Originally posted by Gideon
The Dark Side Sourcebook refers to Darth Sidious, as of the Phantom Menace, to be the most powerful member of the Order of the Sith Lords, which Darth Bane himself is a member of. Heritage of the Sith and the Essential Guide to the Force refer to Palpatine as "the culmination of Sith philosophy and teachings." Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith "had not merely been waiting for an appropriate time to reemerge and exact revenge, but for the birth of one strong enough to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. This was Sidious: powerful enough to hide in plain sight. Powerful enough to instruct his apprentice, Dooku, to expose him, and still remain hidden from the Jedi." This statement is corroborated by the Complete Visual Dictionary:"The Sith have waited a millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one -- the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side." -- page 194.
While that says nothing for Palpatine in comparison to the Ancient Sith, it does leave no doubt: Palpatine is canonically confirmed by multiple sources to be a more powerful Force user and Sith Lord than Darth Bane; it's not up for debate, really.
"When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of
watching and waiting, they numbered-in accordance
with the tradition set down by Darth Bane only two. The
most powerful of these was Darth Sidious"
The writer used the pronoun "they" and "these" in reference to the Sith who revealed themselves; not every Sith of Bane's order. Take away the underlined clause and nothing is there to describe who or what "they" is.
How do any of those other quotes prove he's actually more powerful again? He didn't exactly walk into the Jedi Temple and take revenge using his own powers. I'd say it's entirely debatable.
Originally posted by Advent
"When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of
watching and waiting, [b]they numbered-in accordance
with the tradition set down by Darth Bane only two. The
most powerful of these was Darth Sidious"The writer used the pronoun "they" and "these" in reference to the Sith who revealed themselves; not every Sith of Bane's order. Take away the underlined clause and nothing is there to describe who or what "they" is.[/B]
I'll carbon copy Publius's argument for this; he does a better job of explaining it than me.
How do any of those other quotes prove he's actually more powerful again? He didn't exactly walk into the Jedi Temple and take revenge using his own powers. I'd say it's entirely debatable.
Well, I'm in the middle of the Emmys. If you'd like to debate it, you may begin doing so. Something I'll point out to you, Advent, is that Palpatine wasn't born Emperor of the galaxy. Something to think about.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'll carbon copy Publius's argument for this; he does a better job of explaining it than me.Well, I'm in the middle of the Emmys. If you'd like to debate it, you may begin doing so. Something I'll point out to you, Advent, is that Palpatine wasn't born Emperor of the galaxy. Something to think about.
I wasn't trying to debate it right now, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be case closed. And he may not have been born Emperor, but he also didn't become Emperor with his Force powers alone.
Originally posted by Advent
I wasn't trying to debate it right now, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be case closed. And he may not have been born Emperor, but he also didn't become Emperor with his Force powers alone.
But that's the point; it really is cased closed. As my Publius's arguments will verify the statement from the Dark Side Sourcebook, you still have four other statements to deal with. I'm particularly annoyed with the recurring theme that 'power' is ambiguous when dealing specifically with Palpatine; the Complete Visual Dictionary makes it clear that Palpatine was the one "born with the power" to return them from hiding and embrace the dark side fully. Palpatine wasn't born into the political arena or control over the galaxy and Darth Bane has exhibited an intellect and a learning rate on par with Darth Sidious. How else do you explain it?
Originally posted by Gideon
But that's the point; it really is cased closed. As my Publius's arguments will verify the statement from the Dark Side Sourcebook, you still have four other statements to deal with. I'm particularly annoyed with the recurring theme that 'power' is ambiguous when dealing specifically with Palpatine; the Complete Visual Dictionary makes it clear that Palpatine was the one "born with the power" to return them from hiding and embrace the dark side fully. Palpatine wasn't born into the political arena or control over the galaxy and Darth Bane has exhibited an intellect and a learning rate on par with Darth Sidious. How else do you explain it?
Appeal to authority. Case opened.
Power is ambiguous with Sidious because those quotes you provided all talk about him being powerful enough to overthrow the Jedi, which he didn't actually do with just power.
From the DSSB:
"Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal
was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his
seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that
ultimately served to further empower the Sith."
Bane has demonstrated he's a master manipulator and politician? Which, as it says, helped in establishing Sith dominance.
Originally posted by Advent
Appeal to authority. Case opened.Power is ambiguous with Sidious because those quotes you provided all talk about him being powerful enough to overthrow the Jedi, which he didn't actually do with just power.
From the DSSB:
"Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal
was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his
seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that
ultimately served to further empower the Sith."Bane has demonstrated he's a master manipulator and politician? Which, as it says, helped in establishing Sith dominance.
Again, Darth Bane proved himself to be a master manipulator as well. And explain how "keen understanding of galactic politics" will let you "embrace the dark side fully." Palpatine's power and ability to embrace the dark side clearly weren't shared by Bane, otherwise he would have been the revenge of the Sith. But he's not. It's Palpatine and only Palpatine.