Originally posted by Becci
An essay is far longer 9 out of 10 cases, but you with your awesome grades know this already 😉 Is there anything you would like to add to everything?
It is an expression, and my grades have nothing to do with it. An essay is considered to be 5 or more paragraphs long. You have surpassed that, technically if you are counting 5 sen. per paragraph. And just because I say the word "Essay" doesn't mean you have to get on my case about it. All in all, I have nothing to add.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. It LITERALLY has the power of the entire world, or just all the power of "Earth," The nature magic in other words? Also, one other thing, I assume said character without the axe is not very physically strong, it was totally the axe's doing correct? The damage I mean. Well, since Pyron possesses more power and can hit harder, he will do more damage than a weakling(in comparison) with a powerful weapon.Fire is Sargeras' immunity? Well...It's not like all of Pyron's attacks even use fire really, his strongest attack is probably Cosmic Disruption in-game, and that has no trace of fire at all. And saying nature damage is all that can hurt Sargeras is in fact a No-Limits fallacy. Pyron possesses more power than all of the Scourse, the Horde, the Alliance, and the current Burning Legion combined(barring Sargeras himself), Arichmonde and Kiljaedan are as nothing to him.
Illidan casted a spell with a special artifact did he not? He does not have constant access to all that power at all times from what I have seen.
...Not really, no. haermm
Narrator claim various different things of Brox's Ax during the book. That it has the power of Elune, that it has he power of nature itself and also claims that the weapon is imbued with the power of Kalimdor. It is actually never specified that nature damage is the factor, but given the fact that two druids imbued it, nature damage is the most likely factor of the weapon.
The swinger of the Ax is in this perspective very weak. While he was incredibly strong for a mortal, compared to Sargeras and Pyron he is nothing. The act of Sargeras scratch was to a hundred percent the doing of the weapon. According to Krasus, it was a miracle that Sargeras was even scraped, even by a weapon of such might: "A small slash mark decorated his right leg, a mark that Krasus's keen eyes recognizedas made by an ax. Brox's ax. Impossible as it seemed, the enhanced weapon had scratched Sargeras.
Had Krasus sought to strike Sargeras directly, either in the chest or head, the results would have been laughable, at least to the demon lord. That Brox had managed his miraculous attack at all said much of the power imbued in the weapon by the druid and his shan'do"
I personally do not think I have said that only nature damage can harm Sargeras. Only that nature damage is the only thing that ever has. If I at whatever point claimed that Sargeras can not be harmed with anything else than nature damage, I take it back. What I do not take back, is that I do not think Pyron has what it takes to kill Sargeras.
And Illidan is a known master ritualist. Follow his process troughout War of the Ancients, Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, then you will see. Illidan, whilst not in the league of the War of the Ancients party, is rather powerful. And during the sundering, Illidan used no artifact. He intercepted in the weaving that was done to the Demon Soul. That was the only artifact that was involved, but he did not use it.
No? Darn haermm
Originally posted by Becci
In fact, they are like fleas when it comes to power over Sargeras. The book says: "In comparison to Sargeras, both Archimonde and Mannoroth were as fleas. The power of a hundred dragons would have been as nothing to him", this along with the rest of the page clearly implicate that power and magic is the subject of which Krasus speak.Good thing Sargeras is more endurant than Azeroth then. The fact that Pyron is big has significance, but just because he is big does not automaticly mean he can harm Sargeras. Why is it you think that Sargeras is so vulnerable to Pyron's punches? Because he is smaller? Kain is even smaller and yet you claim him able to protect himself against Pryon with his shield. Quit being so hypocritic, and yes, I know you will now bring up the whole "indestructable" thing. But newsflash to you: Sargeras is claimed indestructable as well. Much like how Superman is vulnerable to magic, Sargeras is vulnerable to nature magic. Something Pyron does not have. In fact, that is not even true. Sargeras is only vulnerable to immortal magic, which was exactly what the Ax of Brox was. Imbued with immortal magic (The magic of Kalimdor dwelled within the Ax, as stated by narrator. The greatest druids of all times imbued it with the power of Azeroth and Elune)
More power? Not at all. Compared to the top tier, Pyron is dwarfed in power. He is more dangerous than anything Warcraft can spit out, though, this is true. He is far from more powerful though. Pyron has more size, which is the only reason team one would win this fight if they did. An equal-sized Pyron or a 20% Pyron would never oppose the threat our several planet-sizes Pyron can.
Excuse me? The Well of Eternity and the Demon Soul were bound to the portal! It was when the portal imploded that the world 'ended' as the so gently book said. The implosion brought the disasterious effect on the planet, when it imploded. But this is not of significance though, since while weak characters survived being present at the sundering, Sargeras survived while actually being in the middle of the implosion.
1. Geesh! A Gas Giant does not have a specific size. If you want to try accuse me for not knowing how big a gas giant is, I suggest you stop right there. Do you take me for an idiot? A gas giant has no set size, so if you are trying to prove a Pyron point by bringing the term gas giant into things here, you failed. Utterly.
