Pyron and Nosgoth vs Dark Titan and Jedah

Originally posted by Utrigita
And does his strenght etc increase as he grows?

Not always a smaller person can hit harder then a heavier person provided that the smaller person uses his momentum to deliver the punch.

There are three things which attribute to strike force.

Strength. Which Pyron takes.

Speed. Which Pyron also takes.

Mass. Which Pyron undeniably takes.

And technique, which Pyron prolly takes as far as H2H is concerned.

So Pyron WILL be hitting harder, and that is just a normal punch, in combat Pyron morphs his body for melee attacks.

Originally posted by Burning thought
There are many beings who could elminate Sargeras, Elder God alone is both far larger than him as well as untouchable multi reality being who would crush the Titan, hes like a super old God on steroids, but Azimoth and the dimentional beings could BFR sargeras into a random dimension he could not escape from to win the battle. Thats if Kain doesnt just elminate him with ease.

How is he supposed to crush Sargeras, when he could not even handle Kain? Sargeras is larger, more endurant, stronger and from what is recorded ability-wise: stronger on a magical level over Kain?

And what makes you so certain that Azimoth and them people could BFR Sargeras? He can cross dimensions like they are doors in a hallway, you know. Not that he has to be in the same dimension to attack them, which we have seen at more than one occasion.

Then we have the Kain matter, that I can not see Kain walking away from. There is more than one way to stop the unstoppable, and while Kain can keep on coming back from the dead, Sargeras could always take the reaver away from him and imprison him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes it caused it, but Sarg wasnt hit by the sundering still.

Actually, Sargeras was more exposed to the sundering than anyone else. The destruction of the world was only a side-effect from the actual blast, which was the implosion of the portal. The portal which Sargeras was trying to crawl out of when it imploded. So while he may not have been present at the sundering, he did take the heavy hit.

Originally posted by Becci
How is he supposed to crush Sargeras, when he could not even handle Kain? Sargeras is larger, more endurant, stronger and from what is recorded ability-wise: stronger on a magical level over Kain?

And what makes you so certain that Azimoth and them people could BFR Sargeras? He can cross dimensions like they are doors in a hallway, you know. Not that he has to be in the same dimension to attack them, which we have seen at more than one occasion.

Then we have the Kain matter, that I can not see Kain walking away from. There is more than one way to stop the unstoppable, and while Kain can keep on coming back from the dead, Sargeras could always take the reaver away from him and imprison him.

Actually, Sargeras was more exposed to the sundering than anyone else. The destruction of the world was only a side-effect from the actual blast, which was the implosion of the portal. The portal which Sargeras was trying to crawl out of when it imploded. So while he may not have been present at the sundering, he did take the heavy hit.

Kain is more difficult to get thats why, not only is Kain immortal to not being able to die for any reason so thats besides the point but Kain unlike Sarg has a near instant power of ripping out the souls of enemies or creating a shield to protect himself that has a well of eternity sized energy source ,himself. Sarg size will be the death of him against pyron. Magical level? what shows sargs magical level to be above kains?

What makes you say he can cross dimensions? in what source does it say this?

Take the reaver from Kain? what a joke....Sarg would do this how before he is atoms? this is Scion kain, his overall manipulative powers would be beyond any in this arena for sure, however even normal Defiance Kain has so many abilities, one of them whether it be soul ripping, time powers etc would mess up Sargeras and drainign Sarg of all his power would be another painful experiance for the Dark titan, which makes a Kain/Pyron team combo near unstoppable, Kain can take away their energy while Pyron can deliver a blow they would unlikely survive.

Can you show me this please? your source?

mmm

Kain kicks em all into the sun 😖hifty:

My ass itches. mmm

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain is more difficult to get thats why, not only is Kain immortal to not being able to die for any reason so thats besides the point but Kain unlike Sarg has a near instant power of ripping out the souls of enemies or creating a shield to protect himself that has a well of eternity sized energy source ,himself. Sarg size will be the death of him against pyron. Magical level? what shows sargs magical level to be above kains?

