Sith Force Tournament

I don't see what's the big deal. I mean, by ROTS he was already 63 years old. I don't see why wouldn't someone like sidious, someone as eager as him to learn the sith's ways, wouldn't already be pretty close to his full power at this time. I mean, Darth Maul was said to have already unlock his potential at the age of 24, I don't see why wouldn't sidious be at least close to his full power at the age of 63... Even luke was already pretty close to his full potential much younger then sidious and he had not the kind of information that sidious had.

That's why I find hard to believe that DE sidious was stronger then ROTJ sidious. I mean, this sidious, a 86 years guy who spent the last 23 years studying the ways of the force, haven't unlock his full potential yet? Personally I believe that DE is stronger then ROTJ because he had a younger body and probably a bit more force knowledge, yet I hardly believe that the difference is that great.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way, I didn't mean to be mean. Honest. 🙄 😛 I was just grouchy.

I don't see what's the big deal. I mean, by ROTS he was already 63 years old. I don't see why wouldn't someone like sidious, someone as eager as him to learn the sith's ways, wouldn't already be pretty close to his full power at this time. I mean, Darth Maul was said to have already unlock his potential at the age of 24, I don't see why wouldn't sidious be at least close to his full power at the age of 63... Even luke was already pretty close to his full potential much younger then sidious and he had not the kind of information that sidious had.

That's why I find hard to believe that DE sidious was stronger then ROTJ sidious. I mean, this sidious, a 86 years guy who spent the last 23 years studying the ways of the force, haven't unlock his full potential yet? Personally I believe that DE is stronger then ROTJ because he had a younger body and probably a bit more force knowledge, yet I hardly believe that the difference is that great.

It isn't a big deal, nothing on this forum is. But I don't think he is superior when I look at Bane and the Ancient Sith. He gained a lot of knowledge in between ROTS and ROTJ because he destroyed the Jedi Order and was free to raid the galaxy. So his mastery and knowledge would be more complete than before, making him more powerful.

Well, but that's a good reason why would ROTJ sidious be stronger then ROTS sidious, 23 years of free time to search the galaxy and study everything he could. However, I am not seeing what else he could do to unlock his potential after spending so many time of his life studying, and that's why I think DE and ROTJ sidious should be pretty much the same, more or less force storm.

he had all of Bane's knowledge already. He was probably above Bane and definitely the vast majority of Ancients. Especially considering how a team the same size of the ones who raided Palpatine's office practically crushed an ancient force meant to overrun a planet.

Originally posted by Advent
Sorry if I came off the wrong way, I didn't mean to be mean. Honest. 🙄 😛 I was just grouchy.

I see. Well, this forum and its occasional incompetence can certainly generate ill moods in even the most patient of individuals. Even demigods such as myself.

It isn't a big deal, nothing on this forum is. But I don't think he is superior when I look at Bane and the Ancient Sith.

The Dark Side Sourcebook refers to Darth Sidious, as of the Phantom Menace, to be the most powerful member of the Order of the Sith Lords, which Darth Bane himself is a member of. Heritage of the Sith and the Essential Guide to the Force refer to Palpatine as "the culmination of Sith philosophy and teachings." Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith "had not merely been waiting for an appropriate time to reemerge and exact revenge, but for the birth of one strong enough to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. This was Sidious: powerful enough to hide in plain sight. Powerful enough to instruct his apprentice, Dooku, to expose him, and still remain hidden from the Jedi." This statement is corroborated by the Complete Visual Dictionary:

"The Sith have waited a millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one -- the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side." -- page 194.

While that says nothing for Palpatine in comparison to the Ancient Sith, it does leave no doubt: Palpatine is canonically confirmed by multiple sources to be a more powerful Force user and Sith Lord than Darth Bane; it's not up for debate, really.

He gained a lot of knowledge in between ROTS and ROTJ because he destroyed the Jedi Order and was free to raid the galaxy. So his mastery and knowledge would be more complete than before, making him more powerful.

As of the original trilogy, Palpatine's knowledge of the Force is greater and more encompassing than any single Force user in the entire mythos. But even before that, the Dark Side Sourcebook mentions that Darth Sidious was privy to an extraordinary "wealth of Sith knowledge" and Complete Locations also goes into great detail regarding Palpatine's considerable knowledge at that point as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
So what you're saying is that Yoda isn't arrogantly proclaiming himself to be the most powerful Jedi in history, but that the narrator is declaring that to be the case based off of Yoda's own experiences and knowledge?

Correct.

Leave it to the German guy to explain this scenario better than two people who speak English.

Yeah. I know that I'm ownage incarnated. 😉

Edit: For the record, Yoda doesn't think of the Emperor as the most powerful Sith Lord ever. He just comes to the conclusion he's in the middle of a fight that he's destined to lose.

If I'm not totally mistaken, the "most powerful Sith Lord in history" line also is written from Yoda's perspective, isn't it?

And essentially Yoda comes to the conclusion that he can't defeat Sidious there, because he just "doesn't have it". Quite wrong, if you ask me, considering that his inferior [Mace] already did the job and also considering that Lucas himself said, Yoda could take it up with Sidious. Of course this might just refer to the situation they are in.

As of the original trilogy, Palpatine's knowledge of the Force is greater and more encompassing than any single Force user in the entire mythos. But even before that, the Dark Side Sourcebook mentions that Darth Sidious was privy to an extraordinary "wealth of Sith knowledge" and Complete Locations also goes into great detail regarding Palpatine's considerable knowledge at that point as well.