The Ax of Brox was by narrator said to contain the magic of Kalimdor, granted them by the Goddess Elune.2. The Eye of Sargeras? What are you? Desperate? There was no Eye of Sargeras at the time in Azeroth. Illidan interveened in the portal process with the weaving of a spell himself, and maybe an hour later he was the official destroyer of the planet. There were no fancy artifacts for him to use. It was just him, the spells he knew and the blessing he had been granted by Sargeras. Sure Illidan's spell would be useless in combat, but that is not my point.
Are you blind?: "As the portal imploded, the demon lord found himself trapped. He could not flee, could not pull back. Dropping his sword, the titan even battered against the gateway with his fists, but to no avail. The corridor between realms shrank rapidly, at last crushing in on him". Sargeras was literally inside the portal when it crushed inwards by an implosion. IMPLOSION! CRUSHING!
Implosion: Implosion is a process in which objects are destroyed by collapsing in on themselves. The opposite of explosion, implosion concentrates matter and energy. An example of implosion is a submarine being crushed from the outside by the hydrostatic pressure of the surrounding water. A violent compression.
Crushing: To bring to an end forcibly as if by imposing a heavy weight. To press forcefully so as to break up into a pulpy mass. To break up into tiny particles.
I assume you already know that when a star goes supernova, it implodes. As is it a key part to the rise of neutron stars and black holes. Of course you do. I am also sure you have a perfect explanation ready to be used on how Sargeras will die by Pyron's punch while he survived being in the center of an implosion.
That shows how you exaggerate as well, 100 dragons? thats puny, whats a 100 dragons to Pyron? nothing....even Archimonde can kill an adult dragon with a gesture or so you like saying so either the books view of them being as "fleas" to him is simply an overexageration or when they claim 100 dragons they mean aspect dragons, either way this is not evident, 100 dragons lol, shows how weak sarg is really since although it claims they would be as nothing to him, I wouldnt be surprised if they would be very little to Archimonde or Kiljaeden either, least of all Pyron.
Ime not hypocritic at all, Sargeras does not have access to infnite magic nor does he have access to Kains repel shield so ime not being hypocritical at all if Kain has better ways of surviving than Sargeras. Sargeras is claimed which is then proven wrong as soon as Brox axe makes a scratch, thus he is not indestructable.
Dwarfed in power? explain?....I wouldnt be surprised if Pyron could wipe ut the Pantheon with fair ease, sure their featless so its a bit unfair but still they are simply planet builders, not even real warriors. Not really, Team one could win with Kain alone since this is full powered Kain, as before he would just drain Sargeras into a non magic being then with all his power gone it would be like clubbing baby seals for Kain.
No the portal brought about the knocking of the Well of Eternity, the well exploded because of the implosion, which happened not long after the implsiion when Sarg was already trapped...as you said he was not struck by the actual sundering exploding WoE, not to mention as you just said many weake beings survived the sundering anyway so its hardly an endurance feat for Sarg.
1. Its enormous, as Dark Jaxx has said before Pyron is larger than his home planet which was apprntly bigger than Jupitor. Yes the axe was powered by several druids and Elune, this doesnt mean much to Pyron who is more destructively powerful than all Warcraft.
2. I was referring to when he broke the top of the world in FF, but more importantly you said earlier that there was more than just Illidan chanelling the portal, hell Malfurion helped did he not? And he did not destroy the planet ,just broke two continents in half, most of the magic being created by specific sources such as Sarg, the evil queen whos name escapes me and the biggie, the real sunder of the world, the WoE.....Illidan just messed up teh portal, it was no massive feat of magic that he destroyed the world since it wasnt actually him destroying it.
No ime not blind, I just dont overhype Sargeras, as it says the implosion, but nothing about the power of teh sundering ,As i said before it was the WoE that sundered the world and surviving the sundering woudlnt be impressive anyway, Sarg was just trapped between the portal.
So now your comparing the power of the portal to a supernova or something? no because that would of vaporised Azeroth and Sargeras, fortuatley it was not a blckhole or supernova, implisions are diffrent, Sargeras merely survived a mortal closing in on him, whos power is unkown.
Alright, I am tired of your assumptions and pretended knowledge of warcraft. Before I quit having this debate with you, there are some things I will point out that you can answer to if you like and hope someone else to respond to. If nothing else, and although, as Krasus said, "it is too much for hope for", you might learn something:
1. Here's a math fact for you: Nothing = Zero. So while the book stated 100, they could as well have stated 500 or more. The reason the number 100 were brought up, is because 100 dragons is a more decent amount in the warcraft universe. While 100 is an acceptable amount, 500 is a fictional amount. An illogical number. Azeroth could and did scrape together 100 dragons, but having 500 is impossible. Just like how they did not bring Kil'Jaeden, or any other powerful Burning Legion member into the 'fleas' example, they only brought up a 100 dragons rather than bringing up a higher amount. Because at the current situation, anything else was fictional to the Warcraft universe.