What makes you say he can cross dimensions? in what source does it say this?

Take the reaver from Kain? what a joke....Sarg would do this how before he is atoms? this is Scion kain, his overall manipulative powers would be beyond any in this arena for sure, however even normal Defiance Kain has so many abilities, one of them whether it be soul ripping, time powers etc would mess up Sargeras and drainign Sarg of all his power would be another painful experiance for the Dark titan, which makes a Kain/Pyron team combo near unstoppable, Kain can take away their energy while Pyron can deliver a blow they would unlikely survive.

Can you show me this please? your source?

Before I start, I would just like to let you know that I find you rather hypocritic.

Now: What do you mean, unlike Sargeras? Entities far below Sargeras, has with power granted them by Sargeras, ripped souls out of a body just like that. Heck, we can go down many steps. Arthas ripped out a soul with the blessing of Lich King, who was blessed by Kil'Jaeden, who was blessed by Sargeras. If someone as far down in the foodchain as Arthas could rip out a soul, then imagine Sargeras. Of course, we can not prove he is any better than Arthas at it, so ripping the soul out with a grasp will have to do.

I find it interesting that you compare Kain with the Well of Eternity, since a sorcerer far weaker than Sargeras could destroy the Well despite the limitless essence.

You mean other than the fact that the Titans traveled dimensions rather often? And that Sargeras has an ability known as dimension door? Or that lesser magical entities can travel dimensions in Warcraft? Not only dimensions though, but other realities and timestreams are traveled in Warcraft. If you think Warcraft is nothing but a lot of planets in a universe, think again. There are several dimensions that are often mentioned, and Twisting Nether one of the most common ones. In fact, whenever a person move from Azeroth to Outlands in WoW, they cross a dimension. When Kil'Jaeden arise in the Sunwell Plataeu, he is coming from a seperate dimension. Whenever a druid falls asleep, they visit another dimension. Warlocks constantly manipulate seperate dimensions to bring forth demonic forces and powers. In a single day, Gul'Dan taught average shamans how to open rifts into dimensions. Would you like all of these examples specified to from where they come?

Drain all of Sargeras power? Turn him into atoms? Rip his soul? While I am certain his soul will not be touched, I would like you to show me Kain turning anyone into atoms, or Kain draining all of anyones power that is of Sargeras magnitude. Time manipulation? A timebolt and an areal slow time ability, right?

...Becci, you didn't answer my post...🙁

You like BT better, don't you? cry

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Becci, you didn't answer my post...🙁

You like BT better, don't you? cry

Not at all. Quite the contruary. You just bring better points of debate, that require more thinking when it comes to delivering a response. Burning Thought has less good points, which are far easier to respond to. If anything, you should take me not responding as something good 😉 I need to think when you bring your points up, while Burning Thought's points are just so .... simple 😛

Originally posted by Becci
Before I start, I would just like to let you know that I find you rather hypocritic.

Now: What do you mean, unlike Sargeras? Entities far below Sargeras, has with power granted them by Sargeras, ripped souls out of a body just like that. Heck, we can go down many steps. Arthas ripped out a soul with the blessing of Lich King, who was blessed by Kil'Jaeden, who was blessed by Sargeras. If someone as far down in the foodchain as Arthas could rip out a soul, then imagine Sargeras. Of course, we can not prove he is any better than Arthas at it, so ripping the soul out with a grasp will have to do.

I find it interesting that you compare Kain with the Well of Eternity, since a sorcerer far weaker than Sargeras could destroy the Well despite the limitless essence.

