more than anyone else disagreeing with you has.

I disagree with your conclusions, but props to you anyway.

Thank you. This what has your panties all in a knot, lightsnake? 😄

Someone mentioned that germs are just a theory, so are exactly on par with Evolution. I find that ridiculous. Germs have been studied under a microscope. Germs have been tested by placing them into organisms, and watching them make those organisms sick. Similar experiments have not even been CLOSE to having been conducting in defense of evolution. That kind of observation COULD NOT have taken place.

Faunus, ever heard of a baby animal? You named cubic footage by the way, not square footage Not every animal would need to be brought on board the ark. First of all, not one creature from the sea would need to be brought on board the ark. So minus, probably 1/2 the species you spoke of (don't quote me on the 1/2 part, but with 70% of the earth covered in water, i think its a conservative estimate)

quoted from a website: (the numbers don't seem unreasonable, but i don't claim their perfect accuracy🙂

Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.

In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic. For example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.

Doctors Morris and Whitcomb in their classic book,The Genesis Flood state that no more than 35,000 individual animals needed to go on the ark. In his well documented book, Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, John Woodmorappe suggests that far fewer animals would have been transported upon the ark. By pointing out that the word "specie" is not equivalent to the "created kinds" of the Genesis account, Woodmorappe credibly demonstrates that as few as 2,000 animals may have been required on the ark. To pad this number for error, he continues his study by showing that the ark could easily accommodate 16,000 animals.)
But, let's be generous and add on a reasonable number to include extinct animals. Then add on some more to satisfy even the most skeptical. Let's assume 50,000 animals, far more animals than required, were on board the ark, and these need not have been the largest or even adult specimens.

Remember there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah's family of eight people. The Ark had plenty of space.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
....I'm amazed how you still have no idea how long term evolution works. Ever heard the term 'common ancestor?' Oh, and we didn't come from 'monkies,' we share a common ancestor with apes.

Now I'm taking a personal affront to this. when I get my sources together, I'm going at this hard as I can.

thats the problem isn't it? instead of looking at it logically, you, like so many others, get personally offended that we dare suggest something other than the theory that you are basing your own existence on.
If knightfall were able to prove to you 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that a god (the God of the Bible, for example, because that is where he's coming from) created the earth, and thus you, it would change the way you viewed what your life was all about.
Jbill's suggestion, that we all live for ourselves and our own self-interest and pleasure would be destroyed.
So you, like the scientists that knightfall is talking about, dismiss creationists out of hand, turn the public opinion against them, because we humans believe in the "curve" theory of life whether we want to or not. We assume the status quo is good enough. If i hit the class average in a class, i expect to pass it, and scientist who are preaching (yes, i said preaching) evolution are trying to bring the average person to their understanding so if they are wrong (because scientist are in the foremost position to realize just how wrong they are) then they can still be acceptable to the alternatives.

basically, you get angry when anyone questions you, and refuse to accept the possibility of an alternative theory being true. (you said that yourself). If everyone would just treat it as a discussion, other than a personal affront, there might actually be a point of 30+ pages of comments here.

Originally posted by truejedi
thats the problem isn't it? instead of looking at it logically, you, like so many others, get personally offended that we dare suggest something other than the theory that you are basing your own existence on.

I have looked at it logically. I don't base my views on a 2000 year old book being dospel. Rather, I'll go where all scientific and logical evidence points me.


If knightfall were able to prove to you 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that a god (the God of the Bible, for example, because that is where he's coming from) created the earth, and thus you, it would change the way you viewed what your life was all about.

He'd need to do the proving first. Using the extremely flawed idea that it's "One or the other" (And screw any other creation myth by his logc), he'd need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt God exists.

Jbill's suggestion, that we all live for ourselves and our own self-interest and pleasure would be destroyed.

Secular humanism.
Learn about it. You don't need to believe in God to not be a hedonistic dick.

So you, like the scientists that knightfall is talking about, dismiss creationists out of hand, turn the public opinion against them, because we humans believe in the "curve" theory of life whether we want to or not.

Oh, please. 'Dismiss' out of hand? Because they are attempting to claim and teach as fact something with zero backing, with no proof behind it beyond what they invent. Scientists hold beliefs should be based on evidence, not the other way around.

We assume the status quo is good enough. If i hit the class average in a class, i expect to pass it, and scientist who are preaching (yes, i said preaching) evolution are trying to bring the average person to their understanding so if they are wrong (because scientist are in the foremost position to realize just how wrong they are) then they can still be acceptable to the alternatives.

Typical fundie nonsense: The Great Scientist Conspiracy.
Really laughable

basically, you get angry when anyone questions you, and refuse to accept the possibility of an alternative theory being true. (you said that yourself).

Please. Point out where.
No, I get annoyed because I consider creationism not only stupid, outdated and wrong, but poisonous and pompous. Any alternative theory could be true. Let's see evidence. I provided a good few webpages on the subject and I've seen nothing from either of you save for strawman and really bad logic

If everyone would just treat it as a discussion, other than a personal affront, there might actually be a point of 30+ pages of comments here.

There's really little point in trying a discussion with people who try to hold the world is 5,000 years old and all scientists are evil hedonists