2. You are right. Archimonde, the one who crushed an adult dragon by grasping his fist is nothing but a flea compared to Sargeras. Keep in mind that the crushed dragon is blue, and resilient to magic.
3. How is it weak to be Sargeras when a hundred dragons is NOTHING to him (100*0=0)? When the unstoppable Demi-God slayer Archimonde is nothing but a flea? I do not know how you can call 100 dragons being nothing for weak. NOTHING is a limitless term in this sentence, meaning that all we know is that 100 dragons would just be nothing compared to him. This quote could, and if it was about Kain, by you, would be used to say that even a 1000 dragons would be pathetic, since dragons of high numbers has already been compared to as if nothing.
4. Sargeras is not indestructable, you are right. We have seen this by Brox Ax in action. And how exactly do you know that Brox's Ax would not penetrate Kain's shield? Exactly, you have no such proof and you can know no such thing. Brox's weapon is of immortal nature and defies what elsewise should be impossible. You are using Legacy of Kain logic, so there is nothing stopping me from using Warcraft logic. But you of course will decline this, and prove that you are hypocritic. Nah, you will admit no such thing now that I have spoiled everything, but that is EXACTLY how you debate. You are allowed to deny it, but any one person on this forum can confirm this. You use fictional logic from Kain's universe but decline fictional logic from other universes. You debate as if LoK is the center of logic and the judge of what is possible and not.
As always, you are being a high-quality, grade A, prime cut, pure, blind hypocritic. The Warcraft universe can destroy the immovable (And I am not only talking about Brox's Ax). If Kain was introduced to a blue dragon, his shield would never hold. If you say it would hold against a blue dragon dispel, you, again, will bring up how hypocritic you are. Sure, I know this post is twistable in my direction, but let me tell you this: Kain's shield is like a paladin's bubble. Spoken in quote, by narrators, by official sources and proven in game to be indestructable. The only reason Kain has never had his shield fail, is because LoK lack the components to budge it. Warcraft does not. There is no such thing as an immovable object. Only degrees of endurance and durability.
5. You really are not listening. Pyron is dwarfed in power, but dwarfes them in danger. I would love to see Pyron create time. I would love to see Pyron create the skies of a planet. I would love to see Pyron create sources of limitless power. I would love to see Pyron imprison the most powerful entities in the universe. I would love to see Pyron control the concept of magic. You really do not get it, do you? Pyron could never beat the Pantheon. The Pantheon would never beat him either, because they are not like that, but Pyron lack the means to destroy them. Aman'Thul alone could make the entire Pantheon safe from Pyron for an eternity. Eonar could bring fallen companions back to life whenever she so desire. Norgannon could create forcefields of massive magnitude. Pyron may be more dangerous than them, but he is not more powerful. He is dwarfed in actual power. He would crush anyone in a matter of direct combat though.
6. And Kain would be able to drain Sargeras.... how? I have already told you that characters far lesser than Sargeras has resisted both life and energy draining. This is even in canon, and not stupid gameplay. I can bring solid proof of this (I will not, since I have no intentions of responding to a possible response by you in this matter. Instead I will point you in the direction of War of the Ancients, Rise of the Horde and Sunwell Triology, where you will get example of both life drain and energy drain being resisted). But of course, since you will be using Kain logic, Sargeras can not possibly resist. You will completely blind your way past any proof of resistance that Warcraft characters can bring out against draining abilities, since Kain's powers are "absolute". Yet another hypocritic point of yours. While other characters would fail doing the same thing to Kain, Kain himself can do it to anyone he wishes with a snap of his fingers. And one thing above all: Kain, based on feats, is a pathetic caster compared to the majority of the significant casters in the Warcraft universe.
7. This show exactly how little you know of what you talk, and this is probably the reason why people that do know about Warcraft find it so frustrating to debate you. You, once again, have made things up because it sounds most logical to you that way. The Well never exploded. It imploded, just like the portal, and the portal was supposed to crush Sargeras while doing so, but did not. You do know what crushing and implosion means, dont you? Thats what I thought. There are very few characters that can say that they survived being in the center of an energy implosion, and while the walls by all logic should have crushed me, they did not, due to my durability.
8. This is interesting. Because as far as I recall, we have never gotten proof of it being larger than Jupiter. I also recall you have tried to get proof of this, but they have failed to provide it. Yet, now, here that you debate for Pyron against Sargeras, it is all of a sudden acceptable that the planet was larger than Jupiter. This is just another example of the person currently known as Hypocrit Burning Thought. You use loose grounds when it suits your argument. Since when have you blindly believed everything Dark-Jaxx have said? I'll tell you when. Since it suited you. When have you questioned everything Dark-Jaxx have said? When it was against the character you speak for. Yes, Pyron is large, but we have gotten no proof of him being Jupiter size or larger. So quit being the desperate anti-Sargeras boy and try see fact as they are, rather than how you want them to be.