You mean other than the fact that the Titans traveled dimensions rather often? And that Sargeras has an ability known as dimension door? Or that lesser magical entities can travel dimensions in Warcraft? Not only dimensions though, but other realities and timestreams are traveled in Warcraft. If you think Warcraft is nothing but a lot of planets in a universe, think again. There are several dimensions that are often mentioned, and Twisting Nether one of the most common ones. In fact, whenever a person move from Azeroth to Outlands in WoW, they cross a dimension. When Kil'Jaeden arise in the Sunwell Plataeu, he is coming from a seperate dimension. Whenever a druid falls asleep, they visit another dimension. Warlocks constantly manipulate seperate dimensions to bring forth demonic forces and powers. In a single day, Gul'Dan taught average shamans how to open rifts into dimensions. Would you like all of these examples specified to from where they come?

Drain all of Sargeras power? Turn him into atoms? Rip his soul? While I am certain his soul will not be touched, I would like you to show me Kain turning anyone into atoms, or Kain draining all of anyones power that is of Sargeras magnitude. Time manipulation? A timebolt and an areal slow time ability, right?

beings below Kain, like his sons dont all have the same powers as Kain and Kain doesnt have their powers either, simply saying "well Sarg created this one, so he created this and etc etc etc" doesnt mean much unless you can prove Sarg can actually manip souls, his magic from what Ive read has never been heralded.

I compared Kains energy storage to the well,s which ofc is infnite.

The Twisting nether is a dimension? i realise the warlocks call beings from other realms but are they other dimensions or simply planes of reality? since not everything is a diffrent dimension.

Your Certain his soul will not be touched? how so? has he shown Soul invulerability?

Turning someone into atoms could be done using the concept of Energy, since beings bodies are functioned or made up of diffrent types of energy, a combinatio nof energy concept and states would do fine, althouh hes not done it, just like Sarg you assume he would have Fel powers since he invented it wouldnt you? so Kain has access to these powers infnitley due to his magical connection.

A timebolt that freezes beings yes.

Draining Sargeras Energy would be easy, Kain regulates magic, he would reduce Sarg to nothing.

Originally posted by Becci
Not at all. Quite the contruary. You just bring better points of debate, that require more thinking when it comes to delivering a response. Burning Thought has less good points, which are far easier to respond to. If anything, you should take me not responding as something good 😉 I need to think when you bring your points up, while Burning Thought's points are just so .... simple 😛

Youll eat those words when were on page 30 of this debate with me as the only opposing figuire and you requiring backup of Cowgril, utrigos and maybe even Dark C.

Originally posted by Becci
Not at all. Quite the contruary. You just bring better points of debate, that require more thinking when it comes to delivering a response. Burning Thought has less good points, which are far easier to respond to. If anything, you should take me not responding as something good 😉 I need to think when you bring your points up, while Burning Thought's points are just so .... simple 😛

But thanks for t3h compliment. haermm

hug

Originally posted by Burning thought
Youll eat those words when were on page 30 of this debate with me as the only opposing figuire and you requiring backup of Cowgril, utrigos and maybe even Dark C.

I assume you meant 3 and not 30.

Backup?! Is that how you see it? You are more arrogant than I thought. So anyone that debate for Sargeras is my backup against your awesome debating skills, then?

Realitycheck: They never came to my rescue, because I never had anything I needed to be rescued from. They are not my 'backup', they are merely people with opinions different from yours. Everything is not black and white, Burning Thought. Everyone doesnt team up against you, even though from where you sit I imagine you see it that way. You arent that awesome debater that can stand alone against entire crowds, even though you might think you are.

Realitycheck: You are a terrible debater, with crappy argumental strategies and an arrogance that makes Arthas seem humble. You point out and complain about usage of different fallacies when it suits you and use them yourself when it suits your character in question, ignorantly ignoring the fact that you are the same person that you complain many others to be. You completely burden everyone with requests of proof to completely insignificant points, most likely because you want to find whatever holes that might exist, while you yourself expect everyone to believe you because 'so is simply the case'.