While this might be true, the point with knowledge it that it doesn't translate into "power" in a linear fashion. For example you can't state that if a person gained the knowledge stored in one holocron, receiving powerlevel X by this, taking the knowledge from another holocron with the same amount of knowledge [although different knowledge] will result in reaching powerlevel Y (2 times powerlevel X).

Essentially: The more power and knowledge you already have, the less difference new knowledge will make, talking about your powerlevel as well as about your total knowledge base. So if one already has a gigantic amount of knowledge up his sleeve and had more than 6 decades to study it, new knowledge gained past that may just as well be a drop in the bucket.

And lastly we're confronted with the fact, that in almost any situation superior talent [or force potential] beats superior experience / knowledge in the SW universe. Otherwise Anakin should have never been able to pose a threat to Dooku for example.

Originally posted by Nai
If I'm not totally mistaken, the "most powerful Sith Lord in history" line also is written from Yoda's perspective, isn't it?

No. The Revenge of the Sith novelization attributes many flattering accolades to Palpatine and his level of power and mastery, but it never states that the Emperor is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history.

And essentially Yoda comes to the conclusion that he can't defeat Sidious there, because he just "doesn't have it". Quite wrong, if you ask me, considering that his inferior [Mace] already did the job and also considering that Lucas himself said, Yoda could take it up with Sidious. Of course this might just refer to the situation they are in.

There's clearly a parity there; as you said, George Lucas said that you have to be Mace Windu or Yoda to compete with the Emperor, and Yoda certainly does that. I'd attribute the epiphany and the lamentations of defeat to the fact that it was just in that situation. Yoda was destined to lose, not that he was necessarily inferior.

While this might be true, the point with knowledge it that it doesn't translate into "power" in a linear fashion. For example you can't state that if a person gained the knowledge stored in one holocron, receiving powerlevel X by this, taking the knowledge from another holocron with the same amount of knowledge [although different knowledge] will result in reaching powerlevel Y (2 times powerlevel X).

Of course not, but given the ridiculously great spectrum of knowledge Palpatine is stated to have mastered, it does nothing but to enhance his level of power.

Essentially: The more power and knowledge you already have, the less difference new knowledge will make, talking about your powerlevel as well as about your total knowledge base. So if one already has a gigantic amount of knowledge up his sleeve and had more than 6 decades to study it, new knowledge gained past that may just as well be a drop in the bucket.

Probably.

And lastly we're confronted with the fact, that in almost any situation superior talent [or force potential] beats superior experience / knowledge in the SW universe. Otherwise Anakin should have never been able to pose a threat to Dooku for example.

I disagree with your example. While Skywalker was able to defeat Dooku in combat, it's explicitly clear that the Count's Force mastery was still superior.

By the way, Boston Legal has been renewed for one final, thirteen episode season. Hopefully, if Spader wins the Emmy again, it'll extend. Think he's got a shot?

By the way, Boston Legal has been renewed for one final, thirteen episode season. Hopefully, if Spader wins the Emmy again, it'll extend. Think he's got a shot?

They're already thinking about a series finale? Boston Legal is such a great show that if Shatner can keep breathing, it should last for years. Why are they thinking about a final season?

Originally posted by Jbill311
They're already thinking about a series finale? Boston Legal is such a great show that if Shatner can keep breathing, it should last for years. Why are they thinking about a final season?

Because the average viewer rating per episode is abysmal. Shark was pulling in 14 million or so an episode and was cancelled in its second season. I believe that Boston Legal was pulling in half that number; the only reason that it's been going this long is because James Spader is a ****ing powerhouse at the Emmys. He's been kicking the asses of both Hugh Laurie and James Gandolfini for years; but this new television show "Mad Men" or whatever seems to be getting a lot of hype and one of its lead actors has been nominated. I'm concerned. But, yeah, BL is my favorite show. And James Spader's Alan Shore is the greatest laywer in television history, right up there with James Woods' Sebastian Stark.

House >>>>> Boston Legal. Don't even go there.

Sam Waterson's McCoy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Spader's anything. By far.

As a law show, Law and Order>>>>>ALL

Originally posted by Faunus
House >>>>> Boston Legal. Don't even go there.

**** you, you mother****ing piece of poo!

James Spader kicks the holy OMG shit out of Hugh Laurie. When you're so badass that your show, not filled with young, attractive celebrities and relies purely on intruige and politics, continues on for many years due to your own abilities as an actor, you're a step up from Hugh Laurie.

LS, I hate you too!

....House has a lot of young, attractive celebrities? Did somebody replace Hugh Laurie?

Originally posted by Faunus
House >>>>> Boston Legal. Don't even go there.

Everyone but Laurie is young and attractive by society's standards. Not the case for Boston Legal.

Anyways, Emmys are on. I'm off. Ciao!

WTF are you talking about, tool? House defines sexy.

And what show have you been watching? Cuddy, Cameron, Thirteen (bi), and dozens of randomly hot patients and guests = hot.

What, James Spader can't be involved with sexy?

Ok, who's seen Crash? Or Secretary?

No. Spader is a fatty. He IS the coolest lawyer I've ever seen on TV though, his rants border on the Badass. Shatner is pretty good too.

Boston Legal > House, but only because House lacks the sheer Badassery of a Spader + Shatner Combo. Hugh Laurie does his best, but in the most recent episode he got Told by Wilson- and NOBODY gets told by Wilson.

House is greater than you. And Shatner. And Gideon's mom. And Publius.

Especially Publius.

Reiteration FTW.

I never said I > House- being house is automatically Badass. Shatner has lasers to shoot. Does Hugh Laurie have lasers? No. He is not as BA.

Logic FTW. 🪩