9. And your at it again. "Pyron is more than anything in Warcraft. He is automaticly enough to destroy Sargeras", well guess what. If Pyron is more than anything in Warcraft, he is more than anything in LoK and he can automaticly destroy that as well. You will, as always, decline this of course. Be my guest. My words are spoken, and if he is more than all of Warcraft, he definately is more than all of LoK. Entities of Warcraft has shown far more incredible endurance, strength, magic and intelligence feats than anyone in LoK, so by default, Pyron can not only destroy Warcraft, but LoK. This is by your logic. Sounds reasonable, doesnt it? ... ... ... No, it really doesnt. Get real!
10. Malfurion did not help. Where do you get your facts from? If it's WoWWiki, I suggest you stop visiting it, because if WoWWiki says Illidan got help, whoever wrote the wiki article is lying. On the contruary, Illidan was not allowed to take part but did so anyway. He worked against Malfurion, against Sargeras, against the Highbourne, against the Old Gods. Against the Demon Soul. He was all alone. Artifactless. He had to break trough several sources to apply his weaving. And no, you are right, he did not destroy the planet. I merely said what the book said. While the planet remained, the habitants did not quite look at it that way.
11. He did not break two continents apart. He caused a third of the land on the planet to crumble. It wasnt ripped apart. It just happened that two parts of land remained, forming two continents with a third resting below sea-level. It is true that Well of Eternity was the real source of the sundering, but it would not have been if it werent for Illidan. A carpenter needs tools.
12. Crushed within the imploding portal, you mean right? Yeah, that's what I thought. It is not overhype to claim that he survived being crushed by an imploding portal, because that was exactly what he did. The energies of the Demon Soul, the Well of Eternity and all the spells that were in motion compressed everything around Sargeras. The walls that closed in on Sargeras were solid, therefore making surviving the implosion and crushing a very impressive feat: "He struggled to keep the way open, the interior of the gate aflame from his titanic efforts. And then, with the demon lord still shouting his rage and beating at the walls . . .". The portal was not some mere doorway. It had turned into a shrinking cage that crushed him. Perhaps you want me to bring up the crushing part again: "The corridor between realms shrank rapidly, at last crushing in on him"
13. Unknown. There you have the magical word. How can you say it is a weak feat when it is an unknown. We know the following things: Sargeras was crushed by the shrinking. The portal held realms apart. The actual sundering was only a side-effect. Why would Azeroth be vaporized by an effect that was taking place in a different realm? When Krasus stared at Sargeras in the portal, he was looking into another dimension. To claim that Azeroth would fall victim of what happens in that dimension is illogical. And I am not comparing this to a supernova. I am comparing it to the implosion that create a supernova. The compression of a star.
14. The closing of the portal was, stated by narrator, absolute. Irreversable. Impossible to counter. Being absolute means that it can not be altered by any means, and that the result is only a matter of time. Yet, Sargeras held it open before eventually being crushed by it. Anything that has an absolute outcome is by default INCREDIBLY powerful. Yet, Sargeras for a time held this absolute power on bay. I would say that it is a little more than just an "unknown". It is an unknown with a BASE. A base sufficient enough to calculate an estimated power. Has Pyron ever tried contradicting something that is absolute? Sargeras survived an absolute compression that was brought upon him with solid walls.
Originally posted by Becci
Alright, I am tired of your assumptions and pretended knowledge of warcraft. Before I quit having this debate with you, there are some things I will point out that you can answer to if you like and hope someone else to respond to. If nothing else, and although, as Krasus said, "it is too much for hope for", you might learn something:1. Here's a math fact for you: [b]Nothing = Zero
. So while the book stated 100, they could as well have stated 500 or more. The reason the number 100 were brought up, is because 100 dragons is a more decent amount in the warcraft universe. While 100 is an acceptable amount, 500 is a fictional amount. An illogical number. Azeroth could and did scrape together 100 dragons, but having 500 is impossible. Just like how they did not bring Kil'Jaeden, or any other powerful Burning Legion member into the 'fleas' example, they only brought up a 100 dragons rather than bringing up a higher amount. Because at the current situation, anything else was fictional to the Warcraft universe.2. You are right. Archimonde, the one who crushed an adult dragon by grasping his fist is nothing but a flea compared to Sargeras. Keep in mind that the crushed dragon is blue, and resilient to magic.
3. How is it weak to be Sargeras when a hundred dragons is NOTHING to him (100*0=0)? When the unstoppable Demi-God slayer Archimonde is nothing but a flea? I do not know how you can call 100 dragons being nothing for weak. NOTHING is a limitless term in this sentence, meaning that all we know is that 100 dragons would just be nothing compared to him. This quote could, and if it was about Kain, by you, would be used to say that even a 1000 dragons would be pathetic, since dragons of high numbers has already been compared to as if nothing.