Realitycheck: If you ever looked at Kain with as much critic as you look at every single other character that is against him, or other characters you speak in favor of in various battle threads on this forum, you would find a lot of holes in your bulletproof 'Kain is awesome'-wall. You are a smart kid, but your way of debating is terrible. You are narrowminded, and sees just about only what you want to see. You are merely too stubborn to realise that Kain is not even close to as powerful as your image of him is. Use that intelligence of yours to open your mind and reflect on Kain or whoever as well, rather than focuse it on tearing everything that oppose you down.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Confidence boosts ftw. 131

But thanks for t3h compliment. haermm

hug

You are welcome 😄

Originally posted by Becci
I assume you meant 3 and not 30.

[b]Backup?! Is that how you see it? You are more arrogant than I thought. So anyone that debate for Sargeras is my backup against your awesome debating skills, then?

Realitycheck: They never came to my rescue, because I never had anything I needed to be rescued from. They are not my 'backup', they are merely people with opinions different from yours. Everything is not black and white, Burning Thought. Everyone doesnt team up against you, even though from where you sit I imagine you see it that way. You arent that awesome debater that can stand alone against entire crowds, even though you might think you are.

Realitycheck: You are a terrible debater, with crappy argumental strategies and an arrogance that makes Arthas seem humble. You point out and complain about usage of different fallacies when it suits you and use them yourself when it suits your character in question, ignorantly ignoring the fact that you are the same person that you complain many others to be. You completely burden everyone with requests of proof to completely insignificant points, most likely because you want to find whatever holes that might exist, while you yourself expect everyone to believe you because 'so is simply the case'.

Realitycheck: If you ever looked at Kain with as much critic as you look at every single other character that is against him, or other characters you speak in favor of in various battle threads on this forum, you would find a lot of holes in your bulletproof 'Kain is awesome'-wall. You are a smart kid, but your way of debating is terrible. You are narrowminded, and sees just about only what you want to see. You are merely too stubborn to realise that Kain is not even close to as powerful as your image of him is. Use that intelligence of yours to open your mind and reflect on Kain or whoever as well, rather than focuse it on tearing everything that oppose you down. [/B]

No 30

Probably, you need backup because tbh you dont usually do well againts me in debates, onyl Dark C and utrigos can counter me properly, otherwise you just give opinions that are from simple opionionated views, not in debatable views.

They are a form of backup, anyone on your side would be the backup, especially friends. oh but i do, have and have done for long before you came to this section of this forum have I deabted against hordes and usually beat them into silence.

Wow, ime being told ime terrible by a terrible debator herself, I dont use fallacies, if I do point them out please. Because it is simply the case, people belive some of the things i say because ive given proof of it before since many of the debators are old, and nitpicking proof points is the best way to shatter a debate, there is always something someone is hiding or cannot tell you that from a debating point of view can kill their argument, thats hwy ime a good debator, not "terrible", ive had several fairly good debates with people, including utrigos where we even settled a point civily, I can be a nice debator sometimes, or aggressive.

Then point out these holes Becci please do, because from my "narrowminded" point of view your ranting on about how terrible i am without providing anything yourself, showing any examples, your simply attacking in a way which although amusing are pointless without any major backing. Too stubborn to realise Kain is not as powerful? lol, against what opposition? your post right there is a constant reminder to me how weak many deabtors are in how they cannot even point out the merest clue to their ideal that ime wrong when I can backup most if not all what I say with something.

I can use it to tear apart and see into characters I know, and have known for a long time, its your job to use my "narrowmindedness" against me and actually beat me in a debate for once? Ranting saddity is neither required nor interesting.

Originally posted by Burning thought
because when I use scion kain i used specific abilities, like an area of control such as energy, wheras calling Sarg powerful just becaue he is above his army doesnt help in a debate.

I dont know, I think it reduces as he shrinks however.

Well Pyron wins both, since his momentum can reach lightspeed anyway...

yes it caused it, but Sarg wasnt hit by the sundering still.