4. Sargeras is not indestructable, you are right. We have seen this by Brox Ax in action. And how exactly do you know that Brox's Ax would not penetrate Kain's shield? Exactly, you have no such proof and you can know no such thing. Brox's weapon is of immortal nature and defies what elsewise should be impossible. You are using Legacy of Kain logic, so there is nothing stopping me from using Warcraft logic. But you of course will decline this, and prove that you are hypocritic. Nah, you will admit no such thing now that I have spoiled everything, but that is EXACTLY how you debate. You are allowed to deny it, but any one person on this forum can confirm this. You use fictional logic from Kain's universe but decline fictional logic from other universes. You debate as if LoK is the center of logic and the judge of what is possible and not.
As always, you are being a high-quality, grade A, prime cut, pure, blind hypocritic. The Warcraft universe can destroy the immovable (And I am not only talking about Brox's Ax). If Kain was introduced to a blue dragon, his shield would never hold. If you say it would hold against a blue dragon dispel, you, again, will bring up how hypocritic you are. Sure, I know this post is twistable in my direction, but let me tell you this: Kain's shield is like a paladin's bubble. Spoken in quote, by narrators, by official sources and proven in game to be indestructable. The only reason Kain has never had his shield fail, is because LoK lack the components to budge it. Warcraft does not. There is no such thing as an immovable object. Only degrees of endurance and durability.
5. You really are not listening. Pyron is dwarfed in power, but dwarfes them in danger. I would love to see Pyron create time. I would love to see Pyron create the skies of a planet. I would love to see Pyron create sources of limitless power. I would love to see Pyron imprison the most powerful entities in the universe. I would love to see Pyron control the concept of magic. You really do not get it, do you? Pyron could never beat the Pantheon. The Pantheon would never beat him either, because they are not like that, but Pyron lack the means to destroy them. Aman'Thul alone could make the entire Pantheon safe from Pyron for an eternity. Eonar could bring fallen companions back to life whenever she so desire. Norgannon could create forcefields of massive magnitude. Pyron may be more dangerous than them, but he is not more powerful. He is dwarfed in actual power. He would crush anyone in a matter of direct combat though.[/B]
Ime tired of your bent approach to everything to bending things in Warcraft lore to make it sound more impressive than it is, especially when not everyone has access to your source so were simply going by blind faith of you that when you tell us Sargeras can survive the sundering power explosion we belive it, but not me, ill simply ask for proof, you provide a quote that doesnt say anything about him being hit by any great force, just your assumptions. I dont think i could learn anything from you since most of your main points are assumptions from your end. But run away instead of conceding, its too obvious Team 1 wins.
1. Math fact or not, regardless they could say 1000 dragons would be nothing, but still, they do not, 100 they brought up, usually when you bring up numbers like 100, they use it as a form of impressive amount to emphasis that 100 dragons would mean nothing to Sarg, however they would mean nothing to many beings, theres no cold hard evidence that would suggest Sarg is truly over the power of Archimonde to extent he is a flea, just a hyperbolic statement since Sarg himself has shown very little in the way of actual feats to make him above in magic or anything else.
2. A flea in waht however? Sargeras chose the Eredar as the generals of his army, he may be a fool of a being but either way, he would not employ fleas, infact I think it says he was attracted by their impressive magic.
3. unstoppable Archimonde? riiiigghtt......we know how that panned out, another overhype, you like to use words to overhype your characters, mayvbe ill simply say "the Godlike Kain" to win arguments in the future...no..
100 dragons being mentioned however makes it seem that they would in theory be impressve against other forces when 100 dragons would only be imrpessive from the eyes of lesser forces.
4. I know it wouldnt penetrate because Kains magic is limitless and is powering the shield, thus its an impassable object by all logical means. Ime not using just LOK logic, ime using LOK feats of the shield and capabilties combined with overall logic in general of the real world, infnitive power in defence= infnite defence, its so simple...
No I dont debate as if LOK is the center, I simply debate that we can only use facts, facts are that LOK rules work on LOK objects, other universes rules can work on their own if you wish but only if you can prove in their unvierse they gain the powers or abilities your suggesting, you however have no ability to do this unfrotauntely.
And as always your being a grade A* weak debator in claiming something without backing it up, simply degrading someone becaus they can crush most of your points in an instant and because your almost inventing powers for your Warcraft characters. The Warcraft universe has never destroyed the imovable, no that is not the only reason Kains shield is indestructable, its because in essence he has infnite energy to manifest it, its a logical certainty that infnite power into the defence will make it invulerable, Warcraft cannot stop this.
5. create time? who created time? pyron woudnt imprison, he would pummel them into dust...Your simply describing variety, not overall power ,sure as a whole the pantheon can change life and all things like that but in pure essence Pyron could destroy and overpower any of them, Eonar couldnt do anything if Pyron put his fist through her and killed her and so eventually the pantheon would crumble.