What is Scion Kain specific abilities then what has he demonstrated on panel, that's right absolutely nothing that can support your Kain > Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden, you are basing Scion Kains powerlevel on assumptions based on other Characters. I would like a explanation why you can use other Characters to argue for a Character with no feats when I on the other hand cannot use Characters to give a example of what my Character that actually has feats to further prove what he is capable of.

But you don't know?

And How will I ask again will that help him, you haven't provided a shreed of proof that point against Sargeras skin even being pierced by other then Nature magic, as Becci has already mentioned that Axe contained the power of a Planet.

No he was just hit by the force that produced the sundering 😬

Originally posted by Utrigita
What is Scion Kain specific abilities then what has he demonstrated on panel, that's right absolutely nothing that can support your Kain > Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden, you are basing Scion Kains powerlevel on assumptions based on other Characters. I would like a explanation why you can use other Characters to argue for a Character with no feats when I on the other hand cannot use Characters to give a example of what my Character that actually has feats to further prove what he is capable of.

But you don't know?

And How will I ask again will that help him, you haven't provided a shreed of proof that point against Sargeras skin even being pierced by other then Nature magic, as Becci has already mentioned that Axe contained the power of a Planet.

No he was just hit by the force that produced the sundering 😬

Hes not demontrated, but he has "capabilities" that are all obvious and known because of beings who are exactley the same in the LOK universe, diffrence being he is far more powerful than all of them because his combination of power, their power makes him so powerful. You can use characters you can prove he has the same powers as, Sargeras didnt give the Eredar every power they have, they were already masterful magicians, maybe even beyond Sargeras himself, you cannot assume just because he corrupted them further warping some of their powers because of his fel magic that he automiatcially has their powers, its not the same relationship.

No i dont, Dark Jaxx would know if anyone

You think the power of a planet>>countless galaxies?

A what of proof? my role is not to provide proof for a negative, you have to provide proof that Sargaras CAN survive something the size of a Gas giant hitting him at light speed, it would be like me saying Kain has never been hit by such a foce, therefore he is invuleralbe to such forces....which ofc is BS, Sargeras has not even been hit by many things and nothing to the degree of pyrons impact and this will be without any power after Kain drains him to nothing.

Where does it say there was a force until after the portal collapsed? the world was not being destroyed with the portal open, it was simply the portal imploding that caused the explosion..which Sarg apprently was not present for after the sundering.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes not demontrated, but he has "capabilities" that are all obvious and known because of beings who are exactley the same in the LOK universe, diffrence being he is far more powerful than all of them because his combination of power, their power makes him so powerful. You can use characters you can prove he has the same powers as, Sargeras didnt give the Eredar every power they have, they were already masterful magicians, maybe even beyond Sargeras himself, you cannot assume just because he corrupted them further warping some of their powers because of his fel magic that he automiatcially has their powers, its not the same relationship.

No i dont, Dark Jaxx would know if anyone

You think the power of a planet>>countless galaxies?

A what of proof? my role is not to provide proof for a negative, you have to provide proof that Sargaras [b]CAN survive something the size of a Gas giant hitting him at light speed, it would be like me saying Kain has never been hit by such a foce, therefore he is invuleralbe to such forces....which ofc is BS, Sargeras has not even been hit by many things and nothing to the degree of pyrons impact and this will be without any power after Kain drains him to nothing.

Where does it say there was a force until after the portal collapsed? the world was not being destroyed with the portal open, it was simply the portal imploding that caused the explosion..which Sarg apprently was not present for after the sundering. [/B]

Oh he has the capability just like Sargeras but not a single damm feat to support him taking out Archimonde, you know BT the only difference here is instead of Sargeras being relevant in this scenario it's Kain, and then suddenly other characters feats are a nice way to make a assumption about the powerlevel of a character when he has none himself. Eh yes I can because the Guy invented Fel Magic the same magic that Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden wields, I furthermore because Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden where Fleas, that means that they can be all the master sorcerer they wishes, they can become as powerful as their mind allows them and they are still beneath Sargeras.