Originally posted by Becci
[i]6. And Kain would be able to drain Sargeras.... how? I have already told you that characters far lesser than Sargeras has resisted both life and energy draining. This is even in canon, and not stupid gameplay. I can bring solid proof of this (I will not, since I have no intentions of responding to a possible response by you in this matter. Instead I will point you in the direction of War of the Ancients, Rise of the Horde and Sunwell Triology, where you will get example of both life drain and energy drain being resisted). But of course, since you will be using Kain logic, Sargeras can not possibly resist. You will completely blind your way past any proof of resistance that Warcraft characters can bring out against draining abilities, since Kain's powers are "absolute". Yet another hypocritic point of yours. While other characters would fail doing the same thing to Kain, Kain himself can do it to anyone he wishes with a snap of his fingers. And one thing above all: Kain, based on feats, is a pathetic caster compared to the majority of the significant casters in the Warcraft universe.7. This show exactly how little you know of what you talk, and this is probably the reason why people that do know about Warcraft find it so frustrating to debate you. You, once again, have made things up because it sounds most logical to you that way. The Well never exploded. It imploded, just like the portal, and the portal was supposed to crush Sargeras while doing so, but did not. You do know what crushing and implosion means, dont you? Thats what I thought. There are very few characters that can say that they survived being in the center of an energy implosion, and while the walls by all logic should have crushed me, they did not, due to my durability.
8. This is interesting. Because as far as I recall, we have never gotten proof of it being larger than Jupiter. I also recall you have tried to get proof of this, but they have failed to provide it. Yet, now, here that you debate for Pyron against Sargeras, it is all of a sudden acceptable that the planet was larger than Jupiter. This is just another example of the person currently known as Hypocrit Burning Thought. You use loose grounds when it suits your argument. Since when have you blindly believed everything Dark-Jaxx have said? I'll tell you when. Since it suited you. When have you questioned everything Dark-Jaxx have said? When it was against the character you speak for. Yes, Pyron is large, but we have gotten no proof of him being Jupiter size or larger. So quit being the desperate anti-Sargeras boy and try see fact as they are, rather than how you want them to be.
9. And your at it again. "Pyron is more than anything in Warcraft. He is automaticly enough to destroy Sargeras", well guess what. If Pyron is more than anything in Warcraft, he is more than anything in LoK and he can automaticly destroy that as well. You will, as always, decline this of course. Be my guest. My words are spoken, and if he is more than all of Warcraft, he definately is more than all of LoK. Entities of Warcraft has shown far more incredible endurance, strength, magic and intelligence feats than anyone in LoK, so by default, Pyron can not only destroy Warcraft, but LoK. This is by your logic. Sounds reasonable, doesnt it? ... ... ... [b]No
, it really doesnt. Get real! [/B]
6. Your not listening now, I said he doesnt "drain" he simply deems them not worthy of using magic, he regulates magic, he would simply order that their magic is nothing. Based on feats I should hope so since Kain has very few casting feats, but overall he would annhialte them all in his final incarnation since he has aboslute magical energy now, think of Kiljaeden only after gaining the power of Well of eternity. Kain cannot be drained because there is not a sourve to drain from, it would be like draining magic from Well of eternity and trying to drain it all when its limitless.
7. No its because they cannot provide any evidence is why they find it frustrating. Like youve shown with your "Sarg can survivie massive endurance" nonsense, the portal shows nothing of its power to crush anything. Supposed to crush him but did not, it doesnt do anything and it doesnt have any real proof on how strong the crushing impact is. Ofc i know what it means, if a rock falls on a rat, the rat gets crushed simpole, ony thing is the weight and power of the crushing object, in this case the portal is unkown if it even is devasatating.
8. No but since you yourself dont provide much proof and I dont really mind it being Juptirer sized since it doesnt damage any of my arguments for my characters we should both let it pass imo. I trust Dark jaxx on his words of Pyrons size, I dont remember denying Pyron being Juptier sized recently even against Kain, it simply is irrelvent to me.
9. No because in LOK they have the ability to stop Pyron, they have a vaster array of abilities and they have Kain, Warcraft does not. He is far beyond anything Warcraft could dish out but dimension locking, time powers and among other things like soul powers they can destroy Pyron, Warcraft spells and abilities are usually slower than LOK as well.
Originally posted by Becci
10. Malfurion did not help. Where do you get your facts from? If it's WoWWiki, I suggest you stop visiting it, because if WoWWiki says Illidan got help, whoever wrote the wiki article is lying. On the contruary, Illidan was not allowed to take part but did so anyway. He worked against Malfurion, against Sargeras, against the Highbourne, against the Old Gods. Against the Demon Soul. He was all alone. Artifactless. He had to break trough several sources to apply his weaving. And no, you are right, he did not destroy the planet. I merely said what the book said. While the planet remained, the habitants did not quite look at it that way.11. He did not break two continents apart. He caused a third of the land on the planet to crumble. It wasnt ripped apart. It just happened that two parts of land remained, forming two continents with a third resting below sea-level. It is true that Well of Eternity was the real source of the sundering, but it would not have been if it werent for Illidan. A carpenter needs tools.
12. Crushed within the imploding portal, you mean right? Yeah, that's what I thought. It is not overhype to claim that he survived being crushed by an imploding portal, because that was exactly what he did. The energies of the Demon Soul, the Well of Eternity and all the spells that were in motion compressed everything around Sargeras. The walls that closed in on Sargeras were solid, therefore making surviving the implosion and crushing a very impressive feat: "He struggled to keep the way open, the interior of the gate aflame from his titanic efforts. And then, with the demon lord still shouting his rage and beating at the walls . . .". The portal was not some mere doorway. It had turned into a shrinking cage that crushed him. Perhaps you want me to bring up the crushing part again: "The corridor between realms shrank rapidly, at last crushing in on him"
13. Unknown. There you have the magical word. How can you say it is a weak feat when it is an unknown. We know the following things: Sargeras was crushed by the shrinking. The portal held realms apart. The actual sundering was only a side-effect. Why would Azeroth be vaporized by an effect that was taking place in a different realm? When Krasus stared at Sargeras in the portal, he was looking into another dimension. To claim that Azeroth would fall victim of what happens in that dimension is illogical. And I am not comparing this to a supernova. I am comparing it to the implosion that create a supernova. The compression of a star.
14. The closing of the portal was, stated by narrator, absolute. Irreversable. Impossible to counter. Being absolute means that it can not be altered by any means, and that the result is only a matter of time. Yet, Sargeras held it open before eventually being crushed by it. Anything that has an absolute outcome is by default INCREDIBLY powerful. Yet, Sargeras for a time held this absolute power on bay. I would say that it is a little more than just an "unknown". It is an unknown with a [b]BASE
. A base sufficient enough to calculate an estimated power. Has Pyron ever tried contradicting something that is absolute? Sargeras survived an absolute compression that was brought upon him with solid walls. [/B]
10. Why it is indeed:
Azshara's battle with Malfurion threw the portal out of its magical alignment, and the vortex grew unstable. Malfurion cast a spell to create a gigantic gale that would rip all the demons from the ground and send them on a one-way trip into the Well and to the Twisting Nether. The Well of Eternity then started to collapse on itself, pulling land, Azshara's palace and the ruined city of Zin-Azshari into itself. Although Sargeras knew that the portal was closing, he tried to do the unthinkable - step into the portal to recreate it and enter Azeroth. The portal finally collapsed and trapped Sargeras in it. The Well of Eternity exploded in a catastrophic eruption that left the world sundered forever.
Sounds a lot like what you said about Sargeras as well, only WoWwiki has some more of the story so how can you claim Malfurion did nothing?
11. but as the main point of this point is, yes a carpenter needs tools, unfortunatley Illidan did not "try" to destroy the land and it was a false accident, and still the land was destroyed not just because of Illidan, the portal had its own power from Sarg and Azhera .
12. Yeh he did survive but the exact strength of the crushing is unkown, it could be wimpy or unimpressive overall for all you know.
13. Well you cannot use it if its unkown as a feat, thats why from a debaters point of view (you wouldnt understand this but here I go) its weak because it means nothing for Sarg when you dont know the specifics, thus why Sarg is weak to debate overall because a lot of his specifics are unnoted, only his "loyal fans" (naming no names) rant on about him being so great by their random assumptions however.
14. But thats the thing ,it was absolutely going to crush him and it did...so him stopping it for a moment or w/e is irrelvent. Pyron? considering Pyron is both far stronger and large than Sarg i wouldnt be surprised if that portal would be help back completly and Pyron would step through or at least hold it for longer, logically speaking but no hes not actually done it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
That they are far weaker than Sargeras. Just not ncesserily magically. Where does it say fel magic is their strongest power?I dont have to show you anything Utrigos about a gas giant sized being that could put his hand through Azeroth like it was a wet paper bag, the very physical dimension of his size and volume would imediatley be logically higher than any power on Azeroth, he wouldnt "shake" the world, thats impossible when with a tap he would crumble it. What your asking would be like me asking if you can prove a 10,000 mile wide steel ball is heavier than a paper clip....
There is some diffrence, Pyron has more power and size within him than all of Azeroth or the Warcraft universe see what I did there? it was a fine example, an example of how beings far beyond Sargeras do not need to abide by your no limits fallacy of "he is not harmed by nature magikz so he is invulerables!".
sure if the proof is provided, it sounds like an overhype, I think the impoosion of the portal closing was simply what set the well of eternity off balance which caused the sundering or so ive read before now, not the portal itself ravaging the world.
When a person is stated as a flea next to another I find it highly unlikely that they take away their greatest strength when making that comparison. Logic perhaps? The Paramount spells are fel magic in origin, before the empowerement by Sargeras, the possibilities that the Paramount Spells allows is basically limitless, but yet wasn't a possibility for the Eredar before their empowerment.
You misunderstoood completely, show me him being the size of a Gas Giant but it doesn't matter really the threadstarter has already specified that the version you and V2D are using are not the one to be used in this thread, but the one that was seen battling the Darkstalkers and he wasn't at the size of a Gasgiant. I gave you examples why the two persons you choosed too throw out was completely useless in a comparison, Galactus can drain his energy ore turn it against him also again the Power Cosmic that has shown to penetrate magical effects on various levels from near infinite sources would likely have a shoot because they have documentation of working against beings that is magical. The Living Tribunal is the most supreme sorcerer in all of the Marvel Omniverse far beyond any magic wielder in Warcraft.
And I'm sure that you can prove that right? Yeah you did nothing, because as earlier mentioned this isn't the Pyron that is the size of a Gas Giant but the Pyron that is the size of a Human.
So when the proof is provided you choose to deny it? Wonderful strategi. What part of the quote that Becci provided was so unclear that you managed to turn a simple statement completely around into that?
Becci is the greatest bucket of kickass on this side of the universe. Excuse me for saying this since I have not participated much in the conversation: Burning Thought. Despite your lovely response to her latest addition. You. Are. Beat 😛
All that remains now is to figure out how to get an autograph.
Originally posted by Utrigita
When a person is stated as a flea next to another I find it highly unlikely that they take away their greatest strength when making that comparison. Logic perhaps? The Paramount spells are fel magic in origin, before the empowerement by Sargeras, the possibilities that the Paramount Spells allows is basically limitless, but yet wasn't a possibility for the Eredar before their empowerment.You misunderstoood completely, show me him being the size of a Gas Giant but it doesn't matter really the threadstarter has already specified that the version you and V2D are using are not the one to be used in this thread, but the one that was seen battling the Darkstalkers and he wasn't at the size of a Gasgiant. I gave you examples why the two persons you choosed too throw out was completely useless in a comparison, Galactus can drain his energy ore turn it against him also again the Power Cosmic that has shown to penetrate magical effects on various levels from near infinite sources would likely have a shoot because they have documentation of working against beings that is magical. The Living Tribunal is the most supreme sorcerer in all of the Marvel Omniverse far beyond any magic wielder in Warcraft.
And I'm sure that you can prove that right? Yeah you did nothing, because as earlier mentioned this isn't the Pyron that is the size of a Gas Giant but the Pyron that is the size of a Human.
So when the proof is provided you choose to deny it? Wonderful strategi. What part of the quote that Becci provided was so unclear that you managed to turn a simple statement completely around into that?
Archimone can still be a flea in power overall but also be more powerful than Sarg magicwise.
But the pepole were irrelvent, i used them to show how beings vastly more powerful than Sarg would not be necessery, I woudlnt be surprised if either Galactus or LT could undo the resistances Sarg has and kill him with a fireball/fel blast.
well okie, the thread starter has turned this into a weaker Pyron but I would still like you to show me what makes you think Sarg can survive Pyron coming at him at lightspeed? as you prob know mass combined with that speed would make pyrons weight incredible
Ive not denied real proof, Becci proof I accepted as proof for my statement that nothing actually says Sargeras was hit by any incredible power nor the power of the sundering...
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Becci is the greatest bucket of kickass on this side of the universe. Excuse me for saying this since I have not participated much in the conversation: Burning Thought. Despite your lovely response to her latest addition. You. Are. Beat 😛All that remains now is to figure out how to get an autograph.
Shes not really, since i suppose not being a debator you would not understand but none of her points were backed up except one which had mostly things that helped my argument into knowing Sargs power is not so high, and no ime not beat since ive not conceded although its typical thig to say from a Warcraft fan who does not debate abyway and who may be a friend of Becci. Also she basically conceded in that post lol...
lol how sad.....
But ive not lost, she basically conceded in the same post and second the only person to say so is you who seems to be a massively over bias Warcraft fan....you woudlnt understand half of what I said anyway since your not a debator, all you prob know is that Becci made 14 large points to backup Warcraft which you are a fan of. Either way even if 100 people saoid Becci oints were better it would mean nothing without reasonsons why and examples, now thirdly even if people did do that, that would make anyone who says I lose because of that reason be making a fallacy.
The illusion is strong in this one. Come join me instead, together we could rule reality. Tell me, do you happen to know any high positioned people within the AC? The waiting is killing me and I kinda want a foot into the handy regions of the society. Perhaps once we have gotten to know one another, I could become your apprentice? 😄 I have always wanted to know how you can lie to yourself. I have always had such problems when I try drifting away from the truth hmm