That depends on the situation, what if we for instance have Kain and drops all those Galaxies on him? He would be killed over and over because he is immortal however suppose that in that planet where the thing just required to kill him? Then the Planet would >>> the Galaxies, it a even better example when taking Galactus, Galactus can feed on one Planet and destroy countless Galaxies...

I have already mentioned and Becci further elaborated that Sargeras hasn't been hurted by anything besides nature magic, now it's up too you to provide proof to the contrary, I actually like the comparison A Axe infused with Natur Power can harm him but the implosion of a Portal that rips a world apart cannot.

Because Sargeras was using his strength to keep the portal open, then it implodes with Sargeras in the middle of it, and we learn from the book that he is unharmed but furious and to where he was, the same place as before in the twisted nether.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Oh he has the capability just like Sargeras but not a single damm feat to support him taking out Archimonde, you know BT the only difference here is instead of Sargeras being relevant in this scenario it's Kain, and then suddenly other characters feats are a nice way to make a assumption about the powerlevel of a character when he has none himself. Eh yes I can because the Guy invented Fel Magic the same magic that Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden wields, I furthermore because Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden where Fleas, that means that they can be all the master sorcerer they wishes, they can become as powerful as their mind allows them and they are still beneath Sargeras.

That depends on the situation, what if we for instance have Kain and drops all those Galaxies on him? He would be killed over and over because he is immortal however suppose that in that planet where the thing just required to kill him? Then the Planet would >>> the Galaxies, it a even better example when taking Galactus, Galactus can feed on one Planet and destroy countless Galaxies...

I have already mentioned and Becci further elaborated that Sargeras hasn't been hurted by anything besides nature magic, now it's up too you to provide proof to the contrary, I actually like the comparison A Axe infused with Natur Power can harm him but the implosion of a Portal that rips a world apart cannot.

Because Sargeras was using his strength to keep the portal open, then it implodes with Sargeras in the middle of it, and we learn from the book that he is unharmed but furious and to where he was, the same place as before in the twisted nether.

Him being above them does not mean magically, and nothing states every sorcery they use is from Sarg, where does it state all Eredar powers derived from sargeras, the Eredar were a race of surpeme sorcerors by themselves...it was part of their culture and everything to do with it.

But nothing is officially stated only Nature magic can damage Sargeras, only that the Azeroth way of dealing with him best is nature powers, either way overall its far less power than Pyron and Sarg I [b]KNOW[/]b has never been hit by the force Pyron could hit him with.

No your using the "no limits" fallacy, you claim that because he has only been harmed by nature magic, nothing else should be able to damage him, would you equelly claim Galactus and Living tribunal wouldnt be able to harm Sargeras without using nature powers?......ridiculous notion, the main thing is, Sargeras has not been shown resistant to physical damage either.

Nothing so far implies he was hit by the implosion power, only that the implosion destroyed Azeroth, not that it actually hit Sargeras who was left in the Nether as you said.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nothing so far implies he was hit by the implosion power, only that the implosion destroyed Azeroth, not that it actually hit Sargeras who was left in the Nether as you said.

Oh please. Like you are in a position to say that. And for the record, you are both wrong.

Utrigita: Sargeras was not in the Twisting Nether before. Only after. When Brox swung his Ax, he was not in the Nether, and neither was Sargeras.
Burning Thought: Everything implies that he was hit by the implosion.

Originally posted by Becci
Oh please. Like you are in a position to say that. And for the record, you are both wrong.

Utrigita: Sargeras was not in the Twisting Nether before. Only after. When Brox swung his Ax, he was not in the Nether, and neither was Sargeras.
Burning Thought: Everything implies that he was hit by the implosion.

Ime in a position to say what i like, since as i said, nothing so far implies means you dont have any proof or statements.

Everything implies? can yuo show me please this proof, since nothing in this thread implies that, I know your a terrible Proof finder but why dont you at least quote the exact text where it implies he was hit by the full power that sundered